Now you are talking Sensible...
So Shima Kirmani is doing a mujra for us to enjoy??Isn't it only matter of understanding & thinking....
Why don't you want to talk about girls & guys dancing & partying in the posh areas of Pakistani cities on the beats of western songs & Bhangra raps???The thing that is not only disgraceful but also completely out of teachings of Islam....
Does it not count that she's not dancing for your pleasure or for the pleasure of any other man?
Intention also counts a great deal in Islam. When Islam came, Arab culture was not completely discarded. It was altered a bit to suit Islamic needs. Nonetheless, Arabs didn't give up their dress-style. They just altered it.
Likewise, no one is saying she should be out in the open dancing in front of men FOR THEIR PLEASURE. In fact, if you want to talk about unIslamic dancing that doesn't represent our culture, lets talk about Heera Mandi. This is nothing in comparison.
And don't even get me started on the other million things in our culture that are against Islam - like treating a girl like a piece of meat when considering her for marriage.
How come I don't see your presence in those types of threads, denouncing our cultural practices as demonic and barbaric?
Its easy to go after easy targets.
Dance is an essential part of almost all cultures of Pakistan. Denying that is denying reality.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Islamabad: *
If you are not a Muslim, you don't even have to be in this thread and be part of this discussion.
[/QUOTE]
Check the title of ur post again.. its siad about Pakistani culture! so why a non-muslim who is Pakistani cant discuss it? Are u implying that a non-muslim is not Pakistani or Pakistani non-muslims are less patriotic than Pakistani muslims ..
Sister pcg,
One thing needs to be clarified here. Your statement about ‘intention’, especially in the context of this discussion, is not correct.
It is true that every deed depends on a person’s intention. However, there is mor to this statement. This rule applies only to the relationship between Allah and that person. That is how Allah will judge that person’s act(s). e.g. if somone is fasting only to show off his piety, Allah will give him no reward for it. As far as a person’s behaviour in public, there are definite rules defined in Shariah. These rules, as we know, have been derived from Quran and Sunnah. No matter what the intention in mind is, if a person violates the rules then he will be held responsible. e.g. if a person starts prostrating (doing a sajda) to an idol in public, he will be regarded as doing shirk. The fact that his intention was good is of no relavence in this scenario.
Similary, Quran and Sunnah has defined a code of conduct for both men and women. This includes the code of dressing, public behaviour etc. I don’t want to go into a detailed discussion of what they are (there must be many detailed books on this topic. Read Surah Noor and Surah Nisa.). While these codes might be flexible under certain conditions, twisting them at one’s own discretion is not allowed.
The posted picture does not comply with the Islamic code of conduct by any means. It does not matter what the lady’s intention was, it still is wrong (e.g. you might say she was doing that to raise funds for social work… she chose the improper way to raise funds).
References:
http://www.islamicdawah.mobilixnet.dk/islam/men/haya%20for%20men.htm
“Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty…….” (Surah Nur, 30-31)
Abdullah ibn Umar (ra) narrated that the Prophet (saw) said: “Indeed haya (modesty) and Iman are Companions. When one of them is lifted, the other leaves as well.” (Baihaqi)
Wallahu Alam
Dear Islamabad,
Johout boulney say ya nahe hou sakta kay sub loug yaqeen kar lein.
Hergez qaide azam ya allama iqbal Pakistan kou muslim houkomat nahe bana na chahtey thay.
Wou loug mousalmanou key houkoumat bana na chahtey thay.
It has lot of difference in meaning.
Quaide azam shia thay our bohat sakht shia. Wou apney paoun per kolharey nahe mar saktey thay. Kay jamate islami apney qisam key khilafat ka boul bala karay.
Isshe wagha sa jamate islami qaide azam kay khelaf thi. Or pakistan ben nay kay khilaf thi. Abhe wou loug baqi hein, zinda hein.jou asal baat jante hein.
oun dinou, khouch loug keya nara laga rahay thay??? iss sey cahna kay hum ney ye sounna or wou souna, Sunna karein!!!! pakistan kay secular state key khouheish badal nahe sak tey.
Dousra shakhs jes ka kouey nam nahe ley ta wou raja sahab mahmouda abad thay. Wou bei shia thay, un key aoulad zinda hei . Qaide azam kay saadh apna rajwara beaach kar aaei thay. Un kay paessoun say in the beginning pakistan bought qalam pencil and etc etc to start offices.
If some one who had done conspiracy to murder qaide azam were those who were against his idea of secularism.
All those who migrated the most were shia , due to the fact that qaide azam could convinced them the most. Jamate islami and all most prejudice gentry who wanted to have islamic government in pakistan did stay back home in india during those days.
Now when they talk we have heard this or that kind of NAAREY , those were mere NAAREY no substance.
So Pakistan is for all muslims and specially for all those who or more part of qaide azam to suport his idea and were shia muslims. Not for muppet sajjid naqvi (today's moullana, who is the tongue of all those who give fatwa to kill shias and go to jannat, also ---who is bekaou)
so please do not pay attenton to liars, or those who were qaide azam's enemy then, and ab qaide azam key mehnat kou harap karna chahtay hein.
Saara islam gaher mein rakhe ye . Her iek janta hei kay jannat keya hei or ous key ley ye keya karna hei.
Pakistan is the out come of a shia person's hard work. No one can deny it. And shias are against sunni kind of government, in totality.Do remember. Killing them does not solve the purpose of many ----they are still very strong. It is impossible that today's moullana take benefit of others hard work and bring afghanistan kind of moulla umer's talban type government.
Culture of Pakistan is Mughal rulers culture, or Eareans, it was not arab culture. Do not mix up pakistani cuture with arabs in every thing now. This dance is Pakistani culture, full stop. those who do not want to see kindly must change their channel of tv. Bye sokoon
You've got something up your ass that hasnt been fixed in 50 years. You're Indian, 50 years wont get you a different culture...your culture's Indian.
hmm...most of those who migrated were shia? karachi had the most migrants in pakistan and majority of karachi's population is sunni..what happened? and muhammad ali jinnah was not very religious, so you cant describe him as "kattar" or strict shia.. he did not believe in religion so he was neutral in terms of what sect he favored.
sokon you need to get your facts straight, not every thing is the result of hard work of shias. tomorrow you will say that neil armstrong was shia too.
Dear Tanda mazaq,
Yes karachi has more sunnis, than emamies because their percentage is more. But
if you ask any friend of Quaide Azam or read the books written by his friends about him, for example if you read liaqat Ali's book you would see he has written that Quaide Azam was very religious.
Or if you read Syed Hashim Raza's book or ask his sons what their father used to say about Quaide Azam, you would hear he was very religious.
Or if you read book of Agha Mirza Mohammed Hashim Kashmeri about Quaide Azam or ask his sons about quaide azam, what their father used to say about him, they would say he was very religious.
Also if you ask the sons of Raja sahab of mahmoudaabad , they would say that their father said that quaide azam was very religious. The islamic research centre in Uk is founded and funded by salman, son of Raja sahab of mahmoudaabad. A closest friend of Quaide Azam.
Shias do not believe in doing PERCHAR of what kind of muslims they are? they believe it that religion is between them and GOD, very personal. No need of telling about the kind of believe they have. Also Quaide Azam never showed off to be strong shia, because it would have creater friction between muslims, what all shias do not want.
Also Jammate Islami of those days was enough against QAide AZam and they did not migrate behind him, so it was totally unwise for quaide azam to even indicate the kind of muslim was he. He wanted pakistan a home land for oppressed people in india, and those were muslims undoubtedly without TAFREEQ E GAERI. But he had done the waseyat to burry him like shia. It shows he was strong shia, but above all firqas his objective was a strong pakistan. But those who did not backed him had---------him. Tanda mazaq truth is truth , deniel does not change the facts. This is what proves the pakistan was made on two nation theory not for making khelafat in pakistan as Quaid e azam was against it like all other emamies shia etc.
Bye sokoon
This thread has as many pictures in it as two-liners in the cafe.
We don't need any CULTURE.....
Just follow ISLAM (Quran & Sunnah) & we'll have automatically "The ISLAMIC culture"
So, don't be depressive......!!!!
JUST follow ISLAM!!!
islam
So let not the speech of the Kuffar grieve you and do not deviate from the path of the Haq even a hairbreadth until you see the Victory of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta'aala) and the glory and power of Islam and the Muslims, or you meet Allah I while He (Subhanahu Wa Ta'aala) is pleased with you.
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“And let not their speech grieve you (O Muhammad), for all power and honour belongs to Allah” [TMQ Yunus: 65]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Islamabad: *
What more can I say? Maybe you have never been to the Pakistan outside the city of Karachi.
It may be hard to understand for you. Islam is a culture in itself. It has certain rules, laws and norms. Their is an Islamic way of thinking that defines a Muslim's character. The problem is that these days people have just become Muslims by name or Muslims because they were born in a Muslim home.
Your culture may be very Indian. You may love their movies and their way of dressing and food. That is what you are. I am not. I have nothing in common with Indians, nor do the people I know. From a wedding to somebody's death, nothing that I experience is similar to the Hindu cultrure. Actually it is a difference between the Islamic culture and the Hindu culture. Both are worlds apart.
The choice is yours- Hinduism or complete way of life of Islam. But for that you have to sincerely think about opening the Quran and reading and understanding it. Nobody will live in this world forever. It is what we take forward -our deeds and the way we lead our lives. Consider this my last answer. Realize what great message we have as Muslims - the Quran and the Sunnah.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry for not replying sooner..
I have been In Karachi but originaly from Chakwal region in Punjab.
Anyways... I know what your trying to say, but you dont seem to understand the concept of Rreligion and culture. Those to things are not the same. You are a Pashthun, a Punjabi would be Punjabi. Only similaairty is in religion. But our cultures are very different, so similarity but very different none the less. Language is different, our food are different, our music, our dances are all different. There are many similarities due to our proximity, but it is different. Now take a Muslim from Turkey, how similar is his culture to yours? Not very. In fact a Turkish Christian or Jew has more in comman with a Turkish Muslim then you would. They eat completely different food, they speak a completely different language, they dont even think the same way. Point of all this is to show you that THERE IS NO ISLAMIC culture. Islam never told us to eat certain foods only, or dress in certain clothes only, or dance in a certain way. Islam is only a religion, it is not a culture. Thus you cant say one aspect of culture is "Islamic" while another isnt.
By the way, the Languages we speak, they are not Iislamic either, the only Islamic language is Arab supposedly going by your logic. So every other language was a language of Kafirs.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
we reject any culture that has its origins in pagan religion and we deny being part of it. we only follow that which is islam or that conforms to its laws. and you said stop celebrating basant? well i am all for that. its kafir festival and we seek refuge with allah from celebrating it. and musical instruments? oh my, we agree so much, yeah all musical instruments are haram too, we should destroy them.
but the zero..well zero is part of mathematics and mathematics is natural. if hindus had not discovered it, some one else might have. dont live in your dreams that if it was not for hindus we wouldnt have zero. it was bound to be discovered because all basic mathamatics depends on it. and besides things invented by kafirs are not haram if they perform halal operations, and likewise things invented by muslims are not halal if they perform haram operations.
but in the end, that dance might be part of our culture in the past, but i dont find honor in it, nor do i even consider part of my lineage. muslims and hindus are not the same, and can never be.
[/QUOTE]
Serously yaar, you are completely ridiculous. Your about as logical as cow turd. I feel im wasting my time but call me stupid, I just cant help it. You know, WHAT ABOUT LANGUAGE, why are you speaking English, why are any of us speaking languages that arent Arabic? English, Urdu, Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, Kashmiri, Pashtho, these are all originally "Kafir" languages and many are still spoken by the so called "kafirs." And forget Music, what about Cricket or most other cports? Or are you against that aswell?
As for the zero, yes you got around my logic... amazing. If zero was so basic however, why hadnt they discovered the concept sooner, and why hadn't the Muslims gotten to it first?
Still if anyone other then the Hindus were to discover it, it would have probably been some liother kafir group.. Because with idiots like you calling themselves muslim, were lucky we can even tie our shoes.
By the way, who is this "we" you refer to when you say "we reject yada yade" I dont think anyone not even Islamabad who started this thread would agree with most of your nonsense.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
I tend to see both sides of the picture on this one. Whereas we are definitely culturally and religiously different from Indians owing to the very specific influence of a group of largely religiously-homogenous people living together over time has on the culture of that place. our culture, almost every part of it is tinged with, shaped, limited by our specific religious norms. our cultural notions of honour for example, are inevitably motivated by an exagerrated religious abhorrence of promiscuity that is not shared by those across the border.
but then, our culture is not divorced from the countries on any side of our borders. we share a great deal with afghanistan, iran and india simply because cultural trends arent spikes, but smooth curves over the landscape. thereby some cultural similarities might be expected. even within pakistan, theres a number of transitioning ethnicities between bordering areas like punjab and nwfp, like punjab and sindh.
and the language similarity is overrated. i get so annoyed with indian hindi at times because of the need to decipher the meaning of everything from context. likewise they dont understand a lot of what i say unless i reconfigure my sentence.
ofcourse then theres the fact that "Indian" culture is a misnomer itself, given that cultural features are very different across different parts of (pre and post partition) India.
For this particular dancer, I guess very niche groups would be appreciative of what she does. I guess Shazia Khushk is probably much more representative of Pakistani culture than sheema kirmani. Most of these dances harken back to courtesans of Mughal emperor days.. so in a sense they do represent Muslim India.. but not necessarily ones that Muslim ladies would like to remember or relive.
Oddly enough, shes a feminist too.
[/QUOTE]
Well said.. Now it comes down to basically are we proud of our heritage or are we going to bury it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
that does indeed look like sheema ji.
Well, what is pakistani culture then, if its not Indian culture or if its not Arab culture. Can those who advocate that Pakistani culture is unique tell me of those defining characteristics you wont find in other cultures?
[/QUOTE]
They cant, they would rather bury their heads in the ground and keep telling us the same thing nonsensical crap over and over.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *
btw for those who've asked what is PAKISTANI culture
guys
we mashallah have a very rich cultural heritage, each province/region has a distinct and rich culture, from language to dress to food and lifestyle and cultural traditions
sindh has its own culture, siraiki belt has its own culture, punjab has it own culture, kashmir has its own culture, northern areas/sarhad its own, balochistan, and makran their own culture
we've got such a rich culture mashallah, its beautiful, healthy and decent
and stuff like whats been shown in this picture is NOT our culture!
[/QUOTE]
Atleast Punjab, Sindh, and Kashmir have a culture very similar if not almost identical to India side. For example, I find more similarity in taste and ingredient and style of cooking between the two Punjabs then I do with the food and style of cooking found in NWFP. Also, I dont remember the last time I could converse with a Sindhi or Pashthun in Punjabi, but i know i can with a Sikh for India. Then there's NWFP and Balochistan culture which is really Afghani, and ofcourse Afghanistan is not a part of PAKISTAN.
So really, while there is culture in Pakistan, it really mix of cultures from other places. Really the question is, which of the cultures are we to accept, sadly, because of our Islamic bias, we refuse to accept any Nnon muslim culture as our own. Ofcourse forget that we all have non muslim ancestors and are surounded by non Muslim culture thats almost indistinguishable.
lol… 
who sedd it is?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shah Sur Khan: *
Good Job Pakpatriot1, good to see someone with a little common sense.
The thing is that these Islamists have been brainwashed, many thanks is do to Pakistani books that teach their flaw linages etc. etc. For them its like Pakistan never was a part of India, though if you go from Karachi to Mumbai, you can hardly tell the difference. Same Mosques, same music, same food, same bollywood billboards over the cities, same language of communication!!!! In fact many Pakistanis speak "HINDI" rather then "URDU". Those who are educated speak Urdu, you can tell by their wording, though majority of Pakistanis speak Hindi, thanks to Amitab Bachan and likes.
[/QUOTE]
How ignorant, firstly it is not Hindi, hardly anyone speaks Urdu or Hindi, Hindi is what they speak on Star News and Urdu is what's spoken on PTV News or at some Mushaira.
The language they speak in "Hindi" movies or what an average Indian or Paki would speak is called "Hindustani", it is a combination of Urdu and Hindi.