Is this friendship illegal

I have nowhere to discuss this without coming across as strange for pursuing sich a friendship. I have told one Pakistani Australian friend and she said my story sets off alarm bells. She said i should be careful and not overstep the mark or meet this friend again in person. I could get in trounle since i first met her when i was her doctor and she was my patient.

So it started when i had a weekend shift at the hospital. She was one of maybe 100 patients i was looking after in the wards. I saw her name in the list of patients and immediately i guessed she could be Pakistani. There are plenty of Pakistani docs where i work and quite a few Pakistani patients. Being an Indian it might sound strange but whenever i see a Pakistani patient i feel a connection and i am pulled towards them to go out of the way to help them. I was seeing a patient in the bed next to her. When i was walking past i saw a glimpse of her in her dupatta and chador. It was midday and her family had not come to visit her yet. There was just something in her eyes something deeper and a story behind her sad smile which made me want to be friends.

It was a Saturday and i was torn the rest of the day as to whether I should introduce myself. Most likely after today i would never see her again as she would go home tomorrow. I had only known about her for that one day. So when my 14 hr shift visited i decided to introduce myself. Her husband had left as it was late. So i went to her bedside she was still awake.

I introduced myself and asked her how she had been. I told her this might seem strange but i had seen ur name and noticed ur presence here..i asked her if she was Pakistani. She said she was and had come from this city of Gujrat. The place where Sohni Mahiwal’s story originated.

I told her i had heard a coke studio song about sohni mahiwal. 2 yrs ago she had come to Australia after marriage. She had given birth to a child recently and was having a tough time balancing things. She did not have family or many friends. She said her husband worked long hours. Before they had travelled a lot together now they didnt have as much time.

She had wanted to go to mother/ child clinics but transport had been an issue. We talked about Pakistani dramas and i mentioned to her about all the Pakistani friends in Pakistan i had made. Like all online friends some had gone some had stayed. She felt sad for me for the online friends tht i had lost contact with. She said her father was in Pak air force but had many Indian friends. She told me she always wanted to make indian friends and told her dad she wanted to visit one day. Just like i had wanted to visit Pakistan. Its like i found my counterpart. She said after our meeting she would tell her dad and husband she made a new indian friend and they would be happy for her. I told her it was lucky i came back to meet her after work or this start of a friendship would never happen. She gave me her number. I told her when i saw her i was reminded of my Pakistani friends i had made online.

Next day she wished me good morning and for the next week we have been messaging each other. I researched about home visits by nurses/midwives in the hospital so she could get help with feeding/unsettled behaviour of her baby. I spoke as if i was the doctor who took care of her. I booked a breastfeeding nurse to come see her and they said they would call her. They were aware of her transport issues. I encouraged her to get her driving licence here.

When she was worried about her child I told her she needs to take care of her health as well then only will she have energy to take care of her child. She said when her child is older she wants to pursue accounting. I sent her links to some universities including online ones.

I want to be able to help her adjust to new life here. I want her to make most of life. She gets sad because her mum in Pakistan ks bed bound and she misses home. I went on some Pakistani aus pages and asked if there were any cultural female only events in the area. Didnt get a response yet. I found links to some muslim organisations offering educational classes and mum/baby groups.

She said she will go when her baby is older. I told her not to worry about transport when i have a free day she can book an appointment and we can go together. She lives 40+ min from me. I dont know if i am doing too much or offering more than i should. I want her to see me as a friend not as the doctor who met her that day. Its true that maybe our paths would never have crossed had i not introduced myself. I think its the start of a beautiful friendship but i dont want the circumstances in which we met to be an issue.

She thanked me for doing all this research for her and for my help. She sent me a pic that said sisters are second blessing after mothers. I said she didnt have to thank me. I just fulfilled the duty of a good friend and she is like a younger sister for me.

I asked her about urdu words i didnt know meaning of and she was surprised she could help me with something. I suggested to her while her baby is small and if she wanted to do something she could do home tutoring of urdu for children here. I told her she could become friends with the Pakistani friends i had here who had lived here many yrs.

Am i helping her or am i making her emotionally dependent on me? Is it right of me to give her advice considering i met her in a hospital setting? Would it be wrong if i drove to her house to help her? Or helped her get to appointments by driving her?

Friends help each other. I asked my Pakistani australian friend of 11 yrs and she said if i met her in private or at her house or if i drove her anywhere i could get in trouble. Should i only stay friends on phone? Am i doing too much in this friendship? Where should i cross the line-at meeting her in real life or driving her to urgent places? How do i help her feel welcome in a new country?

Its tricky because i know they say u should not be friends with patients but she was never really my patient and neither is she my current patient. She does ask me questions about her and her baby. I dont know much on this but i google and answer her. But i dont want her to see me as a medical professional but as just a friend.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

i don’t think there is any restriction on the relationship a physician by profession can have privately with someone who is a patient of some other doctor [as long as he/she is NOT his/her patient].

once i saw this Indian doctor in a walk-in clinic. he had interest in Urdu poetry so it clicked between us. we became friends…i and my wife used to go to Mushairas with him and his wife…i lost contact with him because he moved to New Delhi where he works at Fortis Hospital.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

In that case…you should just move in with her, doc. That way you’ll get to fully immerse yourself in the Pakistaaniat that you feel so deeply passionate about. :k:

Re: Is this friendship illegal

LOL RV!

As for the post, I don’t think there should be an issue with you being a friend of hers. However, regarding the emotionally dependent bit. You did mention that she has a husband and she is pregnant. I do think in this case, there should be some boundaries that you shouldn’t cross. It is not good for her to get emotionally dependent, neither it is good for you to do too much for her.

Sometimes we help people way too much and in the end they just end up taking us for grated. They end up using us and we end up getting used. It is great that you want to help her settle in a new country, but you must not forget that she has a husband. Maybe her husband won’t like her being really good friends with you and you driving her around. Maybe the husband can become paranoid and suspicious for no reason. It happens. Especially since she has come from Pakistan and it has only been around 2 years in Australia.

Admirable of you to be helpful to her, but stay in limits too. Instead of driving her yourself, hire her a cab etc. Let her be independent and know her way around the city herself. You won’t be able to do these kinds of things for her always.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

You are such an incredible human being, good on you to be so caring. I wish there were more people like you. There would be legal and liability issues that professionals need to worry about so I would say keep things at a professional level. For example if she is driving with you would you have coverage to be driving a previous patient, what if she started calling you at work for personal reasons etc. I was going to drive a client around as I felt bad for her situation but my colleagues advised against it.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Thanks for the reply KKF. Great to see u back. Thats great to know u connected because of your interest in poetry and ended up having a good friendship.
Living in the west where laws are stricter.
I dont think my friendship will be illegal but dont want to be seen as crossing any boundaries. In this situation it seems to be greyer.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Thanks for the reply redvelvet. Great to see u again and great to read all your advice. I know ure joking..not sure if her or her husband want me that much in their lives lol..but i have gupshup and friends here to keep me immersed in Pakistani culture. I dont know if people think im obsessed but i cant seem to help it. I watch Pakistani dramas, have a few real life Pakistani friends and a nunber of online Pakistani friends but always on lookout for more. :)this time it seems my real life pakistani friendship world and online world are merging into one. My Pakistani friends here are born and brought up abroad. My online Pakistani friends are similar to her. They are religious, some liberal some conservative, have same type of dupatta and are easy to talk to. But like with friends online who live faraway sometimes they are there and sometimes they disappear for a long period of time. So in her ive found both types of friendship. Sometimes i worry i will overdo helping her and it might be seen as a problem.

I genuinely want to help her out because we have a connection. She moves from Pakistan 2 yrs ago and only knows family friends from her husband’s side. Both sets of parents are in Pakistan. Her mother in law is visiting till this weekend and then goes back. She says her mother is bed bound and cant travel. I suggested she stay in contact by skype video.

I rarely post questions here but i feel people here can help me out most. I dont think im doing anything great. Life is short and if have some knowledge which can help people we should. We live in Australia where there arent as many Pakistani organisations as the US, UK or Canada.

I found a few Muslim womens organisations that run classes. She said she will go when her 4 week baby is older. Right now she is feeling too overwhelmed with taking care of her baby who is having sleep issues/being unsettled. She was telling me how she had many friends in Pakistan and they would hang out. Here she feels bored but doesnt have to be that way. When she finds right friends and right support her life here can be the same. She can do some work from home later on like teach Urdu. She said when she is teaching her child she will teach me as well.

United Muslim Women Association Inc. muslim womens association australia..

Contact Us - Australian Muslim Womens Association ek aur unka number hai
They have a timetable of classes

https://www.babycenter.com.au/g25005355/muslim-mummies

Then i contacted this Pakistani paper called sada e watan and emailed them about pakistani groups and especially mothers groups in the area. I am struggling for any Pakistani specific info that can help her in australia

I sent her a few ost of dramas i like. She might want to watch them.
Does it seem like im doing too much or going overboard?

I am going to tell her to join gupshup if she goes online much. She can really benefit from the forum on mother’s issues.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Thanks for the reply redvelvet. Great to see u again and great to read all your advice. I know ure joking..not sure if her or her husband want me that much in their lives lol..but i have gupshup and friends here to keep me immersed in Pakistani culture. I dont know if people think im obsessed but i cant seem to help it. I watch Pakistani dramas, have a few real life Pakistani friends and a nunber of online Pakistani friends but always on lookout for more. :)this time it seems my real life pakistani friendship world and online world are merging into one. My Pakistani friends here are born and brought up abroad. My online Pakistani friends are similar to her. They are religious, some liberal some conservative, have same type of dupatta and are easy to talk to. But like with friends online who live faraway sometimes they are there and sometimes they disappear for a long period of time. So in her ive found both types of friendship. Sometimes i worry i will overdo helping her and it might be seen as a problem.

I genuinely want to help her out because we have a connection. She moves from Pakistan 2 yrs ago and only knows family friends from her husband’s side. Both sets of parents are in Pakistan. Her mother in law is visiting till this weekend and then goes back. She says her mother is bed bound and cant travel. I suggested she stay in contact by skype video.

I rarely post questions here but i feel people here can help me out most. I dont think im doing anything great. Life is short and if have some knowledge which can help people we should. We live in Australia where there arent as many Pakistani organisations as the US, UK or Canada.

I found a few Muslim womens organisations that run classes. She said she will go when her 4 week baby is older. Right now she is feeling too overwhelmed with taking care of her baby who is having sleep issues/being unsettled. She was telling me how she had many friends in Pakistan and they would hang out. Here she feels bored but doesnt have to be that way. When she finds right friends and right support her life here can be the same. She can do some work from home later on like teach Urdu. She said when she is teaching her child she will teach me as well.

United Muslim Women Association Inc. muslim womens association australia..

Contact Us - Australian Muslim Womens Association ek aur unka number hai
They have a timetable of classes

https://www.babycenter.com.au/g25005355/muslim-mummies

Then i contacted this Pakistani paper called sada e watan and emailed them about pakistani groups and especially mothers groups in the area. I am struggling for any Pakistani specific info that can help her in australia

I sent her a few ost of dramas i like. She might want to watch them.
Does it seem like im doing too much or going overboard?

I am going to tell her to join gupshup if she goes online much. She can really benefit from the forum on mother’s issues.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Have you met the woman’s husband? Is the husband aware of your “friendship” with his wife?

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Thanks for the reply Dubaiwali. Love reading your posts.

I was as excited to see RV’s response that i posted twice. Sorry i didnt make it clear. She gave birth in April and her daughter is only few weeks old. Then she had to go to hospital and her husband works long hours. I feel like at this time she needs a lot of support and if she was back home in Pakistan her extended family would give her this support. Thanks for the compliments. I dont think im doing much. Just trying to help someone out with the knowledge i have. But then again others might view it differently.

I get easily emotionally involved especially if the friend was from Pakistan. Over past 8 yrs ive made about dozens of online female friends from Pakistan or Pakistani background in UK and US. But as happens with Indian online friends they disappear or deactivate and then u never hear from them again. Friends uve got to know for yrs even if just online and friends u have made bday videos for, Eid videos for. Then one day they might say my friends dont like when u compliment me and they dont think we should be friends. So i know what being used feels like. Then again ive made some amazing friends online including EasternDresses from GS who is my api that i wish i had those friendships here as well.

After i finished work i spent 3 hrs talking to her and i couldnt help telling her about my online Pakistani friends and how she reminded me of them. She said our friendship will definitely last forever but she needs help with her baby otherwise she will feel too exhausted.

You are right. I dont want him to be suspicious even though im just a female and she sees me as her sister. I dont want him to feel i am taking up all her time. She said she told him about me and he was happy she made a good new friend. Situation may change if i became too over involved. She said since her daughter was born they havent got any rest. I was tempted to say one day i can come over and her daughter can meet shaasavera khala :slight_smile: her indian australian khala. I told her she can call me api as im few yrs older.

So far ive not met her but we have kept in contact. Ive sent her links to muslim women associations in australia where she can do classes including Quran classes when she has time. Ive emailed this Pakistani Australian news paper about local Pakistani mother groups. And who knows through her i might be able to make other new Pakistani friends. I still have few cities left in Pakistan where i dont have female friends but i dont want it to seem im using her to make friends. She told me she was having a headache and i gave her some headache massage/self massage links as her mother in law is over and for her husband as well. To make her feel special i sent her some pakistani drama ost links including this one called saheliyan and she helped me understanding urdu words.

Maybe i have an obsession with making Pakistani friends who know. It could be because i watch many Pakistani dramas. :slight_smile: Even in hospital when i see someone with a Pakistani sounding name after i finish work i talk to them. If they are elderly they tell me stories of their childhood and partition and if they are younger and they are new to the country i ask them how things have been. I am just fascinated with many things Pakistani starting with shan masala in my childhood.

Its the first time ive come across a Pakistani female my age and first time ive given my number when she asked it. I think i got really emotional and said “i dont know if we will ever get to talk again. Its just lucky i came back and introduced myself otherwise probably u would go home tomorrow and we would never know each other and i would never get to have ur friendship.” Then she asked my number. I hope that didnt sound too desperate.

Good advice not to drive her to places. My Pakistani Australian friend warned me about the same. She has asked me for some advice on phone. I think i need to tell her it would be better to see local doctor about problems rather than me give advice from afar when im not really established myself. And maybe i can help her with uber to get to places.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Thanks for ur input Paheli ji. Yes he does know about me and our friendship. I finished work and then we spent 3 hrs chatting by her bedside from 10:30 to 1:30 am. I told her i know its kind of unusual that im introducing myself to u despite everything being fine. Just wanted to see how you’re going. Are you from Pakistan? Where are you from? Etc after i left she told her husband and father. She said her husband was happy she made a new friend and has been encouraging her to get out more. She even told her dad about me and he was happy for her. But she feels a little depressed about things. Ever since her baby was born 4 weeks ago she and her husband have not get rest plus breastfeeding issues.

Next day she whatsapped me a good morning message. Then later in the day she told me she had been waiting a long time for her meds and to be allowed to go home. One of my friends was on that day so i asked her to please see someone i had met yesterday.

Then in the past week we have just chatted on whataapp. If i saw some urdu words in a drama i didnt understand i would message her. I sent her links to muslim women organisation, muslim and pakistani organisations/contacts. I helped organise breastfeeding nurse to visit her house as they had planned to but they had lost contact with her. They said it would be good if she visits the clinic because then her child would be in the system.

She left on a weekend so she couldnt get her hospital summary and one for her family doctor. So i asked her the fax and sent it to him so that when she visits her doctor for follow up or vaccinations with her child he would know the story.

We have not met yet but ive not met the wife either since we met about 11 days ago. Her mother in law is here till the 20th of May so she has good support then.

I explained my situation to some pakistani and indian colleagues. They said it was good to help but u shouldnt give your number. And i shouldnt meet her in person. She can find travel and she can go to local Masjid to find groups. But for some reason i feel i should help her out. She considers me her sister and she has no other family permanently here.

So at this stage we are just whatsapp friends and in mean time ive facebook messaged some Pakistani Australian groups and a Pakistani Australian newspaper. Ive only heard back from the paper and they sent a number she can contact for Pakistani female groups in the area.

I told her i have found some good groups for her where she can make lot more friends. But hope she will not forget me. Just recently 2 friends i had from rawalpindi disappeared from.fb. Telling her this and talking to her gave me sukoon so least i can do is help right.

Maybe if i find good info it can help other women in her situation in the future. It could be information i can give to the hospital.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Thanks for the advice Bobby Uncle and the compliments. You are right its not a good idea to go driving with her or to meet for non professional reasons. She does have my number so she whatsapped me but hasnt for the past day or so. No one knows what would happen in the future with any friendship so best to be selective about whats shared.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Yes, you do get pretty “intense” about all things Pakistani and you have to be careful about that because coming on too strong can scare people off. Pakistanis are just average folks like everyone else in the world. The dramas that you watch depict ordinary characters facing everyday, mundane matters…like everyone else in the world. Fantasizing can lead to placing people on a pedestal. Thousands of people watch Bolly-Holly/wood movies, but it doesn’t have to translate into an intense fascination for all things Indian or Western, etc etc.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

I think you are right about that. I try to be helpful but sometimes i go overboard. I think its maybe fascination of the unknown. Its not really unknown know that i have Pakistani friends and i am on GS.

I have decided if i meet her i will maybe scare her off so i will just help her from a distance if she needs help. If she asks to meet me its different but I wont mention driving her to anywhere or anything like that.

The Pakistani australian newspaper i had emailed got back to me with someone i could contact. I contacted the elderly gentleman and he asked what sort of friends is she looking for. He has a family friend’s daughter who is from the same city as her and lives in same area as her. He will ask her.
So by next week she may have found a good new friend for her.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Human behavior my dear niece is so predictable especially when you get intimate with a culture you will fairly accurately predict future outcomes and behaviors.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Lovely gesture and I’m sure the lady appreciates this but the whole situation sounds very needy on your part. Be careful and consider the implications of such a friendship on your professional standing. Whether she was your patient or not, she was a patient at the hospital you work in. You need to be professional and not over step the mark. I’d take your friends advice and keep a distance.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Haha I am so sorry mate. I thought you were a guy! Scrap all that I said. If you are a female, it is okay to be friends with her. No worries. I just think you are a very compassionate and nice human being. Don’t over do the friendship thing, cos people do take you for granted if you just keep doing and there is no receiving. But yeah, apart from that, it is very good of you and admirable of you.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Lol. I just found out from previous comments that you are a girl.
Friendships see no politics or borders. Don’t overthink when it comes to being happy and making other people happy. It is a form of altruism that should not be conditional no matter what.
Have fun! Enjoy life and take life seriously only when it comes to diagnosing your patients.

Re: Is this friendship illegal

Redvelvet the fascination is there but its more than about pakistani dramas. Its also the way Pakistani girls speak urdu and the way the friends i have make me feel like family in 1 meeting rather than strangers. Thats the good side of my experience. I also find them more approachable then Indian girls.

She feels similar about Indians. Her dad was in Pakistani airforce and has many Indian friends. She had asked him if she can visit India and see the culture there. Her mum didnt want to let her go. She tried to make friends with some of her indian neighbours but they are much older with older kids. It didnt work out. I also tried making more Pakistani female friends online but got unfriended few timws due to over compliments. I told her this might sound strange but i had many pakistani friends online which is why i know a bit about Pakistan. I told her we both have had similar experiences and if she wants to see me as an older sister she can.

You’re also right in that I need to maintain distance and not be so keen. I just want to be there for her to encourage her to use her talents and abilities to achieve her potential. There is lot of support out there but

Re: Is this friendship illegal

[quote=“redvelvet, post:29, topic:348535”]

Yes, you do get pretty “intense” about all things Pakistani and you have to be careful about that because coming on too strong can scare people off. Pakistanis are just average folks like everyone else in the world. The dramas that you watch depict ordinary characters facing everyday, mundane matters…like everyone else in the world. Fantasizing can lead to placing people on a pedestal. Thousands of people watch Bolly-Holly/wood movies, but it doesn’t have to translate into an intense fascination for all things Indian or Western, etc

Continued from.my last comment.

So i was just saying support is out there for new immigrants but it can be hard for them to know about it. I am like an older api for her so i feel i have a responsibility towards her.