LoL so Americans told Sunnies to say “Kafir Kafir Shia Kafir”, these are words of my madarchod Maulvi who was teaching me quran growing up, or did America or India told Sipah sahab to kill dozens on Hazara Shias, or did America put gun on head of a PAksitani Sunni to shoot Shias ? or gun on head of Tehreek Jafria to shoot Azam Tariq.
Yes Pakistanies are very boradminded, otherwise how come an American can come and Make Sunnies murder Shias in droves, Sunnies burn Christian couple, Sunni kill Salman Taseer, Sunnies kill Ahmadia community, Shia kills Sunni…
Your Prophet ? Who the Fuk are you or any one to say Prophet is yours and not others. There you go, some broad mindedness here, “Our Prophet”, hello, there is No prophet that is yours, Prophet and God is same for every one. What Ahmadia people believe is between them and their God / Prophet. So much boradminded that coming between god and his people? killing them who say they are muslim, calling them non muslm on passport and than have audacity to call Hindus narrowminded ?
@Damras you aren’t presenting your case very well because all you are is blinded by your irrational patriotism. The points that he is bringing up aren’t wrong. Pakistan is not a religiously tolerant country and uber wealthy politicians being in power is not proof of that considering it is mostly the lower classes of shia people and people belonging to different minority groups (Christian, Hindu, Sikh) that will be the ones suffering the most. Also, you pretty much contradicted your own post by making the claim of Pakistan being tolerant and then justifying why Ahmadiyya people are “outcast.” @Chaudhry_sahab Listen, India shares a lot of problems that Pakistan does in regards to religious intolerance and separatist movements. Of course it looks foolish when Pakistanis deny what is going on in their own country (like what some people are doing) but it still exists across the border.
You are correct and I am not saying India is free of problems but the 2 nation theory that made Pakistan isnt exactly panning out so a question should be discussed whether it was a valid theory and if not what can be done going forward that mistakes of 70 years are not repeated including keeping an army taht truly works under civilian leadership and not running bakeries and real estate. Thats all. Its not to belittle Pakistan now, its to make a case that blaming Americans and Indians havent gotten us any where, Calling out Indians names hasnt gotten us any where, treating India as sworn enemy hasnt gotten us any where so may its time to think. Its shameless when an Elected PM of Pakistan meets elected PM of India and labelled traitor but spy chief meets his counter part and its all good. This rhetoric, blind hate of india has been used as a catalyst for our Army top brass to stay relevent and control the country. We should not play this game any more.
I understand what you are trying to say. I don’t believe that the “two nation” theory is completely bunk because of how Pakistan turned out. A lot of the problems you listed about Pakistan (it’s ugly history and present state of oppressing religious/ethnic minorities for one thing) aren’t caused by the two nation theory. Obviously the two nation theory discussion and its validity is a whole different topic, but Pakistan’s main problems come from ****ty government after ****ty government and the deep-seated prejudices that have seriously been taken advantage of (Pakistan isn’t the only country with ethnic conflicts and definitely not the only country that has oppressed shias), among other many reasons. I’m not against your critical attitude, but there is no point in trying to counter blind patriotism with stanning India or the idea that a united subcontinent would have been better. But yes, sure America’s presence hasn’t had the best effects in the region (what an understatement), but Pakistan and Pakistanis do need an outlook adjustment and to self reflect a little.
Your arguments are childish and baseless. If a Muslim man burnt a Christian couple alive then it was an act of crime like Christians kill Muslims in Christian countries, US, Europe etc.
In the same way only sporadic incidents happen of violence against Ahmadiyya. Generally Ahmadiyya and even Shias/Hazaras are not targeted as frequently as the majority Sunni group is targeted in American/Indian sponsored terrorism.
Separatist movement in Balochistan is weaker than many such movements in India. Practically there’s no other separatist movement in Pakistan except Balochistan. Still Balochistan is fully under control of Pakistan’s armed forces and provincial government is also functional over there.
Salman Taseer himself was a Sunni and he was not killed by a Sunni group but an individual who has been hanged for his action.
Shia Sunni violence was created in 1980s in the pretext of Soviet intervention in Afghanistan and in Iran (Iranian brand of Islamic revolution). Generally, Pakisanis are broadminded people; there’s no such strife between Shias and Sunnis.
Pakistan is tolerant towards Ahmadiyya because they are not killed or attacked left and right. You can’t show me any data to prove they have been killed in a considerable number. Yes I agree they don’t have equal rights to what Muslim majority is enjoying and the reason is Ahmadiyya beliefs themselves. Let’s say Ahmadiyya are allowed to recognise themselves as Muslims, and call their places of worship as masjids, no distinction between them and the mainstream Muslims, then what’s next? Religious groups who believe Ahmadiyya attack their religion and their Prophet Muhammad s.a.w by **preaching **that Mirza Ghulam Qadiyani was a Prophet, will go violent and wage a war against the whole Ahmadiyya community. There will be bloodshed and nation’s security will be at stake. Legislation to declare Ahmadiyya out of Islam is for the sake of peaceful coexistence. It’s like a Muslim group in India starts claiming that Hafiz Saeed is the true avatar of Bhagwan or Ram and it means that India must leave Kashmir. Do you think RSS, and BJP are going to kiss the bottom of this Muslim group in response?
More Sunnis have been killed in suicide attacks than all the minorities combined that were killed. In Youhanabad, Christians also retaliated by burning two Muslims alive though they were innocent and had no hand in the terrorist attack.
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Christian armies have been murdering Muslim civilians, children and women in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and in Pakistan, so it makes sense that Christians were targeted in Pakistan though only a few times. Seeing the level of crimes perpetrated by Christian armies, you could have expected weekly if not daily bombings on Christian targets in Pakistan and other affected countries which have been hit by Christian terror.
Since Christians are not targeted as such in Pakistan, it proves Pakistanis are very peaceful and broadminded people who do not kill Pakistani Christians in tit for tat killing.****
I used to think it failed cause of the 71 war but I was told by Indian Bengalis that the two nation theory is still in effect because Indian Bengalis and Bangladeshis haven’t reunited, Bengalis are still divided between religions so the two nation theory hasn’t failed cause of the debacle in 71 in fact it got strengthened after indian bengalis chose religion ovee ethnicity. A lot of Indian Bengalis see Bangladesh as a continuation of the two nation theory.
It’s been over 70 years, I think Pakistan has moved beyond this 2 nation theory. Whether or not the theory was a mistake or if you think you’d rather be indian than Palistani doesn’t change the reality or solve problems, Pakistan isn’t the root of extremism in the muslim world and it going away won’t change that.
**Yes Bangladesh is an undeniable proof that Two Nation Theory is still valid.
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Two Nation Theory uplifted the status of eastern Bengalis and north western Muslims (present Pakistan) or else they would have lived with majority Hindus as their colonies.
North West of India (present Pakistan) and East Bengal were backward and weren’t developed by the British Raj. Thanks to Jinnah and Muslim League who gave an identity to these downtrodden people.
Establishment (military with judiciary) needs to read the writing on the wall. This is 2018 and not 1958 or 1999. People have awareness of their fundamental and political rights. Information technology has changed this world. It’s time Pakistanis needed to rewrite their Constitution.
Armed forces are not trained to be intellectuals. They are soldiers whose job is to defend the borders. In the civilised world, armed forces follow instructions from the civilian administration comprising elected representatives. **If they think Pakistanis are fools and their vote is useless then they should leave this country, because it was the vote of Pakistani and Hindustani Muslims that created Pakistan.
Pakistanis are stupid, democracy is $hit, and Parliamentarians are criminals… then stop using Pakistani tax-payers’ money to pay for high salaries and fringe benefits of military generals and the jawans. Generate your own money to run the armed forces.**
Governments have corruption, there are some criminals in the Parliament because they were raised by the military establishment itself. Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was adopted by the ISI. Altaf Hussain the Pig was once created by the ISI. Nawaz Sharif was created by the ISI. Zardari was created and promoted by the ISI to malign the PPP. Imran Khan the Jewish-agent has been hired by the ISI. Tahir ul Qadri and Khadim Hussain Rizvi have been used by the ISI.
**Therefore, if politics is dirty, that’s because of the dirt piled in it by ISI.
General Headquarters wants to keep the democratic/political institution crippled, so that military generals will keep interfering and intervening in the affairs of government. **
LoL @ both of you. So a Fact that Pakistan was broken in two 2 nations negating original two nation theory has no meaning but a thought that because Bangladesh did not merge with East Bengal is proof of 2 Nation theory is audacious.
First there is no such thing as East Bengal, its India and most likely Its India that didnt want any thing to do with a over populated, devastated country like Bangladesh to take back or may be many other reasons. Its not that East Bengalies could decide if Bangla can come back on their own. However, the FACT that Pakistan which came in to existence as a result of 2 nation theory was further broken in two nations of which both are muslims is clear indicator of total failure of policy.
Two Nation Theory worked first time in 1905 when Bengal was partitioned and Muslim Bengalis welcomed this decision of the British as they had been oppressed by Hindu Bengali elites.
Hindu Bengalis rejected the partition of Bengal and protested against the decision. Apparently they were against the Two Nation idea. The British succumbed to the pressure and reversed the partition in 1911. Bengali Muslims were highly disappointed!
In 1947, Hussain Shaheed Sohrawardy struggled to keep Bengal united, but this time Hindu Bengalis supported the Two Nation Theory and voted to partition Bengal between India and Pakistan.
Punjabi Sikhs and Hindus also practiced the Two Nation Theory by voting for the partition of Punjab in 1947.
Now let me explain the phenomenon of Bangladesh:
In 1940 Lahore Resolution, All India Muslim League under the leadership of Jinnah adopted the formation of Two states for Muslims. One in the East (Bengal with Assam) and the other in the North West (present Pakistan with the whole of Punjab).
However, the final authority was the British. They forced the League to agree on ‘one state Pakistan’ and not a ‘two state Pakistan’ in 1946. Though it was not a viable option with both wings over a 1000 miles apart.
Therefore the creation of Pakistan in 1947 with two wings 1000 miles apart was not realistic. Both wings were totally different **geographically, **socially, culturally with only one commonality as religion. They were one nation but the geography did not make it possible for them to live together. The way Pakistan and Afghanistan can’t live together, or the way Pakistan and Malaysia can’t live together because both have very different lifestyles, it was not realistic that East Bengalis and West Pakistanis would live together. The 1947-divided-Pakistan was imposed on us by the British, like the Kashmir problem was imposed on us by the same white masters.
Bangladesh is a reality, and East Bengalis had to be separated sooner or later, though the way it happened was tragic and shameful.
Listen, I do not give a sh*t what the Ahmadiyya believe or do not believe. The fact that you brought up a justification for why the Ahmadiyya are the position they are in now contradicts your stance that “Pakistan is tolerant towards Ahmadiyya.” Clearly the nation isn’t, and the people especially aren’t since you straight up admitted that there are religious groups that would go haywire if the Ahmadiyya sect was recognized as Muslim. That is no tolerance so there is no reason to make it look like there is.
Also, I don’t give a sh*t about India this and India that because guess what? I do not hold the stance that India is religiously tolerant so these hypothetical situations are just extraneous nonsense you added in to, again, justify why Ahmadiyyas are treated the way they are.
