islamabad..why is this an issue for you? why the sudden need to define pakistani culture? what u think pakistani culture is may not by what another pakistani thinks. culture is baqwaas..nationalism is baqwaas..you know that..so she's a bharat natyam dancer...maybe she thinks its a part of her pakistani culture..and you don't for whatever reasons..so what. we're not in this world to explain to people what our culture is..and what it isn't..because it simply doesn't matter. our job is to explain islam..but to keep in mind..that muslims are not perfect..but islam is...and if an muslim wants to indulge in dancing and the arts..and share with kaffir..that's their thing...you and I know its wrong..but technically..we're not here to be so judgemental..let Allah swt do that part. i gave up kathak..after embracing islam..because i know its wrong..whether the majority of desi muslims practice it or not. also keep in mind..that pakistan does not represent islam..since like i said...islam is perfect..and pakistan is not..just because it was named land of the pure..doesn't people everyone in pakistan is pure or anything of that nature. side note to all guppies: don't mean to demean pakistani's in any way..don't take it out of context and create drama.
shes ugly
this topic is again ON
:)
It's called..CULTURE DIFFUSION!!! ;)
It's not pakistani culture at all.. CULTURE means LIFESTYLE..and i don't find any pakistani dressed like that..
MYTH # 1
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PaKpatriot1: *
There are two Indias, the India which is a country, and India that is a culture. Im not saying we belong to India the country.
We belong to India the culture1
[/quote]
I'm not sure if you have read ancient history or know something about it. India or rather Bharat never exited before the arrival of the British. The country that they call Bharat today, is made up of 'mini countries with their own history and culture." India was unified and captured under one goverment. Last time I checked the definition of Nation is something that bounds history or culture together. Bharat (or modern india) doesn't fit this defintition. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS INDIAN CULTURE. You can't generalize or give a uniform characteristics to a VAST regions, which has over 2000 languages spoken , alone in Bharat.
The popular "indian culture' word fits the culture of bollywood, which is thrusted down the throats of most people in this region.
MYTH # 2:
[quote]
Pakistan does not have its own culture, it is a mix of all kinds of cultures just like the rest of the Indian subcontinent. This great melting pot of cultures that includes Persian, Arab, Indian, Afghan, even British is what we call the Indian culture.
[/quote]
Again, back to our historical lesson. **Pakistan was the center of the world's most ancient country that had a unified urban goverment. The INDUS country with it's culture has infact influenced China, Bharat, and the rest of region around it. Pakistan was first in history, so it does have a culture. **The indus culture 'was called indian'. Since most poeple confuse it with modern "india' we need to specifically called it indus culture and indus country.
[quote]
Just simply saying were Pakistanis is meaningless, because Pakistan is a country not a culture.
[/QUOTE]
PAKISTAN IS A CULTURE. ** Our culture belongs to thousands of year of our ancestors who inhabited the exact same place and boundries just as we did. This makes us an ancient country just like Egypt. **
THERE IS SOMTHING WRONG WITH THE NARRATIVE OF PAKISTANI HISTORY NOT PAKISTAN!!!
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by risingsun: *
**MYTH # 1*
I'm not sure if you have read ancient history or know something about it. India or rather Bharat never exited before the arrival of the British. The country that they call Bharat today, is made up of 'mini countries with their own history and culture." India was unified and captured under one goverment. Last time I checked the definition of Nation is something that bounds history or culture together. Bharat (or modern india) doesn't fit this defintition. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS INDIAN CULTURE. You can't generalize or give a uniform characteristics to a VAST regions, which has over 2000 languages spoken , alone in Bharat.
The popular "indian culture' word fits the culture of bollywood, which is thrusted down the throats of most people in this region.
MYTH # 2:
Again, back to our historical lesson. **Pakistan was the center of the world's most ancient country that had a unified urban goverment. The INDUS country with it's culture has infact influenced China, Bharat, and the rest of region around it. Pakistan was first in history, so it does have a culture. **The indus culture 'was called indian'. Since most poeple confuse it with modern "india' we need to specifically called it indus culture and indus country.
PAKISTAN IS A CULTURE. ** Our culture belongs to thousands of year of our ancestors who inhabited the exact same place and boundries just as we did. This makes us an ancient country just like Egypt. **
THERE IS SOMTHING WRONG WITH THE NARRATIVE OF PAKISTANI HISTORY NOT PAKISTAN!!!
[/QUOTE]
To your first response...
Yes I have read a lot of History including Indias. India may not have been a nation until the British came, but there has always been an India... Its borders have always been defined. China to the north, east asia to the east, Iran, and Afghanistan to the West (Hungh Sung the Chinese travler from the 6th century didnt claim to have entered India till he got to Modern day Pakistan.)
There is an overall Indian culture, just the way Europeans have a certain cultural identity, so does India. Yes there are many shades to the Indian culture, but you have to admit that there is a certain underlying feature to these cultures that is inextricably Indian. Food, dance, language, art, history, these things tend to transcend through out the subcontinent. Our languages may be different, but they have A LOT in comman. Punjabi, Sindhi, Kashmiri, Gujrati, Urdu, Hindi, Pashto, Bengali, all these language are influenced by each other. Why, because of this overall Indian culture. And India does bind culture and History together, I dont know how India doesnt do that... If you could just explain that. But point is, we are all influenced just like everyone else in the subcontinent by this over Indian culture. Regardless of how different we are, there is the underlying Indian cultural influence... We certainly are more similar to Indians then we are to Iranians, has to be reason for that.
And when I refer to Indian culture im not talking about Bollywood, that is soemthing thats solely Indian, as in the nation. What im talking about is something more, much more visceral...
Egypt is a nation because it was inhabited by a single type of people for the most part, and they had One single culture... Most of the people who live there now, are direct descendants of those who lived in ancienT
Egypt.. In Pakistan, we dont even know who are ancestors are, were all mixed up, some claim to be arab, some central asian, other say their persian, some are locals... The ancestors you speak of were Hindus, Buddhists, and farther back who knows what they were. I dont know who they were, where they went, or even if they were our ancestors. And the Kingdoms of these people werent always confined to the modern borders of Pakistan. The Punjab for example, was always India and Pakistani Punjab together. The name itself tells you, land of Punj-ab, few of those abs are now in India. NWFP was a part of Afghanistan for a large part of its history, and ofcourse the ancient Buddhist civilization with its capital in taxila and extending into Afghanistan. When the Indus civilization was around, there was no Pakistan, those people had no clue that one day their city would be a ruin within the modern confine of the Pak border. So you cant use them to define Pak culture, they werent Pakistanis, and they werent Muslim (a lot of people would deny they were part of our cultural history becasue they werent Muslim)...Also, remember the Aryans also invaded, they went through modern day Pakistan, many settled there, hence the large Hindu population before the coming of Islam. These people are obviously a part of Indian history, and Indian culture, so are you saying that they are also Pakistans cultural history? Alot of Hindu legends extend into Pakistani territory, a large part of the Mahabarta for example took place in Pakistani territoty supposedly.
As for the narrative of Pakstani history, it started in 1945, before then it was an all Indian narrative.
[edit] I changed my stance..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PaKpatriot1: *
To your first response...
Yes I have read a lot of History including Indias. India may not have been a nation until the British came, but there has always been an India... Its borders have always been defined. China to the north, east asia to the east, Iran, and Afghanistan to the West (Hungh Sung the Chinese travler from the 6th century didnt claim to have entered India till he got to Modern day Pakistan.)
There is an overall Indian culture, just the way Europeans have a certain cultural identity, so does India. Yes there are many shades to the Indian culture, but you have to admit that there is a certain underlying feature to these cultures that is inextricably Indian. Food, dance, language, art, history, these things tend to transcend through out the subcontinent. Our languages may be different, but they have A LOT in comman. Punjabi, Sindhi, Kashmiri, Gujrati, Urdu, Hindi, Pashto, Bengali, all these language are influenced by each other. Why, because of this overall Indian culture. And India does bind culture and History together, I dont know how India doesnt do that... If you could just explain that. But point is, we are all influenced just like everyone else in the subcontinent by this over Indian culture. Regardless of how different we are, there is the underlying Indian cultural influence... We certainly are more similar to Indians then we are to Iranians, has to be reason for that.
And when I refer to Indian culture im not talking about Bollywood, that is soemthing thats solely Indian, as in the nation. What im talking about is something more, much more visceral...
Egypt is a nation because it was inhabited by a single type of people for the most part, and they had One single culture... Most of the people who live there now, are direct descendants of those who lived in ancienT
Egypt.. In Pakistan, we dont even know who are ancestors are, were all mixed up, some claim to be arab, some central asian, other say their persian, some are locals... The ancestors you speak of were Hindus, Buddhists, and farther back who knows what they were. I dont know who they were, where they went, or even if they were our ancestors. And the Kingdoms of these people werent always confined to the modern borders of Pakistan. The Punjab for example, was always India and Pakistani Punjab together. The name itself tells you, land of Punj-ab, few of those abs are now in India. NWFP was a part of Afghanistan for a large part of its history, and ofcourse the ancient Buddhist civilization with its capital in taxila and extending into Afghanistan. When the Indus civilization was around, there was no Pakistan, those people had no clue that one day their city would be a ruin within the modern confine of the Pak border. So you cant use them to define Pak culture, they werent Pakistanis, and they werent Muslim (a lot of people would deny they were part of our cultural history becasue they werent Muslim)...Also, remember the Aryans also invaded, they went through modern day Pakistan, many settled there, hence the large Hindu population before the coming of Islam. These people are obviously a part of Indian history, and Indian culture, so are you saying that they are also Pakistans cultural history? Alot of Hindu legends extend into Pakistani territory, a large part of the Mahabarta for example took place in Pakistani territoty supposedly.
As for the narrative of Pakstani history, it started in 1945, before then it was an all Indian narrative.
[/QUOTE]
cant agree more...
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by risingsun: *
**MYTH # 1*
I'm not sure if you have read ancient history or know something about it. India or rather Bharat never exited before the arrival of the British. The country that they call Bharat today, is made up of 'mini countries with their own history and culture." India was unified and captured under one goverment. Last time I checked the definition of Nation is something that bounds history or culture together. Bharat (or modern india) doesn't fit this defintition. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS INDIAN CULTURE. You can't generalize or give a uniform characteristics to a VAST regions, which has over 2000 languages spoken , alone in Bharat.
The popular "indian culture' word fits the culture of bollywood, which is thrusted down the throats of most people in this region.
MYTH # 2:
Again, back to our historical lesson. **Pakistan was the center of the world's most ancient country that had a unified urban goverment. The INDUS country with it's culture has infact influenced China, Bharat, and the rest of region around it. Pakistan was first in history, so it does have a culture. **The indus culture 'was called indian'. Since most poeple confuse it with modern "india' we need to specifically called it indus culture and indus country.
PAKISTAN IS A CULTURE. ** Our culture belongs to thousands of year of our ancestors who inhabited the exact same place and boundries just as we did. This makes us an ancient country just like Egypt. **
THERE IS SOMTHING WRONG WITH THE NARRATIVE OF PAKISTANI HISTORY NOT PAKISTAN!!!
[/QUOTE]
i dont know where u get all this info. Concept of nation is new too. earlier it was kingdoms and same culture had different kingdoms. British came to bharat or indus vally civilization they made it India. You cannot say "there is no such thing as indian culture", this is the biggest ignorance and idotic thought a grown man can have. India is a culture , worlds most number of religions were born here. Even tho it is worlds oldest civilization it still retains its values. If only exposure you have to india is from bollywood then man i dont know what to say. I wont wonder if after watching mr india you would say indians have power of invisibility.....
be rational and open your eyes.
This is Shema Kirmani and she has performed even on PTV and STN too .
Its indian and I think it sis bharat natyam