ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

[queer]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

The non-Muslims need to operate in accordance with their own rules and methods and likewise there is an ethical ground here. And to welcome repentant people is the higher ideal even if there is a paranoid risk of them doing something.

higher ideal. pray tell, how many of the poor pakistanis tricked into being drug mules for saudi sheikhs are forgiven instead of being beheaded? where is your fairytales on forgiveness in such genuine cases of trickery and deceit? there have been over five dozen such cases this year. but ISIS scum is who you wish to cry your heart out over.. why?

[hareem01]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@Balthier

Please, pray tell, who is equalling IS in their hatred? And that was some statement by you, sure you don't want to retract it? Seriously do you know the crimes of IS, and the mindset of the jihadists who went to support IS?

No, most people in this thread, who are not mourning the death of these vile individuals, but do feel sorry for their families, actually want societies based on tolerance, peace and respect for human beings, regardless of their national and religious background. Completely opposite of what these jihadists want. We even tolerate their hate-filled speeches, because we believe in freedom of speech.

These jihadists follow hate-filled people like Anjem Choudhary, and completely are for violence and brutality, as long as it serves their twisted agenda. Why would we want these type of people living in the same nations as us? So they can make life harder for us and our families, by spewing hate and call for violence? No thanks. These people are one of the main reasons why hatred against common muslims is on a rise. They are on a mission to destroy our societies from within.

Then they went to fight a war, which wasn't quite what they thought it would be, and ended up getting killed in the process. You won't see me shedding tears for them.

Would they shed tears for the ones they went to kill? You reap what you sow. What sort of mindset and values do you think they would have brought back to the societies they left? Why would those societies want these type of values and mindset? You are talking as if these people went to hand out balloons and flowers, and never were a major problem for the nations they left to participate in warfare.

Its kind of ironic that you are calling for non-muslim nations to rehabilitate these people, when no muslim nation would ever try to rehabilitate "enemies of Islam", ie people who openly and continuously criticize Islam in muslim countries.

I didn't call for anyone's rehab...merely stated a fact. Don't get all shasavera on me.

[hareem01]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

Thanks to some of the posters for totally not understanding my point purposely, and rather trying to twist and distort my words.

All I said was this, ISIS killed 100 members because they didn't want to fight anyone other than Bashar's army (and most likely other pro-Bashar groups too). And I don't agree with those who are supporting or approving ISIS's decision when in some Western countries (I think Denmark had some rehab talk going on) they're thinking about rehabilitating and approaching the jihadism problem in a very humane way while in Muslim world all I see is people calling for bloodshed.

There's a research done in UK as to why these people join jihadi organisations and it was revealed that they saw acts of barbarism done by Bashar's army so they wanted to take revenge.

Of course, Islamic code of war stops us from seeking revenge through killing or harming anyone even during a battle. But these people are unaware of such teachings. And majority will probably stay unaware.

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@Shamraz_Khan

psyah, would you like to volunteer to mentor returning jihadis? B/c if you are I say go for it, but if jihadis come back & start beheading people, like the guy who beheaded British solider in London, you and other Muslims in Europe should be ready face the backlash.

What backlash? "Oh they said to do it ... kill them too!!!" If this is what society has come to - then I will die to defend the opposite ... We need to bring sense back to humanity ... and if it means facing criticism then so be it, if it means being blamed for being nice then so be it ... I do not bear the burdens of the acts of another - whether others think that of me or not is up to them ... but this is why we need to start teaching critical reasoning and ethics to people ...

[Balthier]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@hareem01

I didn't call for anyone's rehab...merely stated a fact. Don't get all shasavera on me.

I see, instead of actually bothering to read my post, and refuting my points, you're just going to take the easy way out. Fact is that the whole essence of your argument in this discussion has been that we should try to rehabilitate these people, by applauding the decision of non-muslim countries who have said they are willing to try that. All the while you know perfectly well that no muslim nation in the world would ever try to rehabilitate people who have openly and continuously condemned Islam. And they would justify any violent punishment of such people, by quoting the Quran and hadith.

@hareem01

There's a research done in UK as to why these people join jihadi organisations and it was revealed that they saw acts of barbarism done by Bashar's army so they wanted to take revenge.

By conducting acts of barbarism themselves (just not towards who they deem as muslims)? Once again, do you know the mindset these people represent? You really don't get this, do you, or perhaps you are not willing to get it, because the majority of muslims in muslim nations, for example think its perfectly fine to behead apostates? And you don't see such a violent mindset as problematic? Where do you think the violent nature of terrorists stem from?

The problem isn't only what they went to Syria for, the major problem is their mindset, and calls for violence toward muslims and non-muslims alike. Have you ever interacted with one of these sick jihadists?

@hareem01

Thanks to some of the posters for totally not understanding my point purposely, and rather trying to twist and distort my words.

Pray tell how we are supposed to interpret this statement of yours? Who was eqaualling IS in their hatred?

@hareem01

For me people equalling ISIS in their hatred are no better than ISIS.

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@Balthier

Actually, people in the European societies are already showing kindness to these type of people, by giving them freedom of speech. Even if their speech is full of hatred and call for violence and brutality. That's the sort of freedom they would never enjoy in any muslim country in the world. Many of these jihadists are living on welfare provided by our tax money. Who much more compassion should we show to people who want to destroy the very fabric of our societies from within?

Religion is not the answer to everything. One of the reasons why muslim countries are struggling in almost every field, and are falling farther behind to their western counterparts, is because many muslims unfortunately think that everything should start and end at religion. Which is a mindset that has brought muslim nations to a never ending spiral of lack of compassion for fellow human beings. How many muslim nation are there, where human rights are not violated on a regular basis? Why are so many muslims flocking to kufr societies? Religion is a matter of spirituality and a should be a deeply personal issue. Furthermore you don't need to be religious to be a good person.

Btw, for the record, I was not unkind to them, ironically their own kin was, for the very same reasons they wanted to be unkind to others (treason/apostasy).

Freedom of speech is not kindness ... It is merely stirring up of a storm ... When I mean nice - I mean treat them as equals, treat them in a way that secure's their safety and if their own acts - such as "their words" will cause them harm ... then they should be subdued for their sakes ... I'm not a supporter of freedom of speech for the sake of it ... if it turns out that any hate is going to cause harm to greater society then it should be curtailed ... Instead the Europeans (British in my experience) get all of this messed up and end up causing more problems.

And on the contrary ... I am a purist ... I do believe true religion - or rather sincere faith is the answer to everything or at least it opens the door to the answer for everything that matters in this world.

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@Balthier

People complain of Islamophobia being on a rise, without comprehending that people such as these jihadists are the main reason why some people are so ardently against Islam, which again sadly results in rise of hatred towards the common muslim.

People like these are given a platform that should never be given to them ... I despise the methods of the modern media and how they pursue the sensational ... That is the first thing that needs to stop in "free" societies ...

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@queer

higher ideal. pray tell, how many of the poor pakistanis tricked into being drug mules for saudi sheikhs are forgiven instead of being beheaded? where is your fairytales on forgiveness in such genuine cases of trickery and deceit? there have been over five dozen such cases this year. but ISIS scum is who you wish to cry your heart out over.. why?

Well I am not as well informed as you queer brother ... If that was the case then I believe justice needs to prevail everywhere ... you know me by now I do not exercise double standards - yet you always accuse me of that ... ISIS scum - could potentially become better people - they could turn over a new leaf ... The poor people beheaded for crimes they did unwittingly is a sad and sorry situation ... the fact that drugs are even being made for sale is a sad and sorry situation. The reason why the poor are that poor that they need to become mules is sad and their ignorance is sad and the lust for material gain in this world is sad that people will put others and themselves in to harms way for it ... All of this is sad queer ...

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@Balthier

I see, instead of actually bothering to read my post, and refuting my points, you’re just going to take the easy way out. Fact is that the whole essence of your argument in this discussion has been that we should try to rehabilitate these people, by applauding the decision of non-muslim countries who have said they are willing to try that. All the while you know perfectly well that no muslim nation in the world would ever try to rehabilitate people who have openly and continuously condemned Islam. And they would justify any violent punishment of such people, by quoting the Quran and hadith.

By conducting acts of barbarism themselves (just not towards who they deem as muslims)? Once again, do you know the mindset these people represent? You really don’t get this, do you, or perhaps you are not willing to get it, because the majority of muslims in muslim nations, for example think its perfectly fine to behead apostates? And you don’t see such a violent mindset as problematic? Where do you think the violent nature of terrorists stem from?

The problem isn’t only what they went to Syria for, the major problem is their mindset, and calls for violence toward muslims and non-muslims alike. Have you ever interacted with one of these sick jihadists?

Pray tell how we are supposed to interpret this statement of yours? Who was eqaualling IS in their hatred?

You’ve sort of agreed with hareem01 in an arguing sort of way …

[Jack_Sparrow]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

Good riddance. Someone who signs up to kill innocents (whatever the motivation might be) does not deserve a second chance.

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@Jack_Sparrow

Good riddance. Someone who signs up to kill innocents (whatever the motivation might be) does not deserve a second chance.

They didn't sign up to kill innocents - if they did they would still be there and not killed ... ISIS would not kill people who are aligned with their agenda ... they are mad but not that mad.

[Med911]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

There was report today on NPR on Yazidi women being sold like cattle in modern day slave auctions. The IS pigs and anyone associating with them deserve the worst punishment here and in the here after. They are vile and evil. Even Asad is preferable.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@psyah

Well I am not as well informed as you queer brother ... If that was the case then I believe justice needs to prevail everywhere ... you know me by now I do not exercise double standards - yet you always accuse me of that ... ISIS scum - could potentially become better people - they could turn over a new leaf ... The poor people beheaded for crimes they did unwittingly is a sad and sorry situation ... the fact that drugs are even being made for sale is a sad and sorry situation. The reason why the poor are that poor that they need to become mules is sad and their ignorance is sad and the lust for material gain in this world is sad that people will put others and themselves in to harms way for it ... All of this is sad queer ...

brother I don't know what you are on about. punishment is there for a purpose, ie to deter people from committing crimes. we can see the punishments Islam has laid down for various crimes, how can one forgive mass murderers? if murderers and rapists are allowed to freely roam around like this I am afraid my friend we are going towards a bigger abyss (anarchy). most of the people with criminal back ground sooner or later start doing what ever they had been doing previously. recent example is the Sydney hostage taker.

[picoico]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

and how will you screen the returnees for actual reason for return? how do you verify they themselves werent killers?

Good points, but is this really such a unique situation? There are hoards of former war criminals crawling around Serbia...and yeah, guilty of ISIS-like crimes from sex slaves to mass murder....well, the Serbs had concentration camps too...dunno if ISIS did that. The point is, when we think of Serbia we think of a pretty clever tennis player now days. Go on...you can book a vacation right now, and apparently it's a pretty nice place.

Then there was Rawanda...South Africa...

The point is Queer....been there, done that. I don't have direct answers to your questions, but it is done. Perhaps not now, for iSIS, but all it does take is a change of leadership that sings a more tolerable tune, and all of a sudden you will see all is forgiven.

Second, the Nazis....they really were the kings. How were they treated?

I AM beginning to see a trend here. Children of a lesser God, perhaps?

How 'bout we let those in the know just fall back to the law, and tried and true measures?

Looking at Japan and Germany, it kinda works. Contrast that to the failed "war on terror", of which ISIS is a *direct *result...

[picoico]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@Med911

There was report today on NPR on Yazidi women being sold like cattle in modern day slave auctions. The IS pigs and anyone associating with them deserve the worst punishment here and in the here after. They are vile and evil. Even Asad is preferable.

Preferable?

Assad is in the same ballpark. Hell, he's on the same base as ISIS. Less evil, yeah maybe...preferable? Never.

[OYMWA]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@hareem01

....Don't get all shasavera on me.....

lol

[queer]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@picoico

Good points, but is this really such a unique situation? There are hoards of former war criminals crawling around Serbia...and yeah, guilty of ISIS-like crimes from sex slaves to mass murder....well, the Serbs had concentration camps too...dunno if ISIS did that. The point is, when we think of Serbia we think of a pretty clever tennis player now days. Go on...you can book a vacation right now, and apparently it's a pretty nice place.

Then there was Rawanda...South Africa...

The point is Queer....been there, done that. I don't have direct answers to your questions, but it is done. Perhaps not now, for iSIS, but all it does take is a change of leadership that sings a more tolerable tune, and all of a sudden you will see all is forgiven.

Second, the Nazis....they really were the kings. How were they treated?

I AM beginning to see a trend here. Children of a lesser God, perhaps?

How 'bout we let those in the know just fall back to the law, and tried and true measures?

Looking at Japan and Germany, it kinda works. Contrast that to the failed "war on terror", of which ISIS is a *direct *result...

i dont know what you are trying to say here. serbia is fit for tourism today, sure. does that mean milosevic should have been appointed your kids' school principal? or should he have been behind bars until death (like he was) even if he sobbed and apologized?

let the law take over? of course. this was the law in the land they chose to go to.

[picoico]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@queer

i dont know what you are trying to say here. serbia is fit for tourism today, sure. does that mean milosevic should have been appointed your kids' school principal? or should he have been behind bars until death (like he was) even if he sobbed and apologized?

I'm not talking about the one or two blokes that were prosecuted...I'm talking about the Serbian foot soldiers who committed the atrocities. They are free...they were never prosecuted. They were never rounded up. It IS an open secret who they are. That was deemed the cost of peace, I suppose.

There is a very direct parallel to be drawn between the two conflicts.

Again, the point is we're not in a unique situation here. In all cases I can think of, foot soldiers who were a part of a nation/army/ethnicity who committed atrocities were given amnesty and the leadership was prosecuted.

Extending that to ISIS, simply being a member does not necessarily preclude amnesty.

Now, at this point in time, I don't support that, as I mentioned above. I do prefer prosecution. But amnesty is not at all a cooky idea...worse people have been let go.

[queer]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

i dont see why the serbian foot soldiers guilty of massacres should be spared either.

unique or not, definitely dont want ISIS creepers coming back anywhere close to me or my loved ones.

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@Ali_Syed

brother I don't know what you are on about. punishment is there for a purpose, ie to deter people from committing crimes. we can see the punishments Islam has laid down for various crimes, how can one forgive mass murderers? if murderers and rapists are allowed to freely roam around like this I am afraid my friend we are going towards a bigger abyss (anarchy). most of the people with criminal back ground sooner or later start doing what ever they had been doing previously. recent example is the Sydney hostage taker.

A judicial process is necessary for all suspects ... The new laws made for terrorists are ways to circumvent due process and should be changed back.

Murderers and war fighters have a distinctly different process in their heads ... In their minds the fighters were not being murderers, they were being recruits for an army. Acts themselves are not as important as how they are intended and how the are perceived ... Taking a hostage is not an act of war ... It is an act of aggression because it fundamentally contravenes the protecting of civilians ethic.

It's what Tom Cruise's characters says in Jack Reacher ... The difference between a court process by the military policeman from that of a regular policeman, they are the same, except that every suspect is a trained killer.
So yes ... Soldiers are not technically murderers but they are killers and would normally not kill in society, but murderers would and do ... And the label actually precludes that.