Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Thats the Jewish way of war. Muslim conduct of war is clear. No non-combatants should be harmed. No populations should be destroyed.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Thank you my friend.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Your perspectives and knowledge would be appreciated.
My opinion is that since these groups are Muslims they name their groups as "Islamic", but their method and "bone-of-contention" may not necessarily be based on "Islam" i.e. geo-politics. They rationalize their actions in bits-n-pieces and get approval from clerics. Since they are fighting who are "hated/despised" by Muslims in general/clergy etc they get the approval and clergy closes eyes. I do not mean to say that all Islamic groups are that way but a big bunch is, for believers its like shining sun but for murky eyes it become dark/grey. .... This again is based on my observation of groups and is my opinion. Allah swt knows best.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Those who have knowledge about the concept of Jihad should know well that Jihad is not sanctioned at an individuals' authority. It has to be sanctioned by the Islamic state as they are responsible for the welfare of the people they rule not these Yahoo groups who are Islamic militant groups (even though they may be voicing genuiine concerns but they are not allowed to undermine and jeopardize the authority of the state). As muslims we know Allah grants victory to the believers when they fight in Allahs cause. If they are such righteous believers then where is the victory.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
By that token everyone who voted for Hizbollah is not innocent, and everyone who voted for the Israeli govt is not innocent. Right?
To me it does not appear right, otherwise you are saying that the innocent ppl dying on both sides are actually combatants since they voted for these groups and thus particpants.
Even if we take this theory to be true (which I am completely against) how do weapons differntiate between a voting adult and a child?
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Few points .
1- Is there any group doing jihad/qitaal on strict islamic principals? if not what about the hadith that jihad will continue for ever?
2-As some one mentioned that in present day warfare it is very difficult to protect the innocent ( this in no way mean that delibrate killing of innocent is allowed)
3-Defination of innocent, who are innocent who are not?
In my opinion for example Indian civilians are innocent/israeli jews are not
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
And also,
At a time where all the muslim governments and their armed forces are mere puppets, being controlled by Western powers, this is the only way to fight the battle against the evil.
You cant expect a couple of hundred mujahideen, with homemade weaponry, to take on the coallition forces of the some of the most advanced nations head on in a battle field.
It doesn't..
They'd be casualties of war..
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Is there an Islamic term for "collateral damage"?
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
A victory which you are looking for is not "guaranteed" to believers, however they are guaranteed a place in Heaven and that my friend is The Victory.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
*At a time where all the muslim governments and their armed forces are mere puppets, being controlled by Western powers, this is the only way to fight the battle against the evil. *
so we are changing the ruling or its application based on circumstances? do God's laws and statements stop being valid?
*You cant expect a couple of hundred mujahideen, with homemade weaponry, to take on the coallition forces of the some of the most advanced nations head on in a battle field. *
I also dont expect them to kill children, or lob rockets into known civilian areas, or to pull what the Chechens did in Beslan.
They'd be casualties of war..
its as repulsive whether it is innoent Iraqis dying due to sanctions or war, or innocent lebanese dying of air strikes, or innocent israelis dying of rockets.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
At a time where all the muslim governments and their armed forces are mere puppets, being controlled by Western powers, this is the only way to fight the battle against the evil.
Then the first duty of Muslims is to establish an Islamic state in their country.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
You are right. In the sense of worldly victory, Allah will not grant it to us without any trials first. Just look at the difficulties that the Muslims had to go through before victory at Badr.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Correct. I agree with that. However if our conduct is in line with the Islamic principles Inshallah we will also have wordly victories provided we have not fought for a wordly victory.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
No, muslims will not be fooled into this. God's laws are not meant to handicap Islam and its movements.
The Prophet used mangonels against the population of Taif. Mangonels dont discriminate between women/children and fighting personel either.
There is no such thing as innocent israelis. There may be innocent jews, MAY BE. But definetly no innocent israelis.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
what would you consider an israeili newborn, whether arab muslim, arab christian or jewish. what has this child done to not be considered innocent?
and mangonels were used against a fortress, apartment buildings of civilians are not fortresses.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
^ there would be women, children and elderly living inside those fortresses.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
right but when you use mangonels, the basic target is the walls of the fortress so you can get in, shots do go in and hurt people, but the target is the fortress walls.
in today's examples it would be someone bombing some military installation, and some shots go wide and hit a closeby housing complex. which is different than attacking a broad area which has commerical, residential, educational facilities just because. At its worst its flagrant violation of God's words about sanctity of human life, and at best its is gross negligence in terms of planning and execution attacks considering what weapons you have available.
you still did not answer ths question..what would you consider an israeili newborn, whether arab muslim, arab christian or jewish. what has this child done to not be considered innocent?
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
These are my understanding and may not be correct; however, I infered these from my own research on this topic.
The ruling stays the same. The combat must be with those who fight against you. You do not hurt children, women and elderly. Their sympathies with your enemy just mean that you should make sure that they do not come in front of you as enemies. The elderly and women of Kuffar-e-Makkah were also with their soldiers at the time of battles.
As long as it is done on the soldiers and alliances of soldiers and those who openly oppose you. Sirayaas were the 6 [or 7] guerilla warfare from Muslims before Bad’r as well… they are perfectly fine because it is proven through the sunnah of the prophet:saw:
un-Islamic
Now, many a times, even I agree to the cause of such groups but do not agree their methodology. I do not approve them to be killing civilians and doing suicide bombings. If it is inevitable to do a suicide bombing, it needs to be done on army of the enemies and not civilians and by inevitable I mean there is no choice left for suicide itself is considered haraam but in situation of war, it is not suicide, it is sacrifice. Like remember the 600 tanks entering in the border of Pakistan in 1965 and how they were dealt with
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
Asslam-U-Alikum
There's no doubt that Islam prohibited killing innocent civilians. The people who have hatred in their hearts for muslims, or make plans or wishes to destory muslims or encourage and participate in prapogandas that harm muslims can't be considered innocent civilians or friends of muslims. Islam tells us to fight against those people (this also inculdes, the so called our "moderate" muslims brothers and sisters who blindly follow the media). At the time Fateh Makaah, it was a different story. Indeed Prophet (SAW) laid a best example for us how to forgive our enemy.
I agree with brothers/sisters resposnes that there should be an Islamic government who should support and send its own military to fight against kafirs because that's the true jihad is. But why do we forget we don't have an Islamic government and most likely it doesn't seem we'll have one untill the return of Hazrat Imaam Mehdi (AS) (Allah knows best). Therefore, someone or maybe some groups have to come forward to perform the duty of jihad but they have to do it Islamically.
sory off topic:
It makes me sad when i hear the term "suicide bombings" from my own intelligent brothers & sisters in Islam. Those who truely believe there's actually suicide bombing in Iraq or Afghanistan etc. Please provide me an eye witness proof, the person who actually saw someone with bombs and later blew himself in public. Do you actually believe, a person who suffering and going through the same pain as others, would go and blow himself and harm his own brothers & sisters? How do the media or anyone else find out that where ever a bomb blasted, it was a suicide bomber? as far i can think of, two cases pops uo in my mind
1- Someone actually saw the person, someone who looked suspicious and later a bomb was balsted at that place
2- They just make up the stories and generalize the idea
No answer these logically
For the first case, if a person found someone suspicious, he would directly report to the security staff or warn other people (it's obvious during the war time and as these kinds of cases happens every day). Has that happened in the past? Now, we've an eye witness but i haven't seen or heard about one since all these incidents. Plus how logically it make sense that a person just comes in public and blow himself without anyone noticing him when everyone is cautious and security staff is alert.
I don't want to go in details regarding the 2nd case.
Re: Islam, War, Militant groups .. some quetions
There is only one army at this time which is serving its real purpose, protecting not only the boundaries but protecting the faith as well. This is what a real army is meant to do. First, you declare that all the people who follow your faith are directly or indirectly citizens of your state and then you use the army to protect them. Once you have an army, a reservist army, like that you will fight to the last man standing, because it’s not just your country you are defending but rather your faith. For an army like this, you won’t need a proxy guerilla out fit to do your dirty work. Because each and every step will be protected not only under the auspices of a modern state defending it self but rather by the religion as well. So you can never go wrong in the eyes of the majority of your religion's followers.
Now totally the exact opposite is going on for Muslim so called Ummah. Millions of armed men under the control of few generals, totally disassociated with the concept of protecting Muslims and even with the concept of protecting the physical boundaries. The armies in mostly Muslim countries are there for one purpose and one purpose only, to protecting the ruling elite so that they can govern in peace. There have been some cases of “foreign” attacks but that would be an exception. The regular “mulsim” armies will only act when there is more than usual street anger building for the massacre of Muslims, these same Muslim armies will start supporting proxy guerilla warfare, in Kashmir, Lebanon, Afghanistan, and Philippines. But non will commit for a direct warfare, since there is this fear that the “state” would collapse. Again the state has become a separate entity in its own self using the army to protecting it self and not the faith or the people.
So the question is, are these armies serving Islam or Muslims, or are these armies serving Islam or Muslims by causing and waging proxy wars? Your questions, Fraudia has no bearing on the current situation, Islam does have guidance for war, for that you have to have an army protecting Islam and Muslims first. The armies of Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt are just there to protect its citizens, and not to protect Muslims per say out of its boundries. Outfits like Hizballah and Hamas are just the victims of Mulsim armies as were the Afghan Mujahideen, waging limited warfare on the hope that regular armies will protect or join them. You are right, they should not claim that they can protect muslims since they dont have the ability to do that. But, they do that out of thier conviction and believe that the real purpose of the army is to protect muslims. We ask so many questions of these out fits, since they have stated openly that they will protect the Muslims, but we ask no questions about the armies who have deserted Muslims time after time and even stabbed Muslims in their back in broad daylight. I think its time that we should start thinking in broader terms, what is the role of our armies in protecting Muslims? Is the modern Muslim concept of army serving its purpose? What are the chances of a reservist army in Muslim countries? Until, we don’t have an army protecting muslims, there would be outfits like these crying out loud and making us look at the status of the Muslims worldwide.