ismaili/aga khani

Society Religion & Philosophy
61

I can't post the whole book, can I? You'll have to buy the book and study it.

Anyway that suggestion was for others.

My first question to you.

Do you believe that Quran was time bound and its message was not meant for all times. And that your leader Karim Aga Khan is "the walking talking Quran"?

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that was pretty rude... nyways.. u said that imam ghazali has refuted the ismailis completely... u could at least share some of his refutations wid us can't u???

The Holy Quran is not time bound.. it's message is for all times..the interpretation can be different for different times.. like Allah S.W.T has told us in the holy quran to keep your horses well-fed so that they can be ready to fight the non-believers.. is that to be taken literally for today's time??? the interpretation is different for today.. so many things in the Holy Quran have to be interpreted differently according to the needs of the time...

and yes, according to Prophet's (S.A.W) hadith that Ali (A.S) is quran-i-natiq or "talking quran" , we do believe that since Ali's A.S imamat is passed on to his successors, the knowledge of interpreting quran is also passed on..

next question plz...

63

no not yet....the last para is not clear to me. What Prophet(SAW) said was about Syeddena Ali[ra] only. You can pass imamat to syeddena Ali[ra]'s successors but you can't pass his knowledge and character to anyone.
imamat is a rank that can be passed to others but intelligence and knowledge and goodness of character can't.

Besides, I've never heard "talking Quran" term but I'm only aware of "bab ul Ilm" (door to knowledge) or "city of nowledge" about Syeddena Ali(ra).
Also, one cannot interprete Quran without having the deep knowledge of hadith and sunna.

64

well, the light or noor of imamat passes from one imam to the other so does the knowledge of understanding of the holy quran.. an imam does not hav to learn to interpret the quran.. he already knows it.. Ali's (A.S) character is a physical aspet that cannot be passed on but knowledge of quran is somethin that is passed on wid the imamat.. that's the whole point.. imam is a spiritual guide in the matters of religion.. so he already has the knowledge of the Holy Quran when the noor of imamat is passed on to him..

i don't remember the reference of hadith about talking quran but u can ask the shia members on gupshup.. they will give u a reference for sure.. 100%

u say that one cannot interpret quran without knowledge of hadith n sunna???? who told u that?? The Holy Prophet (S.A.W) has a hadith in which he says that if we hold on to the QURAN and his (S.A.W) AAl(meaning progeny) then we'll never go astray.. this hadith clearly mentions the holy quran n ahle bait.. now u can go on n put sunnah instead of AAl, we all know that's been CORRUPTED just like hundreds of other ahadith in bukhari n muslim...

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Q: it means if a christen or a hindu or a sikh is physically clean. you can eat from him; whether he touchs his body parts like hands or feet with the food items. like roti and/or samosa such as bakery etc. question end ]

--- please consider following while answering --

physically clean means : (no blood, no mud, no any other impure thing on his body)
a muslim person after Wudhu is considered "pure"/clean/"Paak"; even if his body is sweting. no matter how much he is sweting.

as per religion; The method of wudhu is defined by Prophet Muhammad, and Niyyah and there are certain prayers to recite to become Paak/pure/clean.

just taking bath. washing face, hands and feet without niyyah and prayer makes our physically clean but it does not mean that we are religiously pure/paak.

thx

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[quote=“a-town_boy, post:2, topic:204855”]

hazir imam A.S is a graduate of harvard university.. heres what i found out on the internet.. The Āgā Khān spent his childhood in Nairobi, Kenya, where his early education was done by private tutoring. His grandfather, [

I think you have the SAME believe in Quran as i have.

I believe Quran has ALL knowledge. If a person LIKE Prophet or Imam understand the whole Quran. It means he have All knowledge. not only religious. It has every thing like physis, chemistry, history etc etc but me and you cant understand it. Yes Imam can understand. and get the required information from Quran.

Question; What do you think; do your imam still need to goto a university or a college for education, when he already have knowledge of quran naturally. I dont think so. ?](“Aga Khan III - Wikipedia”)

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question to think about.. hmm.. well, i believe that we can eat from the hands of non-muslims.. but not if they hav touched their feet.. ewwww.. if they hav touched the food wid their hands only n their hands r physically clean, then yea.. why can't we eat from their hands..given the food is HALAL.. i don't think there's a law against eating food cooked by non-muslims..

n yes, niyyat n prayers are for inner cleanliness.. we hav to hav pure intentions before starting prayers.. agreed.. we can ask God to help us cocentrate on salah rather than bad thoughts.. as far as i believe, we can even do the niyyah in urdu or whatever language coz Allah S.W.T doesn't need us to just say the niyyah in arabic...

The Hi/Bye Thread
68

So you are using a hadith to prove that you don't need hadith to understand Quran.....funny.

Can you provide a reference from Quran that proves that an Imam or leader of the muslims doesn't need to learn Quran because he already knows everything???

Timepass - October 2013
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ANSWER: well, the imam needs to go to a university to learn other things like current world affairs, geography, languages n other subjects.. n plus i don't think the entire islamic history is in the Holy Quran... so he can learn all that too rite.. Holy Prophet S.A.W has told us to get as much knowledge as possible... do u agree??

Purana Khataa
70

Re: ismaili/aga khani

Please define the basic creed of the Isma'ilis here ...

Big Boss 7
71

You are right, The Holy Prophet (PBUH) told US to get as much knowledge as possible. but not the Imams. He never asked Imam Ali (AS) to learn from other places. On the other hand Ali (AS) had a Ilm-e-laduni (knowledge from God) - He and so as other imams never went to any institute to learn the knowlege from others. All they got from the single source.

Plus Quran has the information of everything in it.

Quran Says:
Wa-la ratb-in wa-la yabis-in illa fi kitab-il mubeen
Not a thing exists on land and water, except it has been in the book.

Question: When knowledge of EVERYTHING is (hidden) in Quran. Why your present time Imams went to universties and college to get the knowledge of OTHER THINGS.

Please note:

EVERYTHING includes (1) Current world affairs, (2) geography, (3) languages n other subjects. (4) entire islamic history. There should be an imam how has the POWER OF KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTAND who can extract the knowedge of all these subjects FROM QURAN by the GRACE of Allah the Almighty.

thx

72

sure, if u want a reference from the holy quran then heres one.. theres a famous ayah in surah yaseen (the heart of quran) which says " Wa kula shaiyin-ah saiyna hu-fi imam-um-mubin" translation: aur hum ney tamam cheezen imam-i-zahir main samo dee ain, means we have bestowd everything unto the imam of the time".. this is clear that everything(that we need for guidance) has been bestowed upon imam-i-zamana by Allah S.W.T..

what now???

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**
i would request u to read my post completely before replying.. thank u**

ok i'm a little confused.. u said that Ali (AS) had a Ilm-e-laduni (knowledge from God).. that's 100% rite.. but brother, it's a fact that Hazrat Ali (AS) used to study physics, math, n science... now don't say he didn't learn worldly knowledge... he was called the gate of the city of knowledge for both spiritual n physical knowledge..

n u said that the holy quran has EVERYTHING it n that EVERYTHING includes (1) Current world affairs, (2) geography, (3) languages n other subjects. (4) entire islamic history.
can u tell me where in the holy quran we come to know about the current affairs of pakistan or lets say bhutan for example.. or where in the quran is it mentioned that the rockies r in north america???it's an example of ulema exaggerating the meaning of verses of the holy quran.. When Allah S.W.T says that the holy quran has everything in it, it means everything that we need for guidance..

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the basic creed of ismailis is the kalima-i-shahadah.. n in islam, as we belong to the shia sub-group, allegiance to the imamat to imam Ali (A.S) and his successors is also included..

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Yes ! You are right, but i dont want to make you confuse. I am trying to make easy to understand again. If you still have any confusion please feel free to ask the specific point.

When we say "ilm e laduni" (knowledge from God) there is no "but"after that, because there is nothing outside of it. Even "wordly knowledge" is also included in it. Imam Ali (AS) since he is the gate of city of knowledge and had "ilm e laduni". He already the knowledge of math and physic and other science subject. You might say; that he never taught these subjects to other people in detail. this is because people were not at that level. It was people deficiency not Imam Ali 's (AS).

As a follower of Ismaili faith I think you also believe that Quran has two means one is Zahiri and the other is batini. and i heard a hadith of Rasool Allah (PBUH) that there are 7 hidden meanings of quran. These meanings are not only guidance but all the knowledge is in it. including physics, math, current affairs etc etc. But we as people dont understand. Only the Rasool and Imam can understand. and Imam have the complete knowledge of Quran. not by learning from somewhere else but Allah made him like that. he dont need to learn from others. If you say it is only guidance, then its not only the guidance in religion but its the guidance and base knowledge of every other subject. Imam is the person who holds this.

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ok so ilm e laduni includes everything.. rite.. i didn't know that.. but again i'm confused about one thing.. so i'm askin u... even if the holy quran has seven layers as Huzoor's (S.A.W) hadith, how could have someone known through the holy quran that musharaf and zardari were goin to be pakistan's presidents.. i don't understand this part..

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Over discussion on this specific point is almost done with the answer of your question which you asked me above. First i will write the question and then i will write the answer.

Your Question:

how could have someone known through the holy quran that musharaf and zardari were going to be pakistan's presidents.

My Answer:

You used the word "someone". which is pointing towards me and you and people like me and you. but not the Rasool (PBUH) and Imam (AS). You as per your Ismaili faith do not put all the human being in one category in the sense of knowledge.

Obviously general public is far less knowledgeable then Prophets and Imams. You can say that its hard (not impossible) for a person from general public to know through Quran that who will be the president of a country. but for Imam because of his ability of knowing Quran to all of its depth of knowledge he can tell. plus he has the Illim e laduni, which i should say the quran itself.

Your questions "how the imam will tell". because general people dont have the knowledge of

HowTos about quran. I am one member from general public. I cant tell. It is the Khasa (specific) to Imam. Only he knows "How to know from Quran". But we cant say that "he cant tell".

They did not tell because we did not ask.

If You believe that your present Imam does not have the ability of understanding quran to its deepest Knowledge level. It means he cant foresee things. If he sees the world with the knowledge of quran and knowledge he have learnt from universities and colleges. This makes no differents beween me and you and a common person. as me and you can makes mistakes in understand same way your imam can make mistake too.

you know lack of knowledge is one of the cause of making mistakes.

Now My next question:

what is the difference between a common person and your Imam who gained wordly knowledge to understand the world affairs and foresee different up-coming issues. ?

thanks for understanding my questions and replying in a timely fashion.

78

Re: ismaili/aga khani

^The concept that Imam or Prophets had "all knowledge" may be a good for pride but has no factual basis. Other than a few anecdotes of dubious authenticity where Imams have answered few questions relating to Mahs and science there seems to be no indication from their day to day affairs that they knew everything including quantum physics and automobile engineeering or software programming.

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But that ayah is about the deeds of people being recorded in a Clear Book. It doesn't talk about an imam having all the knowledge of religious issues or guidelines.

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u take the meaning of imam-um-mubin to be clear book.. i take it by it's real meaning which is zahir imam... u can put all explanations that your ulema tell you are right in front of me to prove that imam-um-mubin in this verse means clear book, but to me it's always gonna be ZAHIR IMAM.. thank u.. n btw, i asked u for a few refutations of your "imam" ghazali which u didn't present..