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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
"and did not compromise!"
Precisely.
Egypt has peace with Israel.
Jordan has peace with Israel.
The Palestinains chose not to compromise, and in retrospect that may not have been a good decsion. They may be revered in the Muslim world for their willingness to fight without surrender, but they have ended up without a civil society, with corrupt leaders, with violent dead-end factions, facing down a superior military force daily. Now this may seem like the ultimate Jihad to you, but it appears as just butt stupid to me. If they had compromised 30 years ago, they may have had a blossoming society, peace, safety for their kids, employment, infrastructure, and a land with far fewer Jewish settlements.
So 30 years ago they were saying "What have we got to lose"? And today we see that they have lost land lost lives and lost opportunity. The Muslim world reveres them because they are stubborn. Unfortunately virtually no one would revere them as wise. They have made 50 years of stubborn miscalcualtions and they never seem to learn and they continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over.
Now don't get me wrong, at this point the Israeli's are about as brutal as your can get. But economically, socially and as a society they have won this conflict. The Palestinians have lost. The territories are trashed. Unemployment is at 50%, and the major employer, Israel, is building a wall to insure that Palestinains will not have access to the Israeli economy.
Just stupid.
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DOnt talk about Jordan, if at that time Jordans King wouldnt have existed I would have loved to see an Israel in its build up at Palestine. Read history!
Chorr kahi ke!
Talkin about Egypt, the bread of hatred for USA nr. 1 besides the Saudi ppl and others who already hate USA. But Egypt is well known for it. Just one President doesnt make the compromise situation better for them.
Hell how much they hate Amis!
The US holding up the economy of Israel? Oh please. The Isreali economy was holding up the Palestinians. The Intifada has brought the WBGS to it’s knees. Massive unemployment, economic collapse. Can you guys spell QUAGMIRE if you are not trying to apply it to the US? If a western politician brought the economy of his countries economy down 2%, you guys would be calling for his head. But Arafat throws his country into utter poverty and you guys blame the Israelis. Arafat gets a free ride. The intifada is an utter failure. The intifada is the original modern violent jihad. This is what awaits much of the Islamic world if the violence continues. Failure.
Real per capita GDP for the West Bank and Gaza Strip (WBGS) declined by about one-third between 1992 and 1996 due to the combined effect of falling aggregate incomes and rapid population growth. The downturn in economic activity was largely the result of Israeli closure policies - the imposition of border closures in response to security incidents in Israel - which disrupted labor and commodity market relationships between Israel and the WBGS. The most serious social effect of this downturn was rising unemployment, which in the WBGS during the 1980s was generally under 5%; by 1995 it had risen to over 20%. Israel’s use of comprehensive closures during the next three years decreased and, in 1998, Israel implemented new policies to reduce the impact of closures and other security procedures on the movement of Palestinian goods and labor. These changes fueled an almost three-year-long economic recovery in the West Bank and Gaza Strip; real GDP grew by 5% in 1998 and 6% in 1999.Recovery was upended in the last quarter of 2000 with the outbreak of violence, which triggered tight Israeli closures of Palestinian self-rule areas and severely disrupted trade and labor movements. In 2001, and even more severely in 2002, Israeli military measures in Palestinian Authority areas resulted in the destruction of much capital plant and administrative structure, widespread business closures, and a sharp drop in GDP. Including Gaza Strip, the UN estimates that more than 100,000 Palestinians out of the 125,000 who used to work in Israel, in Israeli settlements, or in joint industrial zones have lost their jobs. In addition, about 80,000 Palestinian workers inside the Territories are losing their jobs. International aid of $2 billion in 2001-02 to the West Bank and Gaza Strip prevented the complete collapse of the economy. http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/we.html
^^ haha, you are posting CIA link to prove your point. Like we believe everything CIA tells us. It also told us Iraq had WMDs, so I guess that was true too.
Ok fine, if you have a better source on the PA economy, let me know. Post it and discuss it. But the facts remain the same, the Palestinian economy is in tatters, massive unemployment, and no victory of the Israelis.
Palestinian economy in tatters wow these right wing amerikkans really are as intelligent as a newt!
50 years of occupation, 50 years of living without a land 50 years of living under siege what do you expect palestine to be a new china super boom economy highly unlikely!
my advice to all these right wing dimwits is to live in a prison for 50 years while hearing their families are being strip searched and shot at daily then lets see how good they can be economically!
Please enlighten us on Israel's economic resources. Where does it get all its money from? Apart from US aid, Israel has virtually NO income, when compared to oh some 10 billion dollars of aid. Without the US, Israel would fall like a house of cards.
Israels’ GDP=purchasing power parity - $120.9 billion (2003 est.)
Israel has a technologically advanced market economy with substantial government participation. It depends on imports of crude oil, grains, raw materials, and military equipment. Despite limited natural resources, Israel has intensively developed its agricultural and industrial sectors over the past 20 years. Israel imports substantial quantities of grain but is largely self-sufficient in other agricultural products. Cut diamonds, high-technology equipment, and agricultural products (fruits and vegetables) are the leading exports. Israel usually posts sizable current account deficits, which are covered by large transfer payments from abroad and by foreign loans. Roughly half of the government’s external debt is owed to the US, which is its major source of economic and military aid. The bitter Israeli-Palestinian conflict; difficulties in the high-technology, construction, and tourist sectors; and fiscal austerity in the face of growing inflation led to small declines in GDP in 2001 and 2002. The economy grew at 1% in 2003, with improvements in tourism and foreign direct investment. In 2004, rising business and consumer confidence - as well as higher demand for Israeli exports - are forecast to boost GDP by 2.5%. http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html
Israel has substantial expertise in technology, drugs, biotechnology and other industry. They are a very highly developed market economy. )Go ahead, click on the CIA link, I dare ya.) The intifada has hurt tourism, largely Christians and Jews traveling for religious tours, but over all the economy has had small setbacks from the Intifada, not a complete collapse as in the Palestinian Territories. The GDP of the combined territories is less than $2Billon. In 1948 they were rougly equal. Can you spell QUAGMIRE?
Please save yourself from further embarassment and quit while you are behind.
Just admit you are pro Israeli, rather than hiding behind a mask. At least that way everyone will know where you're coming from and give you some respect.
Pro Israel? I am far less "Pro Isreal" than you might think.
However I am vehemently AGAINST the tactics used by the Palestinians. The rationalizations I have heard here for barbaric act is stunning. The head-in-the-sand lack of accountability of Arafat to the Palestinians, and the huge blind spot Muslims have for Arafat is astounding.
Everyone conveniently has an excuse for Arafats failure. Infact, there is not a single accomplishment of Arafats that anyone would believe, yet you blindly stick by him like glue. He started up the Intifada. The PA was firmly in control, as was he. The Intifada is his baby, even though he may convenienly deny paternity. Why? He did not get the deal he wanted. He wanted more, or guys behind him with guns wanted more. He was not man enough to go back to his people and say, "This is not perfect, but we need to get on peacefully with our lives." So he figures if enough Israeli's bleed he can force them back to the bargaining table for a better deal.
But the Israeli's trumped him. They met his violence with more violence. The built walls. They built more settlements. The closed territories. They did far more than Arafat thoguht they would. His gambit failed, he is just to stupid to admit it.... So more will bleed because of his miscalcualtions.
Please save yourself from further embarassment and quit while you are behind.
Just admit you are pro Israeli, rather than hiding behind a mask. At least that way everyone will know where you're coming from and give you some respect.
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Uncle OG doesn’t not need to admit that he is pro Israel since he has already proved to be one in all of his above posts.
But Arafat throws his country into utter poverty and you guys blame the Israelis. Arafat gets a free ride. The intifada is an utter failure. The intifada is the original modern violent jihad. This is what awaits much of the Islamic world if the violence continues. Failure.
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OG, to get this right, there r no millioniar sitting on a throne in Pali. That might be the case in times of Saladin, but since then a lot of changed. The only pigs like Arafat are having a hold on the money and the rest is out of there and u should know that. Besides this ppls home are in destruction and even left empty, coz of the yrs and yrs crises.
SO does it really make sense to talk about GDPs and other economic stats, when we have other problems to solve?!
You have any suggestions to share how to stop those killings?!
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*Originally posted by sholay: *
Underthedome
If we're so great and you disagree. What you still doing here?
Obviously, you must be admiring our greatness.
Yes, I know it's hard for a die hard American like you to admit, but some of us can see right through the likes of you and your comrades!
Are you Pro Israeli?
Yes or No.
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Israel has the right to a secure state. Palestinians have a right to peace and security as well. I guess that makes me pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel. Sometimes things aren't so black and white sholay.
Israel has the right to a secure state. Palestinians have a right to peace and security as well. I guess that makes me pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel. Sometimes things aren't so black and white sholay.
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So what do you propose by your oh so simple reasoning? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Welcome to the real world buddy.
So what do you propose by your oh so simple reasoning? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Welcome to the real world buddy.
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There are plenty of threads on the conflict and opinions by myself and others on what needs to be done, do a search. Your idea that you have to hate one of the two groups in order to support the other couldn't be farther from the truth.
But Israel was a State created by the USA. Just because it was created by the States doesn't mean that it has a right to exist. If had been created on it's own merits by itself without 3rd party intervention, then by all means, yes it would have every right to exist.
When you create something using someone else's materials, then that something belongs to the someone who's materials you plagiarised. Similar to copyright law. Palestine had the copyright, but the USA pirated it's details and created something else!