Dude you are making statements that are subjective is best. There are 100s of billioners in the US and these shady ads dont mean much. I live here and I am yet to see any of these financial ruins. Fact is that there is good and there is bad with economy like any where else but its not like any thing broken. The costs of wars you talk about are cost of maintaining an empire. What and how its relevant to discussion here ? Again America didnt get break down and its soldiers didnt do walk of shame and any comparision between Pak and America is stupid.
Ummm did you just forget that there is a Southern Command stationed in Quetta ?? Lets normalize these numbers to population being controlled, shall we but why go that deep, here is a number. 70,000 Pakistani people have been killed by terrorists that our army created, how many in India ? not even close, now normalize that to population and lets stop this stupid argument.
Fact is that, if you want to be proud of this army be my guest, but world is not blind, no one gives a damn about this army, 93000 of this army went to jails, Siachen was taken from them, Kargil was lost by them, whole 1st armored core was destroyed by light infantry of Indians, its 0-4 in every war they faught. If that makes our army best ,kudos.
Oh come on now, 1947 was division of one country. It was not defeat or victory of any one. Over 70 years, only thing that is now factual that 2 nation theory was false because its at least 3 nation theory. Jinnah was a cunning lawyer and he made a good case. Beyond that there is nothing other than blood and gore of 2 million Punjabi Slaughtered on both sides in the name this division.
Nice yes keep attacking a losing and getting humiliated but hey Lal topi types love this so here you go, Pakistan won 47,65and 99 who cares kashmir, Siachen and Kargil belong to india today.
If Indian population is suffering, that is their problem to solve and my sense is that they are solving it better than we are and even if they are not that is not something to thump chest rather go back to basic point Why is that two countries spend so much on defense and can spend on its population. If you are dreaming about Indian Collapse, sure but factually so far India has not been broken but Pakistan was so if history tell us anything, there may be more smaller countries in Pakistan first than in India.
You calling Modi Terrorist is same as me calling another president terrorist, its Meaningless. Your opinion doesnt matter, your and my opinion doesnt make any one terrorist. He won elections and vote of his people. If you want to cry about it be my guest but it wont change a damn thing. Modi is among most liked leaders in developing world. Our own best friends are becoming his friend. He is no longer a Modi but a PM modi that represent India with whom we need to choose our future, same of the old BS war crap or economic progress.
The shocking decline in American economic mobility
[INDENT=3]Originally published April 27, 2017 at 9:44 am Updated April 27, 2017 at 10:02 am[/INDENT]
Meanwhile, a new Pew Research Center study found that from 1991 to 2010 the middle class shrank more in the United States than in seven Western European nations. In four, including the Netherlands and France, the middle class grew. The decline here was from 62 percent of households to 59 percent.
AND THIS
Over the past 15 years, America’s fortunes have changed with dizzying speed.
First came the tremors: the dot-com bust and a disputed presidential election in 2000. Then came the massive convulsions: the destruction of the Twin Towers in 2001 and the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008.
Long wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have exacted an enormous blood price - the lives of 6,852 American military personnel - not to mention immense financial expense, estimated to be as high as $6 trillion (£3.9tn).
The point is, in case you’re not following, Pakistan’s failure in front of a bigger power (India) is temporary and smaller than the US failure in the war on terror and in previous wars.
May be you need to investigate these claims and make economic sense. Ok lets do this, so US went down on scale of wealth vs. few European countries, Ok fine. How is that relevant to situation in Pakistan ? Since I have been living and working here, I have seen nothing but growth but than again its subjective. Lets say it differently, even today 67% of americans are home owners, while their salaries have not grown meaningfully but nothing was broken either, its not like people are dying of hunger here and have no place to live or Safety nets are not there because of Iraq and Afg Wars. The policy setting wars to maintain an empire will always have a cost. That’s what empires do but saying that’s a defeat of the US when all fuking generals of our great army have their families living here is laughable.
Also, the cost of war is not exactly coming from Americans, other countries in particular Arabs are being squeezed as well so go figure. In any case, none of this is evidence that America lost and is breaking etc. because of wars.
You’re once again wrong. American’s did rely on this army in 1980s, invested on it, and this army helped defeat Soviet Union in Afghanistan and it led to the collapse of communism.
In the war on terror, this army (Pak Army) did not let America win the war, and that’s why Donald Trump is a cry baby lol.
No one can deny the importance and strength of Pak Army, only a fool can.
The events of 1971 are not relevant with over a 1000 miles distance and poorly guarded territory.
Siachen was unmanned when India occupied it, like Kargil was unmanned when Pakistan occupied it. Siachen was no doubt Indian success and Pakistan has not given up.
and finally if Pakistan’s failure where half of the country was lost, 93000 (largest surrender since WW1), losing 70000 brothers and sisters from cancer of strategic assets of our army, breaking down of country and robbing 15 years from mine and next generation is smaller than so called loss of the US where stock markets are at its highest, wealth is increasing, unemployment is down is a remarkable fate.
I bow out of this conversation if this is what you are implying. I am sorry but there is a limit of being delusional.
Yea totally meaningless because not like Modi is completely unapologetic about the Gujrat massacre and was quoted saying that his only regret was not managing the news media “better”. Your arguments are absolutely hilarious, you go around telling people “just because you present all these facts and say it so, doesn’t make it so.” Great debating skills Chaudhary.
You are shining the shoes of a person who supported the killing of minority muslims in India yet calling Jinnah a con. Amazing…
Extreme poverty in America: read the UN special monitor’s report
The proposed tax reform package stakes out America’s bid to become the most unequal society in the world, and will greatly increase the already high levels of wealth and income inequality between the richest 1% and the poorest 50% of Americans. The dramatic cuts in welfare, foreshadowed by Donald Trump and speaker Ryan, and already beginning to be implemented by the administration, will essentially shred crucial dimensions of a safety net that is already full of holes. It is against this background that my report is presented.
The United States is one of the world’s richest and most powerful and technologically innovative countries; but neither its wealth nor its power nor its technology is being harnessed to address the situation in which 40 million people continue to live in poverty.
Why dont you do some research. What you have posted here is thinking of left leaning school of thoughts. No America is not breaking down and what Trump administration is doing has nothing to do with Wars. Tax reforms are one of many different policy vehicles are interpreted differently. The difference between wealth of richest and poorest is growing but that doesnt mean you can say America is breaking down because of Wars. What are you even trying to prove here. Sorry but the BS of some so called losses in Wars. America is fine as is and there is neither any loss nor any humiliation here on any thing related to two wards. Policy of empire building is just fine. Lets talk about 70,000 of paksitanies killed as a result of these wars.
Excuse me ? I dont know if Modi killed or didnt Kill muslims in India. Its not my problem nor it makes me qualified to call some one terrorist. Ok lets talk about this, other than some delusionals folks in Pakistan, who else Call Modi Terrorist ? Why do you care what Modi has to apologize or not to, What even is matter to you what happened in India to muslims when 70,000 of muslims have been slaughtered here in Pakistan ?
Modi is an elected PM of India period. Thats all I care about, he represents India, he is commanding his position at International level and enhancing India’s stance on every thing and if you want to cry about that he is Terrorist, so go do it, no one in the world gives a damn but first tell me if Modi as an in charge of a state where massacre happened in India, what do you call the mother ****ers in our army under whose watch 70,000 people were killed ?
and when did I call Jinnah a con ? I called Jinnah a cunning lawyer who did make case of Pakistan very well. After 70 years, its clear that 2 nation theory was false, misleading and wrong. In 1971, a third nation was born which negated 2 nation theory. Even more so, its an academic debate as well. What if a united country with 40% muslim population existed, how did that country fared vs. three countries leaving small muslim population in India to suffer scars of partition ? What if there was no partition and 2 million Punjabies and others were not slaughtered and a 40% population had better say ? Who knows but one thing is getting clear, the muslims in United India Wouldnt be worse off than how its in present day Pakistan and Bangla.
Facts are clear, 70,000 mulsims have been slaughtered by other muslims in Pakistan only in Terrosr, add Shia / Hazara genocide on top of it, add West Pakistani genocide of East and East on West / Biharies, you have a lot more muslims slaughtered in Pak / Bangla after independance than in India.
Again, we should debate whether 2 nation theory was right or wrong, and if wrong, what is path forward. Offcourse, Pakistan is now a reality, but things has to change or may be slavery to one ****ing institute of army is fine as well.
I would debate with you @Chaudhry_sahab but I don’t want to get down to the level of a foul mouth. I would just like to say one thing, your opinion of muslims being better off in united India is laughable, do you just skip over the killings of muslims over accusations of eating meat or “flirting” with a hindu woman by hindu nationalists? Or Muslims not being allowed to rent or buy in affluent areas of Mumbai and New Delhi? They are not even allowed to open businesses in those areas. How delusional are you? Also, the Gujrat massacre matters to me because unlike you, my humanity does not stop at the border.
Before you regurgitate the same thing you have been saying in EVERY single post of yours, I don’t care to waste any more of my time on you. Peace!
P.S. I doubt you are Pakistani and even if you are (what a shame), you are more than welcome to make a home for yourself in India and pretend like Pakistan does not exist while simultaneously bad mouthing the nation and its forces like many other Modi fanatics.
First its not my opinion its a question that should be debated. Did you just forget 70,000 Pakistani muslims being slaughtered in Pakistan ? Did you just forget Hazara community (Muslims) went through a genocide esque purge in 2010-2012, did you forget Shia killings, did you forget all that ? How is that any different.
However, point is that, if there would be a United India with a large (40%) population as muslim, do yo think the kind of things that happened in Gujrant or these things you are noting would have happened ? Most likely no as 40% of population is lot more harder to press vs. say 10% but further do you think there would be 70,000 of our brothers and sisters killed by terrorists would have happened un United India or for that matter massacres in 1971 etc. ?
I am sorry but these are tough questions that we need to discuss and answer or at least appreciate. You Cant NOT say see whats happening to Muslims in Inida now when reality would be very different in United India. If you cant see that than there is nothing to talk. In any case Pakistan is reality but we have to understand why there is One Institute that has made rest of the country its Slave ? Why this institute after committing genocide of Bengalies, paraded with Shame in Calcutta, Losing all wars, taking most from national exchequer is like a God and not accountable and under whose watch 70,000 are murdered ?
I dont need Certificate of being Paksitani from you or any other tom, dick and harry. Being Pakistani or being patriot doesnt mean you become blind to facts. Unless facts are accepted and lessons learned implemented, nothing gets better. Walk of Shame in Calcutta was never taught or discussed, hence humiliation of Siachen and Kargil happened, Genocide in Operation search light was never discussed hence Baluchi massacres happened, reasons of Bengali hate were never discussed hence Baluchi hate towards Punjabies happened, Failures of Gibraltar were never discussed hence Kargil happend. So on and so forth.
If becoming a slave to an institute and not question / hold them accountable is patriotic to you, **** no, I am not Pakistani and Laanat on that Pakistaniat but to me Patriotic/ Being Paksitani means understanding root cause of 4 lost wars, half country gone, 70,000 muslims butchered by islamists, walk of shame of 93000 cowards and common denominator happens to the God AKA pak Army. They must be held accountable either by us or by Others.
I do not believe in being blindly patriotic so you are barking up the wrong tree here. Your concerns are valid but you are highly biased and that is why it is hard to take you seriously. FYI, there were many incidences of prejudice when it was British India and this would have only worsened later, the two nation theory did not come out of thin air but I do not see how discussing that theory is going to get you anywhere. It happened, it is the past, end of story. Also, I did not grant or take away your Pakistaniyat, just made a comment regarding your bias.
Did 2 million punjabis actually die in the partition? I thought that this was the overall casualty count.
As for Punjab or west punjab, they (muslim punjabis) have certainly done well as they dominate Pakistan demographically and politically. It wouldn’t be possible at all in a united india with bigger ethnic groups competing with punjabis. Muslim punjabis would also have to contend with small but politically and economically powerful minorities like Sikhs and Hindus. Many became chaudhries and patwaris overnight in 1947 by taking over abandoned properties of sikhs and hindus. I am not an expert on India in this matter but I am pretty sure sikhs benefited by ethnically cleansing muslims in eastern punjab.
100% true. Pakistan uplifted the status of Muslim Punjabis, that’s the most important reason why Punjab voted for Pakistan in the 1947 referendum. Earlier Punjab didn’t support Pakistan Movement as much as Sindh did. Pakistan was basically created by the heavy mandate of Bengal and United Provinces.
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In a United India, Muslim Punjabis wouldn’t be treated differently from Indian held Kashmiris today.**
