Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

Aramis09, As i said in my first post, there will be no questions regarding the ahmadiyya jamaat. Everything here is being talked based on Quran and Hadith. Now, if you have different translations please present it and we shall look at them as well. Mr/Mrs. 라시드](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/members/-and-46972-and-49884-and-46300-.html) presented the translatation of the verses i quoted in my first post.

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Discussing HAZRAT ISA (PBUH) will not change the following facts no matter how Ahmadis twist Quran and Ahadees:

MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD QADYANI:

  1. Was Not A brand New Prophet
  2. Was Not Mehdi
  3. Was Not Reincarnation of Prophet Muhammad(SA, PBUH) (better version)
  4. Was Not Hazrat ISA (AS)
  5. Was Not The Christian God
  6. Was Not Hazrat Ali (RA)
  7. Was Not Hazrat Imam Hussein(RA)
  8. Was Not Allah himself
  9. Was Not Son of Allah
  10. *Was Not Shri Krishna, The Lord of Hindus *
  11. *Was Not Guru Nanak *
  12. Did I miss any of his claims ? feel free to add to the list.... ;)

Also... Ahmadis are declared non-Muslims in the UMMAH of 1.66 BILLIONS. ;)

RC

Aaj kya pakaaya/khaaya
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Please note the verse you just quoted. Read it carefully. This verse mention nothing about 'body' or 'heaven'. The verse says He was nor crucified, nor was he killed. Now, is it reasonable to conclude that whoever in this world is not crucified, nor killed, Allah raise Him alive to Himself? ( ofcourse in way of Allah ).

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Different topic, and its been discussed in different thread. . I want this thread to only talk about death/raised up alive of Jesus son of Mary AS. Talk to me about it. If you have nothing useful to contribute, I request you to please not derail the thread. Thanks.

Timepass - June 2013
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This is your admission that you have lost the ‘Isa is alive’ argument hence diversionary tactics.

[Quote]

Also... Ahmadis are declared non-Muslims in the UMMAH of 1.66 BILLIONS. ;)
RC
[/Quote]

Declared non-Muslims by whom? Those who can not prove their own beliefs form Quran & Ahadith? ROFL

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In Quran, 7:25(26 for some) Allah says.. ‘Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and therefrom shall you be brought forth.’

and then another verse says ... 77:26-27(27-28 for some) " have we not made the earth so as to hold the living and the dead "
Quran says Earth is where you ( human ) shall live and herein shall you die.. Now.. in this Earth , Allah is all powerful to increase anyone's life span. Earth is only the place where one shall live and die.

Please do tell if and when Jesus AS will return, will he be born again, or not? A simple "yes he will be born again " or " no he AS will not be born again " is enough. If you want, you can quote verse from Quran or Ahadith to support your point. Thanks.

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:smack:

I know you believe that your Lord is everywhere but we don’t - at least not the main stream Ahlus Sunnah. The ayah says that Allah Ta’ala raised him up to Himself. Do you know what does “up” mean? We believe that Allah Ta’ala is above the heavens separate from His creation. Hence up implies heavens! The ayah doesn’t say that Allah Ta’ala raised up his ruh! So, stop distorting the ayaat of the Qur’an.

It is amazing that you believe that for 14 centuries Muslims were holding onto a incorrect belief. Then suddenly your dajjal Mirza sahab poped up to correct “heretic” Muslims. Can you quote me a single earlier scholar from sahaba or tabi’een or taba tabi’een proving your aqeedah? Because our Prophet, Muhammad ibn Abdullah (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) told us that Salaf are best of his ummah

who said we are suppose to generalize this incident? Stop attacking us with a straw man! It is in fact you heretic kafirs, who are generalizing it. I said follow the context and sequence of events and the context also includes the belief of Christians. The key point in the context is to note the matter in which we differ with them.

answer my question: how many times did Allah Ta’ala specify in the Qur’an that he raised His Prophets or anyone for that matter - dead or alive?

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Verse number 3:144 uses the word " kadd khalat" to which you said means many and not all. Please refer to other verses in Quran 46:17, 41:25, 13:30, 2:134,( these verses refer earlier Ummah's passing away ) 33:38, 24:34 ( mentioning people passing away ), 5:75 (mentioning of Prophets passing away ). Note, the verse numbers i said here all uses the word "kadd khalat" , same word used in verse 3:144. It is not appropriate to translate one verse differently and other verses using the same word as completely different.

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*Earth is only the place where one shall live and die. *

Well, according to muslims, Isa(AS) will live and die in Earth but I can't see where Quran says "Earth is only the place where one shall live and die."

According to your understanding of the ayah humans didn't land on the moon because they can't live or die anywhere other than Earth.

I'll answer your second set of questions soon inshaAllah.

I suppose Ahmadis like Science and they don't deny the moon landings.

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Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

Don't feed the troll people. This individual just wants to see your thread closed. Don't give him the chance. Don't reply to him.

What makes me wonder though, how can someone like that make 370 posts without getting banned.

What a pathetic attempt.

Also the topic starter asked not to discuss Ahmadiya in this thread. So stop deviating the attention from the main topic.

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Read here http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-scripture/316863-what-marzee-religoin-way-3.html#post6442860 and tell me if these scholars of all major denominations; sunnis, shia, deobandi are mistaken too? I have quoted form following;

Hazrat Aishah, Hazrat Fatima, Imam Ibn Hazm Amawi Zahiri Qurtabi, Abul Hasan Ali Hajwairi Data Ganj Bakhsh, Hazrat Imam Hassan (ra), Hazrat Ibn-e-Abbaas (ra), Hazrat Jarood Bin Moallaa, Hazrat Imam Malik (r), Allama Qummi (Shia Scholar), Allama Jabbai (Shia Scholar), Allama Ibn-e-Teemiya, Allama Ibn-e-Qayyem, Allama Ibn-e-Hayyaan and Allama Shokani, Mahmud Shaltut former Mufti of Egypt and ex-Rector of al-Azhar University Cairo, Maulana Ubaidullah Sindhi (deobandi scholar), Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, Khwaja Hasan Nizami of Delhi, Allama Inayat-ullah Khan Mashriqi and Javaid Ahmad Ghamdi.

What is it these scholars not know that you do?

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Passed away also means "gone".

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Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

Ok people.. so far, we have discussed the verse 3:144, to which Hareem01 said means "many prophets have passed away " and not "all". Fair enough. We all now know what to search for now.. that is to understand the meaning of this verse which doesnt contradict with other verses of Quran.

Next point.. 21:08 (09 for some).. "And We did not give them bodies that ate no food, nor were they to live for ever*" *

25:21 ( 20 for some )..And We never sent any Messengers before thee but surely they ate food and walked in the streets. And We make some of you a trial for others. Will you *then *be steadfast? And thy Lord is All- Seeing.

5:75(76 for some) The Messiah, son of Mary, was **only a Messenger*; surely, Messengers like unto him **had indeed passed away* before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. T*hey both used to eat food*. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.

Question : *If Jesus AS was JUST a messenger and all messengers ate food and walked in the streets ( just like any normal human being ) , then the above verse says Jesus AS and Mary AS USED to eat food. They no longer do. What is wrong with this understanding? *

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Why not just use the term "gone" then? Why "passed away" which rather leads one to believe that they died. And also "gone" where?

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Love to, .. :slight_smile:

Source: 2. False propaganda by our opponents

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Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

Peace Mr. Popat

This is the first time I am posting on this thread and I would like to ask a couple of questions before I come right in to the thick end of this discussion.

My first question is:

If I were to stand on my two feet and then lift one up to stand on one foot am I standing on feet anymore?

Rather is it correct to say that if I am no longer standing on two feet, the possibilties that stem from this are that a) I am no longer standing and b) I am standing but on one foot?

Let's call this example the Beta Position.

My second question is:

If something is not negated in the Qur'an and not confirmed either, if it is either negated or confirmed in hadith then the hadith understanding as per consensus is to be the accepted understanding?

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Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

Psyah, if you read the verses i wrote in my first post, you will know for sure Quran is not negating the death of Isa AS. If Quran or Hadith does not confirm each and every prophet's death.. is it ok to believe that just like Jesus AS , many more Prophets may be alive in the heavens as well?

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remembering this verse from Quran.. (dont remember the verse number though).. "those who are blind in this world, will be blind in the hereafter too".. now, dont take this literally eh.. blind in a sense that whoever is spiritually blind will be blind in the hereafter. This suits you perfectly. Just calling yourself Muslim and amongst 1.66 Billion people will take you no where. A true seeker of truth will search Quran and confirm the verses I quoted as authentic. I dont mind you giving me your own translatation to the verses. You are welcome to do so. Please go right ahead.. and give some time to read Quran , the Quran which you so proudly claim to be following. How dare you call Quranic verses gibberish? Give respect to Holy Quran so that you may get respect in the hereafter.

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[QUOTE]
17:93 Or thou have a house of gold or thou ascend up into heaven; and we will not believe in thy ascension until thou send down to us a book that we can read.’ Say, ‘Holy is my Lord! I am not but a man sent as a Messenger

[/QUOTE]

please pay attention to the topic being mentioned in quran in surah 21 ayat 90 ---95

[They say: "We shall not believe in thee, until thou cause spring to gush forth for us from the earth (90)
"Or (until) thou have a garden of date trees and vines, and cause rivers to gush forth in their midst, carrying abundant water; (91)
"Or thou cause the sky to fall in pieces, as thou sayest (will happen), against us; or thou bring Allah and the angels before (us) face to face; (92) ]
"Or thou have a house adorned with gold, or thou mount a ladder right into the skies. No, we shall not even believe in thy mounting until thou send down to us a book that we could read." Say: "Glory to my Lord! Am I aught but a man a messenger?" (93)
What kept men back from Belief when Guidance came to them, was nothing but this: they said "Has Allah sent a man (like us) to be (His) Messenger?" (94)

Say "If there were settled, on earth angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for an messenger." (95)

Allah knows better ...He knew that these are just excuses and even if Mohammad climbed a ladder and sent a book down they will just make some more stupid demands. Allah took ISA up to heavens ...ISA did not wish himself up in heaven he was a human being. but ALLAH IS ALL POWERFUL.

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Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

[QUOTE]
5:75(76 for some) The Messiah, son of Mary, was **only a Messenger*; surely, Messengers like unto him **had indeed passed away* before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. T*hey both used to eat food*. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
[/QUOTE]

They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. (73)
Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (74

The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away! (75)
Say: Serve ye in place of Allah that which possesseth for you neither hurt nor use? Allah it is Who is the Hearer, the Knower. (76
Say: O People of the Scripture! Stress not in your religion other than the truth, and follow not the vain desires of folk who erred of old and led many astray, and erred from a plain road. (77

we know from Quran that people in heaven do eat . all that mention of delicious fruits and wines in quran...its to eat