Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

[system]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@mercenary2k

^^ dude, the point is, you wouldn’t like it if some people from some foreign started to come to pakistan by the millions and were soon to become the majority in Pakistan who were not islamic and replacing their culture with yours

Im sure the Canadians wouldnt like it if Pakistanis started living in Canada and eventually overwhelmed the local white population…

[system]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@mercenary2k

they should choose to convert to Islam by their own self will

If Arabs and Blacks move to europe and out breed the Europeans then that is not Europe becoming more muslim but rather an invasion

I am sure you wouldn’t like it if millions of africans started coming to Pakistan

Ridiculous… Islam will change the face of Europe more then any black or Muslim..
THERE ARE FAR MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE AGAINST ISLAM THEN THERE ARE AGAINST BROWN PEOPLE.. Europeans are a lot more comfortable with Brown christians as opposed to Brown muslims…
If you care so much about the sensitivities of the White Europeans, why would you want them to convert to foreign relgion which will change their society for ever?
Islam would do the same to Europe as brown migrants would…
And I have no problem with Africans coming to Pakistan. I have no problem with Black people (why do you have such an issue with blacks? There are other minorities in the world as well… Or are you one of those racist Pakistanis who hate people of color… ) If they are legal and they want to live and work, they are more then welcome. Our problem is that our economy really cant support such people unlike Europe however.

[system]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@ibrar1971

asalam Alaikom ppl,
what is more scary? A white indiginous revert to Islam or a 'foreign import? Islam itself should not scare anyone. I have never had my door knocked by a muslim trying to persaude me to alter my beliefs…but I along with many others have had my door knocked for years by Jehovah Witnesses. I don’t ever get angry with Christians, Catholics, Sihks etc who want to pray there way, (I even housed a Sihk woman in need recently with no expectations or financial gain) and though when asked I do explain my beliefs and feel Alhamdulillah…I know that aside from Allah (God) no-one can cause belief to enter a heart. Most muslims in Europe just do their own thing, go to school and mix, go to work and mix…its a pretty recent phenomena of rhetoric which claims there are problems with muslims being willing to integrate. The bombings have been causal of a lot of fear for even the muslims actually. I have been attacked for being muslim many times, but I never attacked anyone for not being muslim.

Thats true, although Jehovas witnesses are generally very nice people, but heck they do annoy on weekends..
I have had Muslims coming to my once in my entire life, to get people to come pray at the masjid.. But these people made sure they only went to Muslims in the building and didnt go to any Christian or otherwise doors…
That isnt to say there arent Muslim bigots…
A friend of mine who is Hindu, went with me to the house of a friend, whos mom asked him if he would consider converting for the sake of eternal paradise..

[mercenary2k]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@Captain1

Dude, counter point is, everything is done within their own laws, had they not been so open to 'immigrants' people may not have moved in such numbers, so get over "invasion".

not so. the people who moved there were mostly guest workers who overstayed their welcome and illegal immigrants who have come on boats and have had kids in Europe which gave them European citizenship

[mercenary2k]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@PaKpatriot1

Ridiculous... Islam will change the face of Europe more then any black or Muslim.. THERE ARE FAR MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE AGAINST ISLAM THEN THERE ARE AGAINST BROWN PEOPLE.. Europeans are a lot more comfortable with Brown christians as opposed to Brown muslims... If you care so much about the sensitivities of the White Europeans, why would you want them to convert to foreign relgion which will change their society for ever? Islam would do the same to Europe as brown migrants would... And I have no problem with Africans coming to Pakistan. I have no problem with Black people (why do you have such an issue with blacks? There are other minorities in the world as well... Or are you one of those racist Pakistanis who hate people of color... ) If they are legal and they want to live and work, they are more then welcome. Our problem is that our economy really cant support such people unlike Europe however.

I am just using Africans as an analogy, dont mean to be racist towards them

And personally I don't beleive you

If Karachi become a majority African city, you wouldn't like it

[Seminole]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

For people...

from a country that was founded on the principles and laws of one religion,

who do not allow those of other faiths in key government and other positions,

who experience severe divisions within their own ranks including violent sectarianism and the govt deciding exactly who is and who isn't an adherent to the faith,

where the holiest of all their places does not allow the building of a church or non-Muslims to even enter certain cities,

who abhor the hedgmony and colonization of their own lands,

that has built discrimination of others into their religious laws

... to advocate their own culture being allowed to dominate other lands (to the point of becomoing dominant) is slightly amusing if not disturbing.

[Captain1]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@mercenary2k

not so. the people who moved there were mostly guest workers who overstayed their welcome and illegal immigrants who have come on boats and have had kids in Europe which gave them European citizenship

still using their own laws, those who are still illegal can be considered as "criminals" at worst but not "invaders".

[Captain1]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

For countries which are based on "democracy", who have in past invaded other countries and enforced their cultures, who would destroy nations to enforce governance of their liking, to shove their ideology down others throats, its strange they complaint of their culture being under threat.

[Seminole]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

Open up your socieites by 3% of what the West has, and then you can make your comparisons. Either that or get powerful enough or ideals worthy enough and shove it down our throats.

[mercenary2k]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@Captain1

still using their own laws, those who are still illegal can be considered as "criminals" at worst but not "invaders".

i am sure the arabs and africans who are coming to europe are coming there for economic reasons and not there to conquer Europe

so i guess the invader term is a bit harsh

[mercenary2k]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@Captain1

For countries which are based on "democracy", who have in past invaded other countries and enforced their cultures, who would destroy nations to enforce governance of their liking, to shove their ideology down others throats, its strange they complaint of their culture being under threat.

whats so strange about their culture being under threat?

its a reality

and your analogy is flawed as well

germany committed war crimes during world war II, so does that mean that it is barred from ever criticizing any other country on its human right issues?

[Captain1]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@Seminole

Open up your socieites by 3% of what the West has, and then you can make your comparisons. Either that or get powerful enough or ideals worthy enough and shove it down our throats.

No body needs to "open up", if you can cry while being lets say 99.9999999% open then why can't I when 0.0001% open?

[Captain1]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@mercenary2k

and your analogy is flawed as well

germany committed war crimes during world war II, so does that mean that it is barred from ever criticizing any other country on its human right issues?

Try reading thread in full :)

[system]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@mercenary2k

I am just using Africans as an analogy, dont mean to be racist towards them

And personally I don’t beleive you

If Karachi become a majority African city, you wouldn’t like it

You dont need to believe me, but even if I didnt like it, I would accept it.
If Karachi did became a majority Black city, I wouldnt mind, if these people are there to work and stay out of trouble, then there is no reason why we shouldnt welcome them… So long as they are legal and they arent causing any problems for the locals such as robbing them of work etc. If we can affrod to allow foreigners into the country, even if they are to become majority, I dont see a problem, we should welcome such a multicultural society.
BTW, what sort of analogy is that? Blacks are to what, as what is to what?
I think your useing blacks as an example, but are there any other races that you would like to use as an example?

[system]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@mercenary2k

whats so strange about their culture being under threat?

its a reality

and your analogy is flawed as well

germany committed war crimes during world war II, so does that mean that it is barred from ever criticizing any other country on its human right issues?

There is nothing strange about them feeling their culture is under threat, but excuse me if I dont give two Sh1ts about their “feelings.” These countries have no right to complain considering there own track record. France, a country that raped so many of its colonies, has no right to deny foreigners, particulraly countries that suffered under their imperialist rule.

[system]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

You still havent answered my other question mercenary, why is Islam not a cultural invasion? Wouldnt the Europeans also be threatend by Islam? Your whole logic is that we should understand that they feel their culture is under threat, and yet you dont have a problem with Europeans becoming Muslims?

[picoico]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@mercenary2k

^^ dude, the point is, you wouldn't like it if some people from some foreign started to come to pakistan by the millions and were soon to become the majority in Pakistan who were not islamic and replacing their culture with yours

Okay, an invasion is not controlled. Immigration is. End of story.

Those who come to Europe do not have the right to stay there. That they stay is up to European policy...and the fact that many Europeans don't want to do the work that the immigrants do....well...I think if this is their concern then they better start 'breeding'.

[Seminole]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@Captain1

No body needs to "open up", if you can cry while being lets say 99.9999999% open then why can't I when 0.0001% open?

This sums up the philsosphy I see a lot around here:

*"You claim to be "X" but are only 99.99% "X". This demonstrates your hypocricy and gives us the moral high ground. *

We on the other hand, acknowledge we are only .01% "X", but don't claim to be "X", therefore we can gripe all day long about your lack of "X" and have the moral high ground"

Which does not take into account that it is exponentially better to be 99.99%, no matter what the claim is. The moral high ground is so far out of your reach at .01%, that you have no basis to argue from. Your time would be better spent increasing your .01% to at least 1% before b!tching about someone else.

[Captain1]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

^ all that philosophy but still, whatever your level of "moral ground" and whatever is mine, as much as it is your right to gripe/cry/whine about your (or anyone else's) fear of culture in danger I have the same rights irrespective of my level of "moral ground". After all, we are still in same country.

[mercenary2k]

Re: Israeli historian: Islam converts change face of Europe

@PaKpatriot1

You still havent answered my other question mercenary, why is Islam not a cultural invasion? Wouldnt the Europeans also be threatend by Islam? Your whole logic is that we should understand that they feel their culture is under threat, and yet you dont have a problem with Europeans becoming Muslims?

If Europeans on their own convert to Islam then it is not a cultural invasion but a cultural transformation and there is nothing wrong with that.

I agree that majority of Europe architecture, literature, philisophy is based on christianity but again if they convert to Islam then they are doing it on their own free will.

Where as millions of africans and arabs starting to move to Europe, then its not Europeans converting to islam but rather being replaced with a foreign culture.