ismaili/aga khani

[lafuriaroja]

I hope you don't take offense to any of the questions i ask, i've always been curious about the ismailis and would just like some answers. Also so you know my only experience of ismailis and interaction is in canada.

1. If the aga khan is supposed to be the spiritual leader for all ismailis, then should he not also be the most pious so that he can lead by example? For example, your current Imam, Shah Karim, has been married and divorced twice. Both times to non muslim women. I'm not saying theres anything wrong with marrying non muslim women since they converted but these women are often influential and famous women and I don't think they would really follow islam truly. It seems like they only convert for the sake of marriage but isn't it a muslim man's duty to marry a pious and religious woman to be a good mother for his children so they may be the same.

Also although there's nothing wrong with divorce if there is a good reason behind it but in islam we are also taught not to take it lightly. So why does your Imam treat it so? Also although I know his father was never an imam but wasn't Prince Aly Khan notorious for having extra marital affairs and marrying actresses ad models? again women who probably are not pious and religious at all. Hence as the imams role model he was hardly a good islamic one?

So to summarise as your spiritual advisor why does the imam not practise islamic rules even better than an ordinary person should?

1. In canada, all of the ismaili's i have met go to some thing called 'khaane' on friday evenings (i think they also go at other times but this event seems to be more special or whatever). They dress up more than people dress up for prom at these events. The girls wear low cut tops, and short dresses, tons of makeup etc., the guys wear suits. I asked them one time why they were dressing up so much (regardless of the fact that as muslims they shouldn't be prying half naked) and they said because its a social event where girls and guys often meet each other as potential b/f , g/f etc. So why is this going on?

2. Again only out of all the ismailis i know in canada (which is probably like 100 from various places in canada) all of them drink alcohol. Now i know alot of muslims drink and they're not supposed to but its not just this generation either, even their parents consume alcohol on a regular basis and their grandparents. Again i asked a bunch of my friends if they knew drinking alcohol was haram and some of them didn't know and the ones who did, said that their Aga Khan had said that it was important for them to fit into and become a part of the community they belonged to. Hence if they belong to a western community then it is ok to do whatever people in the west do. So my issue was they did not even realise or know it was wrong, and once again i received the same response from their parents

once again i hope you find none of this offensive, these are just my observations of the ismailis in canada. and i was wondering if ismailis are different elsewhere then what is the reason for the canadian (and i know a bunch of british ones too) ismailis being this way?

as such they are an incredibly tight community, they stick together, and take care of each othr. and when aga khan comes to visit , it isa huge deal for which they miss work and what not. they are also very generous in terms of charity, all good traits but none of them have anything to do with islam.

i hope you can answer my question

[a-town_boy]

I hope you don't take offense to any of the questions i ask, i've always been curious about the ismailis and would just like some answers. Also so you know my only experience of ismailis and interaction is in canada.

1. If the aga khan is supposed to be the spiritual leader for all ismailis, then should he not also be the most pious so that he can lead by example? For example, your current Imam, Shah Karim, has been married and divorced twice. Both times to non muslim women. I'm not saying theres anything wrong with marrying non muslim women since they converted but these women are often influential and famous women and I don't think they would really follow islam truly. It seems like they only convert for the sake of marriage but isn't it a muslim man's duty to marry a pious and religious woman to be a good mother for his children so they may be the same.

Also although there's nothing wrong with divorce if there is a good reason behind it but in islam we are also taught not to take it lightly. So why does your Imam treat it so? Also although I know his father was never an imam but wasn't Prince Aly Khan notorious for having extra marital affairs and marrying actresses ad models? again women who probably are not pious and religious at all. Hence as the imams role model he was hardly a good islamic one?

So to summarise as your spiritual advisor why does the imam not practise islamic rules even better than an ordinary person should?

1. In canada, all of the ismaili's i have met go to some thing called 'khaane' on friday evenings (i think they also go at other times but this event seems to be more special or whatever). They dress up more than people dress up for prom at these events. The girls wear low cut tops, and short dresses, tons of makeup etc., the guys wear suits. I asked them one time why they were dressing up so much (regardless of the fact that as muslims they shouldn't be prying half naked) and they said because its a social event where girls and guys often meet each other as potential b/f , g/f etc. So why is this going on?

2. Again only out of all the ismailis i know in canada (which is probably like 100 from various places in canada) all of them drink alcohol. Now i know alot of muslims drink and they're not supposed to but its not just this generation either, even their parents consume alcohol on a regular basis and their grandparents. Again i asked a bunch of my friends if they knew drinking alcohol was haram and some of them didn't know and the ones who did, said that their Aga Khan had said that it was important for them to fit into and become a part of the community they belonged to. Hence if they belong to a western community then it is ok to do whatever people in the west do. So my issue was they did not even realise or know it was wrong, and once again i received the same response from their parents

once again i hope you find none of this offensive, these are just my observations of the ismailis in canada. and i was wondering if ismailis are different elsewhere then what is the reason for the canadian (and i know a bunch of british ones too) ismailis being this way?

as such they are an incredibly tight community, they stick together, and take care of each othr. and when aga khan comes to visit , it isa huge deal for which they miss work and what not. they are also very generous in terms of charity, all good traits but none of them have anything to do with islam.

i hope you can answer my question

alright, i know exactly what you r talkin about but i must say that it's your bad luck u didn't meet the type of ismailis you were supposed to. ismailis in canada are of gujarati heritage and even i, as a ismaili with little knowledge don't consider them to be real ismailis. i think they create nothin but misconceptions about the ismaili aqidah.
**
Answer to question no.1 :** first of all, after getting married to the imam, both his wives led simple and pious lives. u won't find any wrong news about them. secondly, you can tell from the simple lives of imam's children that they were brought up well so imam didn't make bad decisions when getting married both times. thirdly, imam's both wives objected about the imam giving his time more to the jammat rather than his family. so they asked for divorce and imam didn't refuse. simple as that. u say that imam takes divorce lightly.. i'm sorry but divorcing both his wives doesn't mean he takes it lightly, it can also mean they took it lightly..
**
Answer to question numbar 2:** what the ismailis referred to as khaane is actually JAMAT KHANA. it means a place of gathering for the jamaat. it's simply mosque. we pray three times a day everyday in jamat khana and on friday evenings, it's special as friday is more important than other days for all muslims. but it doesn't mean u can wear the type of clothes ismailis in canada wear ( the ones you mentioned). our imam has a clear farman for wearing simple clothes when going to prayers (covering every part of body appropriately as islam teaches us). if the ismailis in canada don't follow what the imam says, that's not the imam's fault is it??? he simply guided them but they didn't follow so for them is Allah's azaab on qayamah. and NO, going to jamat khana is not a social event. jamat khana is purely for religious purposes (for prayers). *outside jamat khana, you can meet your friends just lik u can do outside masjid.. n people who say that they can find their potential b/f or g/f after jamat khana, i say LANAAT OF ALLAH upon them for going to jamat khana with that niyyat (intention). we go to jamat khana to get close to Allah but these people have made it a place to socialize. what can the imam or i do about it when they themselves don't listen to what the imam says.. again, for them, awaits the azaab of Allah on qayamah.
*
Answer to question number 3: drinking alcohol is haram for ismailis just like it is for other muslims. and again, NO, the imam has NEVER EVER told us to drink alcohol. probably, the people u know made things up in their favor. imam has told us to ALWAYS remember our islamic ethics while living in the west. imam has always said that we are muslims first and other identities come afterwards. so that means we can't skip what islam tells us to follow the norms of the society. ismailis of northern pakistan, tajikistan, and other parts are what i call ismailis. gujaratis, or "KHOJA"as we normally call them, are just ismailis by birth and name in my or any sensible ismaili's view.. they hav no knowledge of deen. but again, there r some exceptions of gud khojas.

i think all my answers should be clear enough but if u didn't get any of my points then plz, do ask again n again until u totally get what i'm sayin. thank u.

[inuit]

Re: ismaili/aga khani

^^
Question: what are the teachings of Ismaili faith about Islamic Hijab for women?

[CheGuvera]

I refuse to believe anybody who runs and owns race horses to be part of a chain of imams going back to Ali (RA)...This is a profound insult to Ali (RA) and an outright transgression...

[CheGuvera]

there's nuthin wrong wid sayin ya ali madad.. ismailis, shias, sufis and many sunnis also say it.. only wahabis don't say it.. wahabis don't even say ya muhammad madad.. as far as salam is concerned, ismailis and all other muslims can say salam to anyone, even non-muslims because salam means invoking peace on others.. so in short, ismailis say both salam and ya ali madad. also ya allah madad and ya muhammad madad. Allah made prophets and imams as waslia for us so there's no harm in sayin ya muhammad or ya ali.. even Prophet S.A.W said ya ali madad at the time of ghazwa-i-uhad...

Yeah and why don't you and your ilk say ya muhammad madad....why is it always ya ali maddad...does ali take precedence over muhammad or even Allah...

Those not peddling shirk, consider only Allah capable of helping them...not humans...hence the aversion to saying ya muhammad, ali, aga khan, donkey buried at clifton mazar, maddad

[a-town_boy]

@inuit

^^ Question: what are the teachings of Ismaili faith about Islamic Hijab for women?

hijab is just cloth. as far as purdah is concerned, it should be observed covering all parts as taught by islam.

[a-town_boy]

I refuse to believe anybody who runs and owns race horses to be part of a chain of imams going back to Ali (RA)...This is a profound insult to Ali (RA) and an outright transgression...

what's wrong wid owning n runnin horses??? Rasool (S.A.W) and Ali (A.S) used to earn horses too. u can go run horses..so???

Yeah and why don't you and your ilk say ya muhammad madad....why is it always ya ali maddad...does ali take precedence over muhammad or even Allah...

Those not peddling shirk, consider only Allah capable of helping them...not humans...hence the aversion to saying ya muhammad, ali, aga khan, donkey buried at clifton mazar, maddad

first of all, our imam has a farman in which he has told us to recite Ya Allah, Ya Muhammad and Ya Ali whenever we get time so your allegation that we only say ya ali madad is completely WRONG thank you very much.

secondly, if sayin ya ali madad was shirk then why did Huzoor (S.A.W) say ya ali madad during ghazwa uhad????

thirdly, we do not ask for madad from any baba shaba.. maybe you do it but i don't.. so stop assuming stuff..

[inuit]

hijab is just cloth. as far as purdah is concerned, it should be observed covering all parts as taught by islam.

I think the dictionary meaning of "Hijab" is not "cloth". It is something else please check, and comeback with correction. thx

our imam has a farman in which he has told us

Question: please dont take it as a harsh question:

could you please recommend any source from where we can get the farman of your imam. or you just making-up by yourself. i dont believe in it without any authentic resource. maybe he have an official website or office phone number or a book of Farman of present imam. other then that, anybody can show him as his representative without documented proof.

[a-town_boy]

I think the dictionary meaning of "Hijab" is not "cloth". It is something else please check, and comeback with correction. thx

i know what hijab means. it means "to cover" or "curtain" . for ismaili women have to cover everyting except face, hands and feet. and we stress more on inner thoughts, meaning we hav to keep pure intentions n not hav bad thoughts in our minds..

Question: please dont take it as a harsh question:

could you please recommend any source from where we can get the farman of your imam. or you just making-up by yourself. i dont believe in it without any authentic resource. maybe he have an official website or office phone number or a book of Farman of present imam. other then that, anybody can show him as his representative without documented proof.

i think u havent been payin attention to my posts, so i will tell u again that there's a book of faramns of our imam. u can find them easily wid the local council of your city.. n as far as i remember, they said the farman i mentioned above when i went to jamatkahana the last time. don't believe me, go check it out yourself from ismaili council.. and don't forget to ask about the farman u don't believe in. ask about it especially..

[inuit]

@a-town_boy

i think u havent been payin attention to my posts, so i will tell u again that there's a book of faramns of our imam. u can find them easily wid the local council of your city.. n as far as i remember, they said the farman i mentioned above when i went to jamatkahana the last time. don't believe me, go check it out yourself from ismaili council.. and don't forget to ask about the farman u don't believe in. ask about it especially..

I believe in you, thx

[Jafri]

Re: ismaili/aga khani

I have Ismaili neighbors and when a relative of theirs had died we asked if we could come to their mosque for the namaz, majlis, whatever you do for it but they told us Non-Ismailis cannot go to the mosque. Why is that?

[a-town_boy]

I have Ismaili neighbors and when a relative of theirs had died we asked if we could come to their mosque for the namaz, majlis, whatever you do for it but they told us Non-Ismailis cannot go to the mosque. Why is that?

well, i haven't heard any farman of our imam about not allowing non-ismailis into jamat khana but i guess the reason might be that we say the names of not just hazrat muhammad (S.A.W) and hazrat ali (A.S) but also our imams (A.S) during our D'ua (namaz).. i don't think any non-ismaili would want to say that they believe in our imams.. so i guess that's he main reason.. other reasons include trouble-making ppl especially guys.. but i guess u can visit jamat khana at other times.. i would personally like to take non-ismailis on a visit to any of our jamat khanas..

[Anil_Khan]

Re: ismaili/aga khani

a-town, what is your ethnicity?

[Jafri]

well, i haven't heard any farman of our imam about not allowing non-ismailis into jamat khana but i guess the reason might be that we say the names of not just hazrat muhammad (S.A.W) and hazrat ali (A.S) but also our imams (A.S) during our D'ua (namaz).. i don't think any non-ismaili would want to say that they believe in our imams.. so i guess that's he main reason.. other reasons include trouble-making ppl especially guys.. but i guess u can visit jamat khana at other times.. i would personally like to take non-ismailis on a visit to any of our jamat khanas..

I'm Shia, I understand having the first 12, or first 5(?) for you in namaz but do you include the names of Agha Khan?

[inuit]

Re: ismaili/aga khani

^^12rs do not include the names of 12 imams in namaz. however they recite Darood like other muslim brothers.

[Jafri]

Re: ismaili/aga khani

I am aware of that. I meant as in after tasbeeh before the next namaz like zuhr - asr we read duas.

[a-town_boy]

I'm Shia, I understand having the first 12, or first 5(?) for you in namaz but do you include the names of Agha Khan?

yes, we hold all the imams to be wasila in our namaz.. don't u???

[a-town_boy]

a-town, what is your ethnicity?

i'm a paki munda.. :D that's what i consider myself... i don't go into the punjabi , sindhi, balochi, pathan kind of details....

[Anil_Khan]

@a-town_boy

i'm a paki munda.. :D that's what i consider myself... i don't go into the punjabi , sindhi, balochi, pathan kind of details....

i asked because you refered to some ismailis as 'gujratis' or 'khojas' so i was wondering how are u different from them?

[Jafri]

@a-town_boy

yes, we hold all the imams to be wasila in our namaz.. don't u???

We don't include the names of Imams IN namaz. I mean we have the Aliyyun Waliullah in azan and sometimes dua during namaz which contains the name but other than that, sujood, rukoo, everything has nothing. We only contain Prophet Mohammad (saw) and Allah (swt) in namaz..