Re: Islam in Pakistan
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That leads to a bigger problem. For someone say to another that "that is not islam" requires an assumption that they know what it is. To know what it is not, presumes that.
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It's not on an assumption but comes along with my belief system. Now Allaah is given the guidelines to know what Islam is simply because Allaah created us, now go on to say its an assumption its wrong but its a fact recorded in the Quran.
Now how i do it is left upto me you cant look at an individual to know what is Quran, now suppose if someone is a robber and a muslim and you say all muslims are robbers and its due to Holy Quran is wrong.
They are certain things which i believe in and obviously you have a different belief system the world can only live when we tolerate each other not throw tantrums at each other showing extremism.
Like communism started of as a noble cause e.g. the re-distribution of wealth when everyone in the world was talking about distribution of wealth. But after a while it turned out to be extremism instead of something which it was destined for so the keyword is TOLERATE, now i say this is the ISLAM because its mentioned in the Quran unless and until someone comes with a new version of Islam.
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That is why the concept of prescriptive, directive and ideological religion is simply a figment of imagination made up for mullahs imams maulvis islamics islamists jihadis whatever you call yourself, simply to make people give you money, sometimes worse.
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1) Tariq i do not go to any mullah for any teaching, i do my own learning,try to analyse it and then i understand. For me mullahs, imams maulvis, islamic jihadists and whaterver you cal yourself **might be **making money whatever there intention is but I have the Holy Quran to teach me.
Like in my days of atheism i used to Question, criticise the Quran at times pass on comments like if Allaah is there let him come down ignore the concept of hell or heaven.
But after my epiphany each and everything i thought wrong about islam proved to be false some out of reading with **SINCERITY, **and others after my experience, this certainly made me realise Islam is a true religion. Praise be to God it took me around 1.5 years after constant reading i knew Islam is the truth.
Now as i have quoted you an example you cant see these maulvis, jihadist and say this is true Islam nor anyone who drinks, performs adultery and comes up and says this is True Islam this is extermism in the name of Islam.You wanna know Islam read the Quran.
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When zawahri or bon aden say they're aganst amreeka, they call it their islam.
Whem you proclaim that this what quran says or that, that's simply no differen from zawahiri or laden saying that.
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Now i have quoted an example above guess what this was before i could read the above quote because once you start with these kind of debates you end up talking about OBL.
Now regarding this issue, there is a verse in the Quran which says dont kill any innocent human its like killing the whole of human kind.
Now if they call this is Islam then what is the verse of the Quran. Islam doesnt mean you leave out these verses of the Quran and accept only those verses which fills our own ulterior motives. You take up Islam with a complete package and accept it as a belief system.
This can be done with sincerity in heart and fear, love, towards God.
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Since the distinction between various crooks has faded, islam to survive in any legal form has to:
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I agree with you completely on this aspect. Let it be when we are over here we are trying to learn something rather than to bicker which ends up as a no result coz pre-meditated thoughts is something which i dont adhere to.
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1) define itself thru updated modern day ways, including language that ppl understand.
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Now you provide just one e.g of pakistan thats there problem, but if you read the history of Islam they have been scientists and there books were followed until 19th century to say modern ways is left upto an Individual not call it Islam.
To call Islam takes you backwards is wrong, what about the muslim colleagues I work with arent they believing in what i believe and we do our work equally with the same zeal.
Those days the madrasas were a learning center for learning Islam, science,math no wonder the European Michael Scott translated some beautiful work of most of this and had this published in Europe in the 14th century.
So blaming Islam for it is stupidity and rather ignorant, without trying to learn the history of Islam.
2
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) It has to give up untenable, silly and downright uncivilized practices such as polygamy, the concept of "allowed / not allowed' references and judgemental fatwas, the concept of kufir, the concept of "one single way to practice and yes, even the concept of religion over state. State law is unequivocallly superior to sharia. It has to proclaim that
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I have answered this in my rebuttal just before this quote above and how fantastic as an athiest I also believed in the same.
1) Untenable i dont think so, silly its your perspective and downright uncivilized pratices its cultural so dont mix it with religion its leads to stupidity. Its like when I was in India all the indians muslims used to tell me all pakitanis are bad, they are robbers I met them and it's different now.
Issue about Polygamy: Now let me just ask you, if this issue of polygamy if wasnt present in the Quran would you still accept Islam in totality (here i am assuming you reject such verses, though i dont know your intention).
I dont wanna delve on this topic as the post will get unduly bigger.
Issue about allowed/not allowed/
Now let me quote you an e.g.
Consider Quran = Legal law book of a country
Islam = Country
Muslim = Citizen of a country
Now i as a citizen of a country (muslim) create nuisance in our country (Islam) and i am being punished accordingly by looking at the references as given by the legal law book (Quran) now where am i wrong.
Judgemental fatwas i dont agree if its stupid without deriving through the legal law book (Quran) and the some understanding of this law (Sunnah).
The concept of kufr
Now this is damn stupidity to the core, now what is a kafir someone who doesnt believe who is a disbeliever according to the context of the Quran. Now this kind of dualism of Believer and Disbeliever is there in every part of the world
Like a christian and a non-christian, jew and a non-jew, hindu and a non-hindu, now to say only Islam is got this has no logical significance and i throw it to the bin
Issue of One Way of life/State law equivalent to Sharia
Now since I live in INdia, i know India as a country where it allows me to practice and preach my religion. In that course I am abiding by the state law and lead my life as good muslim and be tolerant and patient.
But if its a muslim country like pakistan, its left upto the government.
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3)No amount of change will enable survival unless thinking, freedom of speech and education (real, not rote recitation of quran) are stressed
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Exactly regarding education you have to read the Islamic history to know more (its just in the past couple of centuries) as well as Prophet also stressed on this point of education, rote learning will go no where.
Survival unless thinking exactly God is made the humans in that way and i agree completely.
Freedome of speech: Now this i leave you to define, according to you what is your definition of freedom of speech.
Coz i can define freedom of speech as calling anyones Mothers/sister by any name being virulent with them and still no country will harm me and if someone does i take him to task
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I don't thinlk muslims really comprehend how bad it has become. Radical surgey required.
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Exactly if we muslims would have comprehended we would have been out of the difficulty we are into now. The last centure is wehre we have lost the plot. But i hope things will change and I also believe this is the divine will of Allaah (Thats not an excuse not to learn but what i believe in).
Radical survery or surgey if its a survey its not going to help either, you will only get to know the facts nothing will be put into practice unless people want to learn with sincerity.
Unless people realize Quran is a book to be understood, and not recite, Quran is a book to be practiced and not recited and Quran is not only to the Mullahs to explain but for each and every individual who believes in the Quran.
Here again i can remember of the Great Muslim scientists how well they balanced there life.
