Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
The Prophet used mangonels against the population of Taif. Mangonels dont discriminate between women/children and fighting personel either.
There is no such thing as innocent israelis. There may be innocent jews, MAY BE. But definetly no innocent israelis.
Sorry to bother you guys, but can someone explain the bolded part to me.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Minime
we can open a different thread on the topic ofthe armies of the 'muslim' countries, or as I call them, muslim majority states. I think that can be an interesting discussion.
Now getting back to the topic which has to do with outfits like hizbollah or hamas. How can you ignore God's commands on war and call yourself a soldier of faith.
Isn't it more like using religion as a battle cry because anyone who objects can be branded as a traitor, a kaffir, a zionist or whatever. So use religion as the battle cry however the methods, approaches and everything are completely counter to what religion preaches.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
The very basic job of those "groups" would be to establish a Islamic state before they can start jihad on other entities.
[quote]
It makes me sad when i hear the term "suicide bombings" from my own intelligent brothers & sisters in Islam. Those who truely believe there's actually suicide bombing in Iraq or Afghanistan etc. Please provide me an eye witness proof, the person who actually saw someone with bombs and later blew himself in public. Do you actually believe, a person who suffering and going through the same pain as others, would go and blow himself and harm his own brothers & sisters? How do the media or anyone else find out that where ever a bomb blasted, it was a suicide bomber? as far i can think of, two cases pops uo in my mind
1- Someone actually saw the person, someone who looked suspicious and later a bomb was balsted at that place
2- They just make up the stories and generalize the idea
[/quote]
Its okay to use "husn-e-zan" (benefit of doubt) but its bad to shut eyes from real problems. Suicide bombers are not new phenomena, even Pakistani army used these tactics against India in 1965 (?) war. People have been caught with bombs packed on their belts, carrying bags etc. Look at the incident of Nishtar Park in Karachi, there are many other examples, but the question is: Are you willing to accept that there are problems in Muslims? Are you willing to accept the corruption in moral values among Muslims? If a "Muslim" can kill his own family member for property issues then he can do anything to achieve other aims as well.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Its okay to use "husn-e-zan" (benefit of doubt) but its bad to shut eyes from real problems. Suicide bombers are not new phenomena, even Pakistani army used these tactics against India in 1965 (?) war. People have been caught with bombs packed on their belts, carrying bags etc. Look at the incident of Nishtar Park in Karachi, there are many other examples, but the question is: Are you willing to accept that there are problems in Muslims? Are you willing to accept the corruption in moral values among Muslims? If a "Muslim" can kill his own family member for property issues then he can do anything to achieve other aims as well.
Brother, it's not that i don't understand the problems Muslims have or don't want to accept those problems but why do we forget the fact that most of thinsg have been exaggerated
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Nobody is forgetting the exaggeration factor, may be 4 out of 10 are actual suicide bombers, but the question remains why do we have even those 4? and on top of that they are supported by some good number of population so it shows that those 4 were not "isolated" incidents.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
That’s ridiculous. I stopped reading the thread right here.
So, lajjo, someone rapes your family members, does that mean you have to now go and rape the same number of females in the opposing side of the fight?
Please think before you post.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
in today's examples it would be someone bombing some military installation, and some shots go wide and hit a closeby housing complex. which is different than attacking a broad area which has commerical, residential, educational facilities just because. At its worst its flagrant violation of God's words about sanctity of human life, and at best its is gross negligence in terms of planning and execution attacks considering what weapons you have available.
you still did not answer ths question..what would you consider an israeili newborn, whether arab muslim, arab christian or jewish. what has this child done to not be considered innocent?
So, women and children were attacked. Of course, killing the women and the children isn't the primary aim...but knowing that women and children are behind those walls, those walls were attacked. And the other point today is, if muslim rulers had not sold their souls to the devils, and the muslim armies were decent enough to stand up for their brothers and sisters in Palestine, Iraq and else where...the Jihadi organizations would not have taken such extreme measures.
As far as young children are concerned, yes they are innocent...they are even born muslims, but that doesn't change anything. I think we all saw the pictures of israeli children writing hate-filled messages on those missiles, but thats besides the point since that is just a case of hatred being bred into them by their seniors.
If anything, the children killed..do go to heaven...which is much better than living a life of kufr and going to hellfire.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
God's laws are not meant to handicap Islam
You buy all the muslim rulers and control their armies, then
You invade muslim lands, and then
You tell your puppet governments in muslim nations not to interfere in our affairs..
All muslim countries abide,
The general public in the muslim countries gets very angry and frustrated and want to do something...A handful of people do rise up, to inflict harm on their people, anything that would make the enemies think twice about continuing their invasion.
But they get told noo you cannot, because Islam prevents killing of "innocent".
Let me tell you one thing. Islam doesn't allow you to sit back and watch the show either. Thats a much bigger sin.
It doesn't work that way. You think you can fool muslims by using the laws of Islam against them, iam sorry..it doesn't work that way. And yeaa, the Mujahideen have the scholars of Islam with them, whose guidance has been guaranteed by Allah...and they understand the deen much better than we do. We need them..they dont need us.
Let me quote an analogy by Malcolm X here..
"When a snake bites one of your kids, you dont go looking out for a snake with blood on its jaw...Any other snake would do. Any other snake!"
As far as innocent israelis are concerned..
All israeli families living in israel are occuping land and property that doesn't belong to them, and hence all of them are people of war, against whom war can be waged.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
so killing children is a good thing then in your view?
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
walls are a fort which is a military installation, apartment buildings are not. if yo attack a military base where there are civilian workers or soldiers families that get in the cross fire that is still a sad los fo life but is very diff than attacking civilian apartment complexes.
and to the point about muslim rukers and what nots, please start a diff thread. Lets not go on tangents here.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
so basically you are sticking to your point that all Israelis are fair game.
I am glad that there are other muslims in the world and on this site that think otherwise.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Killing children is not a good thing. But you dont really have any other option.
And the thing about muslim rulers, is NOT a different a topic, and is something that is related DIRECTLY to this issue at hand. Let me give you an example...when you have a muslim state supporting and engaging in Jihad, you have something like Kargil. When you dont...you have something like modern day Iraq.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
"When a snake bites one of your kids, you dont go looking out for a snake with blood on its jaw...Any other snake would do. Any other snake!" .
Guy was a genius!!! Beautiful..
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
I think one should look at himself and his lifestyle before calling others misguided.
And since when did having a Khalifa become a requirement for jihad?
Anyways, now the discussion is really going on a tangent. No point in arguing and debating, it wont lead anywhere. Iam out..
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
what a pathetic reply.. he said **Concept of “JIHAD” **not “RAPE” … always try to read what other person is saying instead of taking things out of context, Einstein.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Actually I think she was right on target. Lajawab was trying to explain the concept of Jihad and he obviously failed to do so.
Rape was used as a tactic of terror by the Serb forces against Bosnian Muslims. By using Lajawab’s definition, Bosnian Muslims should have raped Serb women in retaliation.
Sharaabi, I don’t anything about Fraudz or your personal or religious life, but from your statements on gupshup, I at least know that you support the murder of innocent children. That is truly misguided. May Allah guide you and everyone to the right path.
And to declare Jihad, I believe one must be the head of an Islamic state.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
You buy all the muslim rulers and control their armies, then You invade muslim lands, and then You tell your puppet governments in muslim nations not to interfere in our affairs.. All muslim countries abide,
The general public in the muslim countries gets very angry and frustrated and want to do something...A handful of people do rise up, to inflict harm on their people, anything that would make the enemies think twice about continuing their invasion.
But they get told noo you cannot, because Islam prevents killing of "innocent".
Let me tell you one thing. Islam doesn't allow you to sit back and watch the show either. Thats a much bigger sin.
It doesn't work that way. You think you can fool muslims by using the laws of Islam against them, iam sorry..it doesn't work that way. And yeaa, the Mujahideen have the scholars of Islam with them, whose guidance has been guaranteed by Allah...and they understand the deen much better than we do. We need them..they dont need us.
Let me quote an analogy by Malcolm X here..
"When a snake bites one of your kids, you dont go looking out for a snake with blood on its jaw...Any other snake would do. Any other snake!"
As far as innocent israelis are concerned..
All israeli families living in israel are occuping land and property that doesn't belong to them, and hence all of them are people of war, against whom war can be waged.
Thank you for your reply, so in your opinion i can bend the rules of Islam anytime i want, if its to kill the infidels?
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
*I think one should look at himself and his lifestyle before calling others misguided. *
good point, to some extent all of us are misguided, but then are we not supposed to speak up against injustices? I see ainjustices being carried out in the name of my faith and am speaking out. This does not mean I am some perfect muslim. if the prerequisite to point out issues was perfection then we would not have anyone saying anything would we now..
*And since when did having a Khalifa become a requirement for jihad? *
for personal jihad i.e. improving oneself not at all, but for jihad as in a holy war, thats what some scholars say, you may want to go tell them that anyone can start a 'jihad' anywhere at the drop of a hat.
*Anyways, now the discussion is really going on a tangent. *
agreed, and that is why I have been trying to contain it to the topic at hand rather than go into tangents that threads go into when people dont have answers.
No point in arguing and debating, it wont lead anywhere. Iam out..
Def led me somewhere and probably readers of this thread as well.
Thank you for your participation, and farewell. we will continue to discuss the thread amongst the rest of us.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
You buy all the muslim rulers and control their armies, then You invade muslim lands, and then You tell your puppet governments in muslim nations not to interfere in our affairs.. All muslim countries abide,
The general public in the muslim countries gets very angry and frustrated and want to do something...A handful of people do rise up, to inflict harm on their people, anything that would make the enemies think twice about continuing their invasion.
Isn't it general public's responsibility to remove such "puppets"? In fact, the governments are representations of general public. By representation I didn't mean a "democratic process" as such.