2:111 - " produce your proof , if you are truthful "
Asslam o alaikum dear readers,
The reason of this thread is to discuss a very important belief mainstream Muslims hold regarding Jesus AS and Him being taken alive to heavens. I would like to have discussion on this issue based ONLY on Quran and Ahadith. Keep in mind, I will not be bringing anything from the beliefs of the Ahmadiyya movement in Islam. Everything will be said here according to the teachings of Quran and ahadith.
Also, keep in mind, if i have questions from people who hold the belief of Him taken up alive, those question by no means should be taken as attacking your belief but to think for yourself and coming up with answer again from Quran and ahadith. Lets make Quran and ahadith a standard in this debate. If people who will be opposing me have questions , please ask, but make sure those questions does not attack the ahmadiyya movement in Islam. For sometime , just forget that i belong to ahmadiyya muslim jamaat in this thread. Everything here will be based on Quran and ahadith.
Lets have a very healthy and topic related discussion here. No question about jamaat e Ahmadiyya here. Though, this discussion may lead some people to think and understand about the claims that the founder of ahmadiyya jamaat made.
I personally believe Jesus As of Nazareth is no longer alive. Some logical and simple reasoning as to why i do not believe in him being alive. Quran and ahadith will be provided later in the thread.
- He was human and theres an age limit of humans. Jesus AS like all humans lived and it is apparent that He must have died in this Earth.
- It goes against Quran when Quran only refers to Him as prophet of Israel, and upon his arrival He will be a follower of Islam.
- It goest against the word Khataman nabiyeen ( if taken literally as last prophet ) if He comes back.
Now, show me the right path, and prove me wrong when i bring Quranic verses supporting my belief. We all agree that Isa AS just like any other human or prophet, was a true prophet of Allah too. Nothing more or less. Following are verses from Quran to think about..( with a little comments of my own )..
17:93 Or thou have a house of gold or thou ascend up into heaven; and we will not believe in thy ascension until thou send down to us a book that we can read.’ Say, ‘Holy is my Lord! I am not but a man sent as a Messenger
When Kuffaar asks Muhammad PBUH to bring down a book from heaven and only then will they believe Him, the reply given to them by Holy prophet was that He is a human and a messenger.
5:75(76 for some) The Messiah, son of Mary, **was *only a Messenger; surely, Messengers *like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
Look at this verse extra carefully. They both used to eat food. Meaning, they no longer do. If someone here comes and tell me that they are still eating food in heaven then please see the following verses..
21:08 (09 for some).. “And We did not give them bodies that ate no food, nor were they to live for ever**” **
25:21 ( 20 for some )..And We never sent any Messengers before thee but surely they ate food and walked in the streets. And We make some of you a trial for others. Will you *then *be steadfast? And thy Lord is All- Seeing.
See how the 2 verses above helped understand the 5:75 verse? Quran saying Prophets were humans which required food to eat.. then it says that Jesus and His mother Mary USED to eat food. They no longer eat now. The one who no longer eat is dead. Keep in mind in verse 5:75, Allah added Mary with Jesus. If Mary is dead, so is Jesus AS.
Also a verse from Quran to look at is the 3:144(145 for some), which was recited by Abu Bakr Sadiq RA, upon holy Prophet PBUH’s death.
3:144 ( or 145 for some )And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, all Messengers have passed away before him. If then he die or be slain, will you turn back on your heels? And he who turns back on his heels shall not harm Allah at all. And Allah will certainly reward the grateful.
this verse was the first verse on which Muslim had their first ijmaah on. All messengers have passed away before him. Had there been any doubt about this, then the possibility of Muhammad PBUH not dying was surely there. But since all messengers died before Him, he SAW died as well.
Note : the verse just quoted above uses the word " Qad khalat " which means died before.. examples of this word can be found in verses numbers 46:17, 41:25, 13:30, 2:134, 33:38, 24:34, 10:102, 5:75. ( one verse ahead for some )..Therefore, translating qad khalat in verse number 3:144 (quoted above) differently then the verses to which i’ve given references is not wise to do.
Since we all Muslims believe Jesus AS was just like us a human as well.. here is what Quran has to say to humans.. which include prophets as well…
In Quran, 7:25(26 for some) Allah says.. ‘Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and therefrom shall you be brought forth.’
and then another verse says … 77:26-27(27-28 for some) " have we not made the earth so as to hold the living and the dead "
For now, this is what i’d like to talk about.. please correct me if im wrong in my understanding of the verses I quoted above. JazakAllah. I will inshallah be presenting some more quranic references which supports my belief that Jesus son of Mary AS is dead.
PS: Also , I know what other people will be presenting in support of their belief.. 4:157,158 (158-159 for some).. which is ..
And their saying, ‘We did kill the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;’ whereas they slew him not, nor crucified him, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no definite knowledge thereof, but only follow a conjecture; and they did not convert this conjecture into a certainty;On the contrary, Allah exalted him to Himself. And Allah is Mighty, Wise
Please note , no matter how you translate this verse, there is NO MENTION of BODY or HEAVEN. Nor is there any mention of Jesus AS’s look alike being switched on the cross. Is it reasonable to conclude that whoever is NOT KILLED nor crucified is taken up to heaven ?.. is this the only option left or the person who is not killed nor crucifed die a natural death?
For now, this is it.. please bring Quranic references to support your point of view. JazakAllah. May Allah give us strength to understand Quran properly and to help us see the true light. Aamin.