ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

[kakaballi]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

What is done is done. You can argue if ISIS did the right thing or not but this is an opportunity. The governments should propagate this news as much as possible to deter potential dish washers and toilet cleaners from joining ISIS.

[picoico]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

ISIS cleaned out some poop that would otherwise have floated back into civilized societies. not everyone deserves second chances and rehab. a lot of more deserving people on this earth who don't even get a first chance at life.

It has nothing to do with second chances. Everything to do with being in the wrong place with the wrong mindset.

Many people have died for far less...many people here would have no qualms throwing out such people with the bathwater of terrorism. Anyhoo...

Had this been a year ago, I'd have suggested people were being blood thirsty...at this point, I think one can't be in so deep with ISIS and not have participated in their crimes.

Also, there's the very real likely hood this is more about an internal power struggle than a change of heart.

[picoico]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@kakaballi

What is done is done. You can argue if ISIS did the right thing or not but this is an opportunity. The governments should propagate this news as much as possible to deter potential dish washers and toilet cleaners from joining ISIS.

Dish washers and toilet cleaners? How do you mean?

[picoico]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

It depends on why they were trying to quit. If they were quitting because they were not getting fair-share then I don't care for their executions, but if they were quitting as they may have witnessed injustice in their (ISIS) actions then we should not be rejoicing on such executions. Remember, we have far more luxury of seeing ISIS brutalities from outside, but from inside not everyone may be able to see the inhumane actions of their colleagues in other parts of the country etc.

Fair point. But as I said before, isn't it a bit late to be involved with that group and not have participated in their crimes?

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@queer

and how will you screen the returnees for actual reason for return? how do you verify they themselves werent killers? remember - even professional soldiers with all their training and access to mental healthcare end up with PTST and war trauma, and have a hard time fitting back into civil society. who will be responsible if ISIS returnees after their reform camp go back to being crazy psychos who dont respect their own life? will you want to live next to an ex-ISIS jihadi? will you be ok with your kid’s schoolbus driver being one? rehab sounds nice, practically speaking - not possible without spending a vast amount on a support network. just import some poor rwandans or hmong refugees instead, they will contribute to society.

Your concerns are real and there is a price to pay … The non-Muslims need to operate in accordance with their own rules and methods and likewise there is an ethical ground here. And to welcome repentant people is the higher ideal even if there is a paranoid risk of them doing something.

And there have been “success” stories … I say that in quotes because to be honest this particular individual has created a weird organisation that promotes odd modernistic understandings, but as far as British society is concerned he is no threat to the public anymore.

Together Amnesty International, the prison experience coupled with proper Islamic education was a successful rehab for Maajid Nawaz - founder of The Quilliam Foundation.

**
Hizb ut-Tahrir years**

While a student at Newham and then at SOAS, Maajid very quickly became a national speaker and international recruiter for Hizb ut-Tahrir, traveling first to Pakistan and then to Denmark to export the party’s ideology and set up cells from London. As part of his university degree, Nawaz spent a compulsory year abroad in Egypt. He was arrested and interrogated in Alexandria for belonging to Hizb ut-Tahrir, which was banned in Egypt. He was then transferred to al-Gihaz, the Cairo headquarters of Aman al-Dawlah (the Egyptian state security service). Though, like most foreign prisoners, he was not himself tortured, he was interrogated with the threat of torture and witnessed other prisoners being tortured. He was then transferred with fellow foreign prisoners, including Ian Nisbet and Reza Pankhurst, to Mazrah Tora. There he was put on trial. During his trial, Maajid Nawaz was adopted by Amnesty International as a prisoner of conscience. Nisbet, Pankhurst and Nawaz were each sentenced to five years imprisonment.
**
Disenchantment and leaving Hizb ut-Tahrir**

While imprisoned in Mazrah Tora Nawaz spoke at length with the Muslim Brotherhood leadership such as Mohammed Badie, who in his youth personally smuggled Qutb’s Milestones out from prison, and their spokesman Dr. Essam el-Erian. He also befriended Dr. Sa’ad al-Din Ibrahim and the imprisoned runner-up to Egypt’s 2006 presidential elections, liberal head of the Tomorrow Party Ayman Nour. Throughout this time, Nawaz continued his studies, sitting with graduates of Cairo’s Al-Azhar University and Dar al-'Ulum. He specialized in the Arabic language whilst studying historical Muslim scholastics, sources of Islamic jurisprudence, Hadith historiography and the art of Qur’an recitation. He also committed half of the Qur’an to memory.
The reason for Nawaz’s departure from Hizb ut-Tahrir was due to profound doubts. As he describes in his own words: “My journey from prison was not an easy one to make. After all, there were many reasons for why I should not leave, and very few for why I should. The one reason that I could not ignore, the one reason that grew deep inside me till it consumed me with guilt was the realisation that I was abusing my faith for a mere political project. After learning through my studies in prison that Islamism was not the religion of Islam, but rather a modern political ideology, I no longer felt guilty simply for criticising a political system inspired by 7th century norms.”

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@kakaballi

What is done is done. You can argue if ISIS did the right thing or not but this is an opportunity. The governments should propagate this news as much as possible to deter potential dish washers and toilet cleaners from joining ISIS.

My suspicions are this news will not be brought mainstream ...

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@picoico

Dish washers and toilet cleaners? How do you mean?

He means the people who are not clever and of lower classes hoping to improve their lives by going abroad … I was a bit confused here also, but his main message was well taken.

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

Fair point. But as I said before, isn't it a bit late to be involved with that group and not have participated in their crimes?

That may be so ... but if a person comes bearing the colours of peace/surrender or hope of amnesty then we have some obligation to entertain them, which is what I guess you are tacitly accepting.

[picoico]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

That may be so ... but if a person comes bearing the colours of peace/surrender or hope of amnesty then we have some obligation to entertain them, which is what I guess you are tacitly accepting.

I do agree with accepting their surrender, but I think the best next step would be prosecution, and only if they are provably clear of any wrong doing, rehabilitation. I cannot see the benefit of immediate amnesty.

[kakaballi]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@picoico

Dish washers and toilet cleaners? How do you mean?

It was a reference to this: Indian IS recruit ‘goes home after having to clean toilets’

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@kakaballi

It was a reference to this: Indian IS recruit ‘goes home after having to clean toilets’

I’m surprised they didn’t kill him … “You must wash our toilets or die” … more seriously it brings us back to picoico’s point earlier … the killing of 100 is less likely to be people trying to leave and more likely about dissent.

Provided the yahoo news is believable …

[picoico]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

we hear about ISIS's barbarity every day, what makes this one special?

Ali, your approval of it.

[picoico]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@kakaballi

It was a reference to this: Indian IS recruit ‘goes home after having to clean toilets’

Ah, i see.

[Balthier]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

I live in Europe. Many such jihadists have traveled from here to join IS. Would I want these sick puppies back? No thanks. Few contribute more to the rise of hatred towards the common muslim, than these people.

They were not ready to repent, they still believed in barbaric and medieval punishments, such as flogging, chopping of limbs, beheading and stoning, for "crimes" such as apostasy and adultery for example. Punishments which they deem as punishments of God. As if God's being is confined to the norms of the 6th century.

Their only objections were who should be subjected to these punishments. Obviously one should not celebrate the death of fellow human beings, but there is also no need to mourn the death of vile individuals, who were cancer to the society. Also, stating facts is not the same as justification. If there is internal dissension within IS, which could lead to the destruction of the organization, then we should all welcome it.

And there is a bitter irony in being consumed by the very same vile and barbaric mindset, which you held so high. Their crime was apparently treason/apostasy.

[psyah]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@Balthier

I live in Europe. Many such jihadists have traveled from here to join IS. Would I want these sick puppies back? No thanks. Few contribute more to the rise of hatred towards the common muslim, than these people.

They were not ready to repent, they still believed in barbaric and medieval punishments, such as flogging, chopping of limbs, beheading and stoning, for "crimes" such as apostasy and adultery for example. Punishments which they deem as punishments of God. As if God's being is confined to the norms of the 6th century.

Their only objections were who should be subjected to these punishments. Obviously one should not celebrate the death of fellow human beings, but there is also no need to mourn the death of vile individuals, who were cancer to the society. Also, stating facts is not the same as justification. If there is internal dissension within IS, which could lead to the destruction of the organization, then we should all welcome it.

And there is a bitter irony in being consumed by the very same vile and barbaric mindset, which you held so high. Their crime was apparently treason/apostasy.

The ability in showing kindness to those who may show you unkindness is the reason why people of sincere faith are needed in this world. The natural instinct of a person who is not deeply religious resorts to this very type of preservation protocol ... I don't blame you for feeling that way ... but there are great people in the world who with their kindness and charity to evil people can turn them around.

Read the story of Shaykh Abdul Qadir Al-Jaylani - truly amazing ...

[hareem01]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

For me people equalling ISIS in their hatred are no better than ISIS. Given the chance, such people would carry out similar acts of violence and brutality.

[Balthier]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@psyah

The ability in showing kindness to those who may show you unkindness is the reason why people of sincere faith are needed in this world. The natural instinct of a person who is not deeply religious resorts to this very type of preservation protocol ... I don't blame you for feeling that way ... but there are great people in the world who with their kindness and charity to evil people can turn them around.

Read the story of Shaykh Abdul Qadir Al-Jaylani - truly amazing ...

Actually, people in the European societies are already showing kindness to these type of people, by giving them freedom of speech. Even if their speech is full of hatred and call for violence and brutality. That's the sort of freedom they would never enjoy in any muslim country in the world. Many of these jihadists are living on welfare provided by our tax money. Who much more compassion should we show to people who want to destroy the very fabric of our societies from within?

Religion is not the answer to everything. One of the reasons why muslim countries are struggling in almost every field, and are falling farther behind to their western counterparts, is because many muslims unfortunately think that everything should start and end at religion. Which is a mindset that has brought muslim nations to a never ending spiral of lack of compassion for fellow human beings. How many muslim nation are there, where human rights are not violated on a regular basis? Why are so many muslims flocking to kufr societies? Religion is a matter of spirituality and a should be a deeply personal issue. Furthermore you don't need to be religious to be a good person.

Btw, for the record, I was not unkind to them, ironically their own kin was, for the very same reasons they wanted to be unkind to others (treason/apostasy).

[Balthier]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@hareem01

For me people equalling ISIS in their hatred are no better than ISIS.

Please, pray tell, who is equalling IS in their hatred? And that was some statement by you, sure you don't want to retract it? Seriously do you know the crimes of IS, and the mindset of the jihadists who went to support IS?

@hareem01

Given the chance, such people would carry out similar acts of violence and brutality.

No, most people in this thread, who are not mourning the death of these vile individuals, but do feel sorry for their families, actually want societies based on tolerance, peace and respect for human beings, regardless of their national and religious background. Completely opposite of what these jihadists want. We even tolerate their hate-filled speeches, because we believe in freedom of speech.

These jihadists follow hate-filled people like Anjem Choudhary, and completely are for violence and brutality, as long as it serves their twisted agenda. Why would we want these type of people living in the same nations as us? So they can make life harder for us and our families, by spewing hate and call for violence? No thanks. These people are one of the main reasons why hatred against common muslims is on a rise. They are on a mission to destroy our societies from within.

Then they went to fight a war, which wasn't quite what they thought it would be, and ended up getting killed in the process. You won't see me shedding tears for them.

Would they shed tears for the ones they went to kill? You reap what you sow. What sort of mindset and values do you think they would have brought back to the societies they left? Why would those societies want these type of values and mindset? You are talking as if these people went to hand out balloons and flowers, and never were a major problem for the nations they left to participate in warfare.

Its kind of ironic that you are calling for non-muslim nations to rehabilitate these people, when no muslim nation would ever try to rehabilitate "enemies of Islam", ie people who openly and continuously criticize Islam in muslim countries.

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@psyah

The ability in showing kindness to those who may show you unkindness is the reason why people of sincere faith are needed in this world. The natural instinct of a person who is not deeply religious resorts to this very type of preservation protocol ... I don't blame you for feeling that way ... but there are great people in the world who with their kindness and charity to evil people can turn them around.

Read the story of Shaykh Abdul Qadir Al-Jaylani - truly amazing ...

psyah, would you like to volunteer to mentor returning jihadis? B/c if you are I say go for it, but if jihadis come back & start beheading people, like the guy who beheaded British solider in London, you and other Muslims in Europe should be ready face the backlash.

[Balthier]

Re: ISIS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

@Shamraz_Khan

psyah, would you like to volunteer to mentor returning jihadis? B/c if you are I say go for it, but if jihadis come back & start beheading people, like the guy who beheaded British solider in London, you and other Muslims in Europe should be ready face the backlash.

People complain of Islamophobia being on a rise, without comprehending that people such as these jihadists are the main reason why some people are so ardently against Islam, which again sadly results in rise of hatred towards the common muslim.