Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

In English pls...

102

Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

his name is sheeda pistol....its a sort of common slang in Pakistan. You make a funny name of a guy and then add pistol, bazooka, churi, shaabi etc etc to make it look more funny.

So I wrote replying to his post "Sheede (in actual Sheeda) are you trying to scare us off witht he pistol....like this no one would answer corectly....firstly take off the pistol so I can breath easily and then we can talk...lolz"

103

EXACTLY WHAT I VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY.

I think someone just wants to establish that the promised messiah has come, which in actual fact the majority wont agree on cos he hasnt, the way its beeing tried to be established is that he IS dead, and therefore, to conclude that the promised messiah HAS arrived, but like the majority is, including me, RC, hareem, psyh etc, are of the belief that He isnt Dead, and the messiah is YET to come. conclusively, the point of this thread and belief of some would no longer exist.

So which way do u wana go pistol, We cant convince some by logic, hadith and Qur'aan maybe we need your pistol now to do by Force :p

Peace :)

104

hey bob(go man) ...you will scare ppl with talk like this...:D

105

which sect of christianity believes that Esa (A.S) is dead?

Timepass - June 2013
106

indeed my point

We cant convince some by logic, hadith and Qur'aan maybe we need dua

107

One can live for as long Allah wishes. The problem here is Him coming back to Earth to get death, when in heavens only people who are dead goes. It is evidence enough that you hold Esa AS to be more superior than Muhammad PBUH since He AS was the only one who was taken up to heavens alive because Allah couldnt see him in pain, but we see no instance such as this happening with the greatest prophet of all time, the holy prophet PBUH. I just want to see to what extent you can go just to keep him alive.

PS: I asked a question earlier, will he be born again or not?.. also, if being in heavens stops his age at the point when he AS was taken up? Is he AS 2000+ years old at the moment? this is a serious question, and requires a serious answer, because with your answer, ill be quoting verses of Quran yet again for you and the audience here to look at.

...

Please go right ahead. Keeping in mind Prophets were subjected to hunger, pain, sleep etc..

108

Gladly...but I request you to read the whole thing...

Timing is everything. The main objective of this argument is to discredit the fact that the time when Hazrat ISA (PBUH), the son of Mary will descend is in the future.

Because without discrediting this fact, Ahmadis can't support Mirza saabs claim of Al Mahdi (AS) because they believe that Al Mahdi (AS) and Hazrat ISA(AS) are the same person not two.

Here are few of the authentic AHADITH Ahmadis usually re-manufacture:

Reading following AHADITH, I believe the following:

  • The 'Mehdi' of Islampoor Qazi (Qadyan) has definitely failed because the world has become more chaotic than before! Now it is time for another 'Mehdi', the true one that is.

=====================================================

*The Coming of Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him *
"Jesus, the son of Mary, peace be upon him, will descend when the prince is Al Mahdi and Al Mahdi will say to Jesus: 'Come, lead us in prayer.' But he will decline saying: 'You are princes over each other which is the Favor of Allah to this nation.'"

"A group from my nation will keep fighting for the truth until Jesus, the son of Mary descends at dawn in the Mosque of Jerusalem. He will approach Al Mahdi who will say: 'O Prophet of Allah, come, lead us in prayer.' But he will decline saying: 'This nation has princes over each other.'"

The two preceding Hadiths were reported by Jabir, son of Abdullah, and are found in the references of Muslim, Abu Nuaym, Abu Amru Ad-Dani and Al Bazaar

*Al Mahdi And Jerusalem *

"A man from my nation will come who speaks with my Sunnah7
and Allah, the Mighty, the Glorified
will send showers of rain from the heavens
so that the earth will produce its blessing.
Through him the earth will be filled with fairness and justice
just as it had been filled by oppression and injustice.
He will govern this nation for seven years, and go to Jerusalem."
"I bear good tidings for you concerning Al Mahdi.
He will be sent when people differ
and the earth quakes!"

*Distribution of Wealth *

"He will fill the earth with fairness and justice
just as it had been filled by oppression and injustice.
The inhabitants of the heavens and earth will be pleased with him.
He will distribute wealth equally."
At this point a companion asked what 'equally' meant so the Prophet replied:
"Equally, between the people, and Allah will fill the hearts
of the nation of Muhammad with richness
and his justice will satisfy them
until he sends a messenger saying:
'Who is in need of wealth?'
None except one man will stand and say, 'Me'.
So he will say: 'Go to the treasurer and tell him
that Al Mahdi orders you to give me wealth.'
So the treasurer will say to him:
'Fill with your hands!'
And he will put it in his clothing then tie it.
Then he will become contrite and say:
'I was the most greedy among the nation of Muhammad,
and he will attempt to return it but it will not be accepted,
and it will be said to him:
'We do not accept what we have given.'
And so he (Al Mahdi) will remain
seven, eight or nine years --
then, there is no goodness left in life
nor yet in living after him.
The preceding narrations were reported by Abi Said Al Khudri in the reference of Abi Dawood, Al Hakim, At-Tirmizi, Ahmad, ibn Hibban, Muslim, Al Tabarani (in his middle dictionary), Al Barudi and Abu Nuaym in his forty Hadith concerning Al Mahdi.

The Certainty of his Appearance:

"Even if there remained only one day left to be lived
Allah will prolong that day until He sends a man from me8
His name is like my name,
and his father's name is like my father's name.
He will fill the earth with fairness and justice
just as it was filled by oppression and injustice."
"The days will not end and life will not vanish
until the Arabs are governed by a man
from the Family of my House -- his name is the same as mine."

*The Importance of Following Al Mahdi *

Ibn Masood reported:
"We went to the Messenger of Allah, praise and peace be upon him,
and he came out with good news --
and happiness was easily recognizable upon his face.
When we asked him about a matter
he would tell us about it,
and we were never silent about anything until he spoke of it,
until a party from the Bani Hashim passed by
amongst whom were Al Hasan and Al Hussain, peace be upon them.
When he saw them he hugged them with tears in his eyes,
so we asked: 'O Messenger of Allah'
we see something has changed your face which distresses us.'
Thereupon he replied:
'We are a Family of a House
for whom Allah has chosen the Hereafter rather than the present.
After me my family will be refugees,
driven out of countries until the Black Banners are raised in the east.
They will ask for the truth
but they will not be given it,
so they will ask again for it,
and they will not be given it ,
so they will fight and be given victory.
Those of you or your descendants who live during that time
go to the Imam of the Family of my house
even if you have to crawl over ice to him.
Indeed, they are banners of guidance.
They will deliver it to a man from the Family of my House
his name is the same as my name,
and the name of his father is the same as my father,
and he will fill the ground with fairness and justice."
This hadith is in found in the references of Abu Dawood, Al Hakim, At-Tirmizi, Ibn Hibban, Ibn Majhah, Au Ash-Shaykh, Ibn Adiy, Abu Dhabi, Ibn Asakir and Abu Nuaym.

Return of Justice

Prophet Muhammad, praise and peace be upon him, said:
"If only one day in life remains,
Allah will send a man from the Family of my House.
He will fill the earth with justice
just as it has been filled by injustice."
"Al Mahdi is from the family of the House
Allah will 'yuslihu'9 him in a night."

Unification of Muslims

"He is from us -
as Allah opened with us, so He will close,
and with us they will be saved from polytheism.
And with us Allah arbitrates between the hearts after open hostility
as He arbitrates between their hearts after the hostility of polytheism."
Ali asked: 'Are they believers or unbelievers?'
He answered: "Some are on trial and others are unbelievers."

*Warning: *

"At the end of Time there will be a trial in which people will be sorted
in a way similar to that in which gold is sorted from metal."
"So do not rebuke the people of Syria
but rebuke the evil people among them
because amongst them is Al Abdal.
A flood is about to be sent down upon the people of Syria
which will disperse their groups in such a way
that if foxes attacked they would be beaten.
At that time a man from the Family of my House
will come under three banners;
between twelve and fifteen thousand
and their password is - 'Die, die.'
Then, there will come seven banners
and under each will be one man seeking the kingdom.
Allah will kill all of them and restore unity and favors upon the hearts of Muslims,
and those who were far come close."
The preceding hadith was reported by Imam Ali in the references of Ahmad, Abu Dawood, Ibn Majah and At-Tabarani.

*Children of Lady Fatima, may Allah be pleased with her and them *

"Al Mahdi is from my pure musked descendants
from the children of Fatima10"
"Yes, he is the truth,
and he is from the children of Fatima."

*When and Where Al Mahdi is given Allegiance *

"Differences will occur after the death of a caliph
and a man from the people of Medina will escape to Mecca.
Then, some of the people of Mecca
will come to him and drag him out against his desire11
and give him their allegiance between Ar-Rukn and Al Makam.12
An army will be sent against him from Syria
that will be swallowed up in Al Bayda - desert
between Mecca and Medina.
When people see this the Abdal of Syria will come to him
as well as a group of people from Iraq
and pledge their allegiance between Ar-Rukn and Al Makam.
Then a man from the Koraysh will come
whose cousins are from Kalb13,
and he will send an army to them that will overcome them
and this will become known as the Battle of Kalb.
Whosoever does not witness the spoils of war from Kalb is lost!
And he (Al Mahdi) will distribute wealth and practice the Sunnah
of their Prophet, praise and peace be upon him, with the people.
And Islam will spread throughout the earth.
He will remain seven years then die,
and the believers will pray14 for him."
This hadith was reported by Lady Ummu Salamah, wife of the Prophet, Mother of the Believers, may Allah be pleased with her, and is found in the references of Abu Dawood, Ibn Majah, Al Hakim, Ibn Hibban and At-Tabarani.

"If only one day remains in the world,
Allah will send a man with a name like mine.
His manners will be likened to my manners."

109

Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

in essence RC the world is in disorder for disobeying Allah and his messenger.

I dont think there has been any Prophet sent by Allah who was accepted by All.

110

True. Valid and good point.

Having said that, let me ask you this. Has there been any prophet sent by Allah who claimed all of the following at the same time:

  1. A brand New Prophet
  2. Mehdi
  3. *Allah *
  4. Son of Allah
  5. Reincarnation of Prophet Muhammad(SA, PBUH) (better version)
  6. Hazrat ISA (AS)
  7. The Christian God
  8. Hazrat Ali (RA)
  9. Hazrat Imam Hussein(RA)
  10. Shri Krishna (The Lord of Hindus)
  11. *Guru Nanak *

;)

RC

believe it or not
111

Thanks. That would definetly help us recognise him.

112

:D

1/3/4/5/7/8/9/11 are totally wrong. do not just keep on saying same thing over and over..this will not make it true. PM me with the references, if you dont feel like opening another thread. This thread has nothing to do with jamaat e ahmadiyya.

113

and 10 is not incorrect? He claimed to be Shri Krishna as well?

114

Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

^ irrelevant topic. Lets read the context where he claimed to be Shri Krishna. Open another thread for this. I will reply.

PS: got something to write about Jesus AS?

115

Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

Nay, im hardly interested to start a thread on mrza saab, but you are welcome to start the part II of "allegations against ahmadiyaat" or something ;0

116

This thread is about Hazrat ISA (PBUH) and his death. You been saying this thread is about Hazrat ISA(PBUH) and not about Ahmadiyat over and over again.

This is a true representation of Mirza saab's teachings...LIE, MANUPILATE, and FABRICATE.

I prove this by presenting your own post/reply to my post in the thread 'What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?' on page 30. This post was closed on your request. Here is your post

Read the BOLD red highlighted text. Are you not embarrassed? Does being Ahmadi give you a license to contradict yourself shamelessly? Come on accept it. ;) .

Now you have to not only defend Mirza saab's false claims but your own too......;)

Do you still shamelessly say that this thread is not about Ahmadiyat ?

So having said that, let me touch on the following:

Here are few references as I presented before.

  1. A brand New Prophet - "This verse, 'He is the Messenger of God and the seal of Prophets' contains a secret allusion to prophecy and that is that the coming of prophets is sealed for ever, and except for the prophet incarnate who is no other than the prophet himself, will have the faculty of receiving revelations from God openly like the prophets of old. Since I was destined to be the Prophet that was to come, I was destined to be the Prophet that was to come, I was made the prophet Incarnate."(Eik Ghalati-ka-Izala, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
  2. *Allah - *"I dreamt that I was Allah and I believed that I was really he." (Aina-i-Kamalat, Page 564) "I saw that I was God, and believed that I was He, and in that condition I was saying, 'We intend to create a new system and a new heaven and earth.' Then, I said 'We decorated the Lower heaven with Lights; and added, We shall create men out of the extract of earth'." (Kitab-ul-Bariya, Page 78; Aina-i-Kamalat, Page 564)
  3. Reincarnation of Prophet Muhammad(SA, PBUH) (better version) - "Muhammad has again come among us. His new position is an improvement on his earlier visitation. If any man wishes to see Muhammad, akmal (more competent), then he should see Ghulam Ahmad, in Qadian."(Al-Badr, Oct 5, 1906; Written by a poet and published by Mirza Ghulam Qadiani) "It is a fact that Muhammad(pbuh) worked only three thousand miracles... My Miracles exceed one million in numbers."(Ijaze-e-Ahmadi, Page 79; Tadhkira tul Shahadatain, Page 41) "It is possible for a man to attain a spiritual position higher than any other man; if any man wishes, he can rise even above Muhammad(pbuh)."(Daily Al-Fadl, Jul 17. 1992, Mirza Basheer al-Din Mahmud Qadiani)

Before this gets too lengthy and readers lose interest, I will get you time to verify these references before I present more.

;)

RC

117

Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

reality check, I think u don't understand. Popat says this thread is about Jesus. You are saying Jesus is about ahmadiyya. Why is it so difficult for u to understand this? And to think u understand the quran better??? I wonder...

118

You've got to be kidding me man. I see now, why u are having hard time accepting Jesus AS's death. This way it will be apparent to you about Jamaat e ahmadiyya's truthfulness. You will do ANTHING POSSIBLE to keep jesus AS alive and to keep defaming jamaat e ahmadiyya even if the truth is exposed to you right from Quran. But i now see the reason of you quoting me and telling me that i said that. Yes i indeed said that. Jamaat e ahmadiyya hold this belief because they have firm belief in Quran. Lets just not get into what i said , what you said and blah blah.. can you prove my points wrong regarding Jesus AS's death?.. Jesus AS is what this thread is about. Quran and hadith is the standard we set here to keep the discussion constructive and relevant to the topic. Got something to contribute dude?..

So having said that, let me touch on the following:

[QUOTE]

Here are few references as I presented before.

  1. A brand New Prophet - "This verse, 'He is the Messenger of God and the seal of Prophets' contains a secret allusion to prophecy and that is that the coming of prophets is sealed for ever, and except for the prophet incarnate who is no other than the prophet himself, will have the faculty of receiving revelations from God openly like the prophets of old. Since I was destined to be the Prophet that was to come, I was destined to be the Prophet that was to come, I was made the prophet Incarnate."(Eik Ghalati-ka-Izala, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
  2. *Allah - *"I dreamt that I was Allah and I believed that I was really he." (Aina-i-Kamalat, Page 564) "I saw that I was God, and believed that I was He, and in that condition I was saying, 'We intend to create a new system and a new heaven and earth.' Then, I said 'We decorated the Lower heaven with Lights; and added, We shall create men out of the extract of earth'." (Kitab-ul-Bariya, Page 78; Aina-i-Kamalat, Page 564)
  3. Reincarnation of Prophet Muhammad(SA, PBUH) (better version) - "Muhammad has again come among us. His new position is an improvement on his earlier visitation. If any man wishes to see Muhammad, akmal (more competent), then he should see Ghulam Ahmad, in Qadian."(Al-Badr, Oct 5, 1906; Written by a poet and published by Mirza Ghulam Qadiani) "It is a fact that Muhammad(pbuh) worked only three thousand miracles... My Miracles exceed one million in numbers."(Ijaze-e-Ahmadi, Page 79; Tadhkira tul Shahadatain, Page 41) "It is possible for a man to attain a spiritual position higher than any other man; if any man wishes, he can rise even above Muhammad(pbuh)."(Daily Al-Fadl, Jul 17. 1992, Mirza Basheer al-Din Mahmud Qadiani)

Before this gets too lengthy and readers lose interest, I will get you time to verify these references before I present more.

;)

RC
[/QUOTE]

dont want this thread to be closed. Feel welcome to open up another thread. No talk of jamaat e ahmadiyya here.

119

Allegation thread is closed on my request. It will reopen as soon as I have replies ready for all outstanding allegations in that thread.
I cannot afford to have thread will allegations only and no reply. It is easy for some to copy paste allegation however takes me hours to reply to each line of allegation especially when they are not correctly references or not referecned at all.

120

RC mere dost 3 and 4 were replied. For rest as Mr Popat said give the references from writings so they can varified. Perhaps wait till Allegations thread reopens.

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