Jamaat

[firenze]

Re: Jamaat

@stayyabali

Jammat is more liberal in term of integrity and always away from any kind of divide within ummah.

So yeh answer the questions then, well for music i can say from Junaid Jamshed he is totally opposite and think it’s haraam. So would you like to answer the rest of the one’s?

[Niksik]

Re: Jamaat

@firenze

treat me badly, nope they don’t have enough influence yet. They are belong to the corner of the chowks to stop people and ask them the First Kalima.. lol.. is it changed ?

the whole Tabiligi movement with roots to Deobandi school of thought is just sick. Number’s .. hmm.. well not precisely more then 10 i would say.

Firenze, contrary to your extreme opinion probably derived from watching youtube videos of random people, I have personally interacted with many families where husbands are very active in tableegh jamaat activities. This is what I have to say:

1. These men are not extremists. Their goal is to remind the muslims of our basic fardh. it is NOT wrong to do that unlike the progessive muslims today who believe in the philosophy of “to each their own.” It is fardh upon us to remind each other if we see someone going astray. We will be questioned about this on the day of judgement. So what they are doing is actually a very noble service to the muslim ummah.
2. They learn perserverance. All tableeghi men I know are self sufficient. They are more relaxed at home and learn to appreciate their wives better because they are reminded of their responsibilities as muslim men over and over again. Also, the fact that you do indeed get influenced by the company you keep comes into effect here as a tableeghi guy learns how other men deal with situations from the Islamic standpoint.

What I have issues with is when these men go on extended jamaats, sometimes they do not care about their primary sources of income. I know one brother who’s lost his job 2 times because wanted to gp for the 40 day jamaat and his company had to let him go as he did not have sufficient vacation time. The other thing is sometimes, these folks do not consider the problems their families might face when they are gone for so long, especially if the wife cannot drive, etc.

Now I have a problem with that, but ask the wives of these jamaatis…they are some of the happiest women I have seen. Content and secure.

[rizla86]

Re: Jamaat

@firenze

did you see a single person with different color of clothes or without having daarhi .. - jammat is like making dumb people who think darhi and having shalwar up (gangsta style) is starting of becoming a Muslim. These bunch of loony have no taste for life.. culture, music, art … well i don’t much of their beliefs.. but here is the questions:

1. what jammat think of music?

2. What jammat think of art (drawing, picture, statues..etc..etc.)

3. What is Jammat think of sex education for kids?

4. What is jammat think of camera and taking pictures?

5. What is jammat think of using internet or other means of social networking tools?

6. What is jammat think of watching tv?

Those are some views that I have an issue with too, tableeghis appear to be quite strict when it comes to these things. At the same time you don’t see people like Junaid Jamshed, Saqlain Mushtaq or MoYo refusing to be on tv. Strict, hardline Islam does not necessarily equate to preaching religious/sectarian intolerance. My boss is in fact a tableeghi guy who’s very involved, he even took a sabbatical and went on a 40 day tour with them recently but he’s a pretty cool guy who still enjoys life, watches sports on tv and is in our cricket team too. Internet is a big part of our jobs and I don’t see him having any objection to it. He encourages everyone in the office to pray in jamaat which is the closest he’s come to ‘imposing his views’ on others and even in that he’s not actually forcing anything on us.

[STA]

Re: Jamaat

agree

[PakWoman]

Re: Jamaat

The tableeghi’s are doing a great job, except they have completed separated deen and duniya. Our religion is a complete way of life thus its teaching should not exclude science and technology.
Another thing, I don’t think a group of people who preach Islam should call themselves a jamat cz it’s mandatory on every muslim to preach and spread the message of Islam. So to form a group and say we are the people to whom Prophet (p.b.u.h) left the mission of spreading Islam would be wrong. The whole ummat was entrusted with this task.

[firenze]

Re: Jamaat

@Niksik

Firenze, contrary to your extreme opinion probably derived from watching youtube videos of random people, I have personally interacted with many families where husbands are very active in tableegh jamaat activities. This is what I have to say:

1. These men are not extremists. Their goal is to remind the muslims of our basic fardh. it is NOT wrong to do that unlike the progessive muslims today who believe in the philosophy of “to each their own.” It is fardh upon us to remind each other if we see someone going astray. We will be questioned about this on the day of judgement. So what they are doing is actually a very noble service to the muslim ummah.
2. They learn perserverance. All tableeghi men I know are self sufficient. They are more relaxed at home and learn to appreciate their wives better because they are reminded of their responsibilities as muslim men over and over again. Also, the fact that you do indeed get influenced by the company you keep comes into effect here as a tableeghi guy learns how other men deal with situations from the Islamic standpoint.

What I have issues with is when these men go on extended jamaats, sometimes they do not care about their primary sources of income. I know one brother who’s lost his job 2 times because wanted to gp for the 40 day jamaat and his company had to let him go as he did not have sufficient vacation time. The other thing is sometimes, these folks do not consider the problems their families might face when they are gone for so long, especially if the wife cannot drive, etc.

Now I have a problem with that, but ask the wives of these jamaatis…they are some of the happiest women I have seen. Content and secure.

well i know two guys, one is in Brooklyn with family and he is so strict with his children about what to do, what not too.. . on top of that TV is banned at their home. Can you believe that it’s in America ?

Second guy who is over 50 now (my dooor k uncle) is so much influenced by TJ that his own children hates him for his strictness & imposing views.. he is in america too.

Now my point which i already clarified earlier that i have only one problem with these organizations that they slowly and steadily brainwashed their followers and take them to level which is known as extreme. They left them with no taste of life, they become strict and hard-core conservatives.

Here is the example:

call me liberal, listening music & dancing with my wife in front of immediate family members is fine with me, what Jammati’s think of it? If they think it’s wrong/haraam.. etc.. then i have a problem.

if Jammati’s think that women should do pardaa of face or wear burkha, well my family ladies don’t do this and consider it wrong, what jammati’s think of it? if they think i am doing wrong … well then i have a problem.

[STA]

Re: Jamaat

@pakwoman

The tableeghi’s are doing a great job, except they have completed separated deen and duniya. Our religion is a complete way of life thus its teaching should not exclude science and technology.
Another thing, I don’t think a group of people who preach Islam should call themselves a jamat cz it’s mandatory on every muslim to preach and spread the message of Islam. So to form a group and say we are the people to whom Prophet (p.b.u.h) left the mission of spreading Islam would be wrong. The whole ummat was entrusted with this task.

That is what group let people know that it is your duty and mission.
if someone is separating deen and duniya, then he really dont know the philosophy of islam.

[firenze]

Re: Jamaat

@pakwoman

The tableeghi’s are doing a great job, except they have completed separated deen and duniya. Our religion is a complete way of life thus its teaching should not exclude science and technology.
.

Thank you for saying this. That’s my point from the start the Jammati’s followers left with no taste for anything except religion, on top of that it’s their strict interpretation of Islam.

[zobia]

Re: Jamaat

firenze, do you pray 5 times a day?

[TLK]

Re: Jamaat

@firenze

1. what jammat think of music?

2. What jammat think of art (drawing, picture, statues..etc..etc.)

3. What is Jammat think of sex education for kids?

4. What is jammat think of camera and taking pictures?

5. What is jammat think of using internet or other means of social networking tools?

6. What is jammat think of watching tv?

Jamat thinks that there should be a life outside the life that relies on electricity. Abay bijli chali ga’yee tou kiya karo ge tum log

[rizla86]

Re: Jamaat

@pakwoman

So to form a group and say we are the people to whom Prophet (p.b.u.h) left the mission of spreading Islam would be wrong. The whole ummat was entrusted with this task.

That’s not what they say at all, they simply form jamaats to do dawaa in different places, it doesn’t mean it’s their birthright. Even people of different sects are welcome to join a jamaat. I have met some tableeghis from South Africa, Sweden, Bangladesh etc. at the local mosque and they all seemed like pretty nice people. Sure their version of Islam is quite strict but in my experience they have never imposed their views on me. I’ve noticed in Pakistan that there is a lot of hate towards these tableeghis and I can’t understand why, they are not spreading terrorism or intolerance, just doing Dawaa which should be appreciated.

I’m by no means a member of these tableeghis simply because I wouldn’t fit in with their hardline views but I think credit should be given where it’s due, these guys expend a lot of effort into spreading Islam, more than we ever have.

[STA]

Re: Jamaat

@TLK

Jamat thinks that there should be a life outside the life that relies on electricity. Abay bijli chali ga’yee tou kiya karo ge tum log

jammat is not responsible to issue fatwas.
jammat only purpose is to preach a beautiful religion to each human in wise way.

[fat_spartan]

Re: Jamaat

@firenze

1. what jammat think of music?

2. What jammat think of art (drawing, picture, statues..etc..etc.)

3. What is Jammat think of sex education for kids?

4. What is jammat think of camera and taking pictures?

5. What is jammat think of using internet or other means of social networking tools?

6. What is jammat think of watching tv?

I’ve never heard any of these topics covered in any of their talks that I’ve heard.

[TLK]

Re: Jamaat

@stayyabali

jammat is not responsible to issue fatwas.
jammat only purpose is to preach a beautiful religion to each human in wise way.

actually they never issue fatwas. I never heard them claiming that they are aalims. You are right about their purpose and they stick to the basics of this deen.

[PakWoman]

Re: Jamaat

@stayyabali

That is what group let people know that it is your duty and mission.

My point is they are making it another ‘jamat’ just like jamat-e-islami and others. They are just being good Muslims by preaching Islam - that should not be a criteria of being part a jamat because it’s the criteria of becoming a good Muslim for everyone. According to their ideology behind this jamat, they are the ‘preachers’, so does every muslim has to join the tableeghi jamat to start preaching Islam…?

@rizla86

I think credit should be given where it’s due, these guys expend a lot of effort into spreading Islam, more than we ever have.

I am definitely giving them credit for their work, what I am saying is for instance Zakir Naik is doing Dawah, he’s doesn’t consider himself as a part of any Jamat does he…?

[STA]

Re: Jamaat

@fat_spartan

I’ve never heard any of these topics covered in any of their talks that I’ve heard.

neither I heard any thing except hadiths on Prayer, Zikar (remembering Allah) and toheed (monotheism)

[STA]

Re: Jamaat

@pakwoman

My point is they are making it another ‘jamat’ just like jamat-e-islami and others. They are just being good Muslims by preaching Islam - that should not be a criteria of being part a jamat because it’s the criteria of becoming a good Muslim for everyone. According to their ideology behind this jamat, they are the ‘preachers’, so does every muslim has to join the tableeghi jamat to start preaching Islam…?

it is really not a jammat which you thinks.
and affiliation is not the agenda, but the message of remembering Allah, and doing good virtue and stay away from bad deeds.

[Niksik]

Re: Jamaat

@pakwoman

The tableeghi’s are doing a great job, except they have completed separated deen and duniya. Our religion is a complete way of life thus its teaching should not exclude science and technology.
Another thing, I don’t think a group of people who preach Islam should call themselves a jamat cz it’s mandatory on every muslim to preach and spread the message of Islam. So to form a group and say we are the people to whom Prophet (p.b.u.h) left the mission of spreading Islam would be wrong. The whole ummat was entrusted with this task.

I don’t think they have separated deen and duniya. Most tableeghis are professionals working in corporations at good positions. They do drive cars to works and use ATM cards. TV…now we all know how getting deeply involved with watching TV can do so some of these guys have eliminated it from their lives so that there is no chance of getting distracted. It may look like an extreme measure but will you believe it that in a 24 hour time period I watch TV for maybe 20 minutes? I don’t miss it or feel the need to have it. If these folks choose not to turn it on, and can live with it, then why not.

What these people are basically doing is using their spare time towards nurturing their own deeni foundation and then spreading it on to others. If I got an opportunity to positively impact the life of even one muslim, I would accrue so many credit points towards my hisaab kitaab on the day of judgement…but how many of us actually even TRY to do that. We have become so politically correct that we hesitate to even mention to a friend who drinks that maybe he should consider quitting…or forget a friend, how many of us tell our own siblings to add one more namaz to their schedule?

So yes, the responsibility is of the entire community but if a group has been formed for that purpose, why are we getting threatened by it?

Regarding extremism, personally I don’t know even one person out of the 40 some men we know in tableegh who are “extremists.” In fact there are many other very independent wishy washy type, keep to themselves sort of folks who have probably never accomplished anything in their lives who become extremists just so they can belong to a self acclaimed class of martyrs and make a mark regardless of how negative it is.

[STA]

Re: Jamaat

anyways, this tread is expanding. I think everyone knows.
folloiwng are six basic principles of movement.
Six Principles

Muhammad Ilyas devoted to what he described as “the mission of the Prophets (Peace be upon them)”. The method adopted by him was simple. It was to organize units (called jamaats, Arabic: جماعتِ ‎ meaning Assembly) of at least ten persons and send them to various villages. This unit jamaat, would visit a village, invite the local Muslims to assemble in the mosque and present their message in the form of Six Principles.[27]](Tablighi Jamaat - Wikipedia) Muhammad Ilyas articulated six demands in the form of Six Principles which are quintessential to Tabligh Jamaat’s teachings. These six principles are:

1. Kalimah: An article of faith in which the tabligh accepts that “there is no god but Allah and the Muhammad (Sallalaho Alihe Wasalam) is His messenger.”
2. Salah: “Five daily prayers that are essential to spiritual elevation, piety, and a life free from the ills of the material world.”
3. Ilm and Dhikr: "The knowledge and remembrance of Allah conducted in sessions in which the congregation listens to preaching by the emir, performs prayers, recites the Quran and reads Hadith.
4. Ikram-i-Muslim: “The treatment of Muslims with honor and deference.”
5. Tas’hih-i-Niyyat: Reforming one’s life in supplication to Allah by performing every human action for the sake of Allah and toward the goal of self-transformation."
6. Tafrigh-i-Waqt: "The sparing of time to live a life based on faith and learning its virtues, following in the footsteps of the Prophet, and taking His message door-to-door for the sake of faith.

[STA]

Re: Jamaat

@Niksik

I don’t think they have separated deen and duniya. Most tableeghis are professionals working in corporations at good positions. They do drive cars to works and use ATM cards. TV…now we all know how getting deeply involved with watching TV can do so some of these guys have eliminated it from their lives so that there is no chance of getting distracted. It may look like an extreme measure but will you believe it that in a 24 hour time period I watch TV for maybe 20 minutes? I don’t miss it or feel the need to have it. If these folks choose not to turn it on, and can live with it, then why not.

What these people are basically doing is using their spare time towards nurturing their own deeni foundation and then spreading it on to others. If I got an opportunity to positively impact the life of even one muslim, I would accrue so many credit points towards my hisaab kitaab on the day of judgement…but how many of us actually even TRY to do that. We have become so politically correct that we hesitate to even mention to a friend who drinks that maybe he should consider quitting…or forget a friend, how many of us tell our own siblings to add one more namaz to their schedule?

So yes, the responsibility is of the entire community but if a group has been formed for that purpose, why are we getting threatened by it?

Regarding extremism, personally I don’t know even one person out of the 40 some men we know in tableegh who are “extremists.” In fact there are many other very independent wishy washy type, keep to themselves sort of folks who have probably never accomplished anything in their lives who become extremists just so they can belong to a self acclaimed class of martyrs and make a mark regardless of how negative it is.

agree