It's No Time For Rationalizations....

[ahmadjee]

Re: It's No Time For Rationalizations....

Kaleem bhai, no one is disputing the facts but the knee jerk reaction in putting out numbers and justifying baseless actions. The discussion is about rational behind bombing trains, busses and buildings randomly. Anyone who justifies such bombing shouldn't have any problem justifying carpet bombs, heavy artillery and sanctions.

[Ohioguy]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@Lajawab

Do you remember the sanctions placed in 1992? If you count the deaths from the famine and diseases, that alone brings it to almost 2 million…

Ahmedjee…Look closely and read the figure…2 MILLION…You seem smart…Do you know how big that number is? It’s like me locking you in a cage and not giving you and your family food and medicine…Slow death…

Are you so mesmerized with the media that you can’t see?

Keep repeating it to yourself…2 million 2 million…Say it 2 million times and see how long it takes you…

Lets clear up a few things

Sanctions were the “humane” thing to do in 1992. They were touted by liberals as a viable alternative to war to remove Saddam. Even the famous Chomsky endorsed them.

You say sanctions killed two million, (a dubious number) but on any given day Saddam could have stepped down and they would have ended.

Sanctions were imposed because Saddam invaded Kuwait, and had been an agressive genocidal dictator. Have you no capability of acknowledging HIS responsibility?

What so sanctions have to do with bombs on subways?

How was Saddam able to build palaces under sanctions? What happened to the billions skimmed from the oil-for palaces program?

So what you are saying is that bombing London is understanable given the sanctions?

It is apologists like you who provide cover for todays bombers. Enjoy.

[CheGuvera]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@Kaleem

dont forget the bombing of water and sanitization system of Baghdad and then imposing sacntions which prohibited parts/machinery/technology to fix the problems. Diseases that spread because of that alon killed over 100,000.

Also plants producing baby formulas, claiming they were chemical weapons factories…

Also, the ONLY medicine plant in Sudan by ClinTon, claiming that produced chemicals which were used in chemical weapons…Sandy Bergen was embarrassed on 60 minutes when he was shown that evidence which completely refuted the absurd claim by the administration…

[LuxuryItem]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@Kaleem

I guess it really is parenting when one cannot seperate the truth from lies they get fed each and every day.

Too bad, and in your case too late. Discontinuing your Al-Jazeera subscription would be the step in the right direction.

[CheGuvera]

Re: It's No Time For Rationalizations....

^^ And Fox News in your case....

[Goliko]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@mAd_ScIeNtIsT

Muslims must condemn these acts, I agree.

But failing to understand why people would do them is to fail to be able to prevent them in future. America has been making this mistake and I hope that the UK will not.

Very well Said…this non-understanding is the cause of all misdeeds in the world right now…America is like a ill mannered cow boy…i hope britts are a bit more sane…

[Faisal]

Re: It's No Time For Rationalizations....

Its very sad to see innocent people losing their lives. Its even sadder to see justifications for the act, even before we really know who is actually responsible and what are their reasons or the message they want to convey.

But what is truly clear from this dicussion is that we are all caught up in a vicious cycle of blame.

• Lajawab blames US atrocities in Iraq to justify the bombings in UK.
• A US supporter blames attacks of 9/11 for invading Iraq.
• OBL blames US policies favoring Israel to justify attacks on 9/11
• Israel blames attacks from Palestinian militant groups to justify killing innocent palestinians
• Palestinians blame Israel for illegally taking their land to justify killing Israeli civilians

You keep on going back and you will find people going back to crusades and then to origins of Islam and the first time muslims conquered Jerusalem to create a chain of events that they will use to justify present-day violence.

Is it intelligent? It may make perfect sense to some of you, but its probably very clear to most that these are all black marks on humankind. Someone needs to break this vicious cycle of revenge if we are to take a step forward in progress and better relations amongst all people and all religions.

[LuxuryItem]

Re: It's No Time For Rationalizations....

People have no sense of proportions!

[CheGuvera]

Re: It's No Time For Rationalizations....

Nobody is justifying it.....folks are being indifferent, just as the westerners are when they perpetrate genocide and massive atrocities on other people....

[Kaleem]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@LuxuryItem

Too bad, and in your case too late. Discontinuing your Al-Jazeera subscription would be the step in the right direction.

LI, you will be surprised to know that I have never watched/listened to aljazeera, and unlike you , I listen to all of the talk heads including Michael Savage. I want to know where the venom is coming from. I dont close my eyes when confronted with a problem. I look for the cuase and try to fix it, unlike you who wants Muslism to make statements such as “we condemn these acts”. What do these statemenst mean, when they are not sincere? Exactly nothing. You want to curtail this mass killing business, fix the root cause, there is no way around it. I hope you can understand that, because even good parenting wont help here.

[LuxuryItem]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@CheGuvera

Nobody is justifying it…folks are being indifferent, just as the westerners are when they perpetrate genocide and massive atrocities on other people…

Twisting like pretzels while venting #s of past atrocities and causalities, it hardly qualifies as “indifference”. Hypocrisy, yes! Indifference? No. :nono:

[Kaleem]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@Faisal

Its very sad to see innocent people losing their lives. Its even sadder to see justifications for the act, even before we really know who is actually responsible and what are their reasons or the message they want to convey.

But what is truly clear from this dicussion is that we are all caught up in a vicious cycle of blame.

• Lajawab blames US atrocities in Iraq to justify the bombings in UK.
• A US supporter blames attacks of 9/11 for invading Iraq.
• OBL blames US policies favoring Israel to justify attacks on 9/11
• Israel blames attacks from Palestinian militant groups to justify killing innocent palestinians
• Palestinians blame Israel for illegally taking their land to justify killing Israeli civilians

You keep on going back and you will find people going back to crusades and then to origins of Islam and the first time muslims conquered Jerusalem to create a chain of events that they will use to justify present-day violence.

Is it intelligent? It may make perfect sense to some of you, but its probably very clear to most that these are all black marks on humankind. Someone needs to break this vicious cycle of revenge if we are to take a step forward in progress and better relations amongst all people and all religions.

Faisal, in order to do that one has to admit that they have made a mistake, the problem is that some people (no need to name names here) refuse to do so. You cannot move to the next stage if the person you are trying to form a relationship with will not admit to the problem.

[picoico]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@Ohioguy

Lord help me.

Exactly. Let us remain in our blissful ignorance, and blame those damn Ah-rabs. Those with red knecks must never be questioned, or question themselves!

[picoico]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@LuxuryItem

Twisting like pretzels while venting #s of past atrocities and causalities, it hardly qualifies as “indifference”. Hypocrisy, yes! Indifference? No. :nono:

So let’s get this straight…the MURDER, and BRUTAL at that, of 45 Britons is somehow unquestionably evil…and no doubt it is…but yet we’re to pretend this has NOTHING to do with the brutal murder of 30,000 or more Iraqis?

Sure…let’s just keep our heads in the sand.

These attacks are proof positive that blair and bush have made terrorism MORE of a problem, not less. Or is now not the right time to think about this?

[CheGuvera]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@LuxuryItem

Twisting like pretzels while venting #s of past atrocities and causalities, it hardly qualifies as “indifference”. Hypocrisy, yes! Indifference? No. :nono:

How is that…if we were justifying it as do the westerners…oh, we are doing for their own good, to briiing freeeedom to them, to civilizzzzzeee them…oh, its a cost worth paying a la Madelaine AllButright…Then it would be hypocracy, we are just apathetic…if indifference is’nt up your alley…

[LuxuryItem]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@Kaleem

LI, you will be surprised to know that I have never watched/listened to aljazeera, and unlike you , I listen to all of the talk heads including Michael Savage. I want to know where the venom is coming from. I dont close my eyes when confronted with a problem. I look for the cuase and try to fix it, unlike you who wants Muslism to make statements such as “we condemn these acts”. What do these statemenst mean, when they are not sincere? Exactly nothing. You want to curtail this mass killing business, fix the root cause, there is no way around it. I hope you can understand that, because even good parenting wont help here.

Kaleem,

Your penchant for AM radio windbags is noted.

And, please grow up.

[metromomma]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@mAd_ScIeNtIsT

Muslims must condemn these acts, I agree.

But failing to understand why people would do them is to fail to be able to prevent them in future. America has been making this mistake and I hope that the UK will not.

ok, so why did they do what they did today.

[CM]

Re: It's No Time For Rationalizations....

Condemn? Yup absolutely. Apologise? Kiss my arse.

[picoico]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@myvoice

^^ OK, OK. I’m convinced. All these heinous actions by western civilization justify the dismemberment of a few Londoners during their morning commute. Not only is it justified. I’m sure someone can find some Islamic scripture (or at least a mullah or two) stating that it is a Muslim jihadi’s holy duty to blow a few up. Praise Allah.

Justify? Why does poiting to the truth imply a justification of another horrible act? Is no one simply interested in a good-old-fashioned explanation anymore? No one is saying that the Londernes DESERVED it. What they are saying is that if the UK govt didn’t go off on some adventure in Iraq…what would be the likelyhood of this attack? Nada.

Oh but that’s right, it has nothing to do with Western policy. Heavens forbid we actually point out the truth that these acts are reactions, and not towards any silly global agenda which puts Wahabbist Zionst conspiricies to shame…

[Lajawab]

Re: It’s No Time For Rationalizations…

@Faisal

• Lajawab blames US atrocities in Iraq to justify the bombings in UK.
  [/list]

When and where?