Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Taliban has nothing to do with oppression by the west. In that case, Pakistanis should completely disassociate with them.
what is the reason taliban and US fighing each other?
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
The problem for Sufis these days is lack of organization, there are good people there too but unfortunately the bad ones stand out and to find the right ones you have to struggle. They have to compete with distinct organizations, like tableeghi jamaat and jamaat e islami which are organized and better prepared to face today's challenges.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
psyah bro, any authentic reference that suggests that Isalm is incomplete without tassuwaf?
Peace ajazali
Of course ... I would not have left what I was doing if I felt it was reprehensible and alien to Islam.
Now to suggest that I should provide an authentic reference that "Islam is incomplete without tasswwaf" indicates to me that you have still misunderstood tasswwuf ... Because to ask that is the same as asking me for proof that Islam is incomplete without aqeedah or incomplete without fiqh ... Neither of these aqeedah, fiqh nor tasswwuf were practiced as "disciplines" by RasoolAllah (SAW) or by the Sahabah (RA) ... these are innovations and schools have been established upon them ... and no one doubts the importance of having an aqeedah taught in a single text these days due to our separation in time and inability to access the Salaf directly our forefathers saw the need to encode the BELIEF SYSTEM in to a text ... in the same way no one doubts the importance fiqh that it encodes the RITUALS and LIMITS and PENAL SYSTEM of Allah (SWT) ... so that we know WHAT they are ... but neither of these schools tell us HOW to tread the path of Islam ... they may mention and indicate certain practices in hadith ... but such things cannot be encoded in text ... they have to be passed down person to person ... this is why sitting with scholars and their students is necessary ... we learn not only from their study material but from their BEHAVIOUR as well ... and this is what tassuwwuf is all about ...
It is the school of adab/suluk/ihsan/tazkiya - Sidi Ahmad Zarruq Al-Barnusi Al-Shadhili (RA) has given its definition -
He said Tassuwwuf is nothing other than "sincerity in being directed to Allah (SWT)" and truly if you look at Imam An-Nawawis 40 hadith collection in the beginning is hadith Jibreel (AS) ... which mentions the three domains Iman, Islam and Ihsan ... and the explanation of Ihsan is to "Be in a state as though we see Allah (SWT) in prayer although we see Him not, and if we cannot do that then we have to know that He sees us" ... This is precisely that ... prayer is the epitome of being directed to Allah (SWT) and the epitome of sincerity is to believe you are present before Him ... as though we see Him and the resolution of not being able to "see" Him is to bring His seeing us into our remembrance (dizkir) ... RasoolAllah (SAW) is given the title of having tremendous character in the noble Qur'an ... and in hadith it is stated that he said, "I have not been sent except to perfect Noble Character" ... Nobility in character is sincerity in good conduct with ourselves, with each other and with our Lord ...
Tasswwuf is the set of methodologies designed to enhance our sincerity and love and give us "experience" - the "seeing" of Allah (SWT) (Khushu) ... The reason why it is so delectable and the fruits of this practice are so sweet is because we get to "experience" Islam - not just keep it at arms length as a topic of study or something that we use as a stick to beat people with ... In fact we become less concerned with those things and realise that our own hearts are too soiled that we can even spend a moment thinking about the hearts of others ... It teaches us to bring our states to a balance, learn and discern very scientifically how our thoughts are to be given regard ... are they from Satan or from hawa or from Allah or from angels ... learn self-control and discipline and many other things that are associated with "noble character" - we cannot learn many of these things from books alone ... and this is why if you use empirical evidence to test what I am saying then you too will see the fruits of this ...
Every act has two aspects:
The inward and the outward ... the intent and the motion of the act ...
Firing an arrow is easy but to get it on target takes practice ... that is what tassuwwaf can be viewed as ... it is a training ground for making our Islam right ... and to continue it to maintain it and regularly calibrate it ... Jihad with the nufs is from tasswwuf ... and hear this ... this will blow your mind ...
It is regularly established among Sufis (orthodox) that there are people who find the term "tassuwwuf" problematic and disassociate from it and yet when it comes to their sincerity they are better than many who actually claim to be Sufis ... so there can be better Sufis than the Sufis and at the same time they may deny Sufism (mostly out of lack of knowledge) ... That should give you some surety that there is no takfir or elitism in Sufism ... Rather learning how to be most humble and least arrogant is done right here in the schools of the Sufis ... they won't tell you this because it will ruin their attempts to purify their intents ... but I feel it is necessary to share this information as encouragement and giving others reassurance.
Trust me I asked all the questions ... and when I stepped closer I realised how to marvel at the miracle of my own life and the miracles that happen around me ... and all Muslims can share those experiences (all people can share in fact) and realise they are in themselves a microcosm - a universe in themselves and the discipline can give you the keys of accessing that inner universe ... and realise the miracle known as "insan" ...
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
I have seen the arguments where they say that they have authentic references to back their ideas. but question is why gather different references to make new thing like tassuwaf?
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
^ psyah bro very informative post
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Corruption is indeed widespread under the guise of Sufism ... however are we free from corruption when under the guise of other Islamic orders?
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
I have seen the arguments where they say that they have authentic references to back their ideas. but question is why gather different references to make new thing like tassuwaf?
It is not new ... it has been hidden from view ... the same need to develop schools of aqeedah, and the schools of fiqh is the need to develop the schools of tassuwwuf because by learning just aqeedah and fiqh something is lost ... the completion is the three areas ... and that for us is enough solace in the idea that the three have been mentioned as questions by Jibreel (AS) ... Yes, tasswwuf naturally evolved just like the other schools but what came a few hundred years ago was an unnatural thing ... it was a voice that shunned tasswwuf schools and systematically undermined them ... and this voice gained so much more momentum when they found money to fuel and propagate their voice ... mind the pun ... Only in the past hundred or two hundred years has such confusion become commonplace and before that traditional Islam was known by all three of these. There have been detractors throughout history ... but they were not majority at all ...
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
^ psyah bro very informative post
May Allah (SWT) honour you brother ... these are just my summarised notes from the material of the oceans of knowledge from the scholars who I have recently been exposed to ...
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Preaching co-existence: Pakistanis urged to follow Sufi teachings of tolerance – The Express Tribune
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Good article.. but I found this part twisting:
“This is women-friendly Islam,” he said, showing images of women visiting shrines and celebrating rituals with men. Sufi traditions contain important ethical codes while Pakistan can be considered as the heartland of mystical Islam, he explained."
What about permission granted to women in orthodox Islam to perform Hajj?
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
“All Sufis are not saints and all saints are not Sufis.
It is difficult to understand Sufism as there are many factors to this particular ideology,” Dr Boivin said. He said that there were four ‘Silsila’ [order] of Sufism in Sindh, including the Soharwardia, Naqshbandi, Qadri and Chishti. Explaining the historical background of Sufism, Dr Boivin said that the Soharwardia order was the first to be introduced in the province. “It was closely associated with Delhi [Tughlaq dynasty].” Pir Patho, a Sufi saint in Thatta, is one of the examples of Soharwardia silsila in Sindh, he said.
“The Qadri and Naqshbandi orders were introduced in Sindh in the 16th century,” he traced. Giving the example of Sheikh Abdul Qadar Gilani [of the Qadri order] he said that meditation was a common practice among the followers of the order. “Ziker [meditation] is common practice in this order,” he said. “Music is a controversial issue in the Muslim world but followers of the Chishti Sufi order adopted it,” he said. Qawali, in this order, which is also famous in Europe today, somewhat restricted the spread of this particular Sufi order in Sindh, he explained. “This Sufi order was not popular in Sindh because of the music it ordained.”
**
“Sufism cannot solve issues at large but individuals can solve a lot of their problems by following its principles.”**
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
^ Qawaali according to this article is practised in Chishtia order, I wonder what differences are there in these four orders.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
When Sufis came to the subcontinent, people were fed up with caste system but they didnt have any other option. Sufis preached equality, love, tolerance etc which attracted masses towards them. The impact of these sufis can be traced by observing the areas where they yielded influence to the population of Muslims living there nowadays. For centuries Muslims have been living with Non Muslims without any issue, what has happened these days that we cant live together with other Muslims let alone Non Muslims?
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
If we look at history the places where Islam spread without the sword was due to the impeccable conduct of the Muslims - that is suluk … If a non-Sufi has good adab and good suluk - that in my understanding is to be credited to the spiritual aspects of Islam brought by Sayyiduna Muhammad (SAW) … whether that person realises it or not … just as the finesse of the perfection of Tawheed is also to be credited to the dogma aspects of Islam brought by our dear Prophet (SAW) … and the balance brought in Shar’iah in socio-economics is again another to be credited to those aspects of Islam brought by Sayyiduna RasoolAllah (SAW).
Coming back to the “compromise with Indian culture” - topic … Knowledge of application and synthesis is a higher level than mirror reproduction of the same … Look at Bloom’s Taxonomy …
Bloom’s taxonomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
When we are young we are expected to be able to parrot fashion noises, we eventually learn their meanings … when learning to recite we follow sound by sound, but when we get good we make up our own recitations but still follow the rules … Anybody realise that Twinkle Twinkle Little Star can be sung in different styles to suit a given style of music around the world? Likewise … those who know Islam know where they can mould their outlook around the indigenous populous and where they can’t … they bring Islam in to a culture by what is already familiar to them …
Look at Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad … He is a convert to Islam, he is pro-Sufi and he lectures in Arabic and Islamic Studies in the prestigious Cambridge university … He has started a choir - where the singers utilise the common English scales and folkloric patterns to bring the beauty of Islamic poetry and reflective understanding to a wider non-Muslim and Muslim British audience … Knowing where and what to adopt and what not to adopt is key …
Qawali is not a Muslim invention - similar things were prevalent forms of expression before Islam, what can be said is that some Muslims believed that Islam could be broadcast using that medium and thus Qawali was born … Qawali combines message with medium … it touches the mind and the heart and it was effective … however, with all new things there were dangers and with little knowledge and desires getting misdirected towards fame, prestige and money making, Qawali became a trade … and it got diluted and soon the message was lost … where Qawals would sing nonsense as well as the traditional lyrics … and the same thing happened with grave visitors and other manifestations … Visiting the graves for example is a much advised act … It is in core Islam even in the strictest of renditions … it is what people do and how they behave at these sites that is troublesome …
Puritanical (or more accurately minimalistic) Islam has a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater … In order to rectify Islamic practice in the subcontinent is to reconnect with the inner and outer meanings of Islam align with the proper inheritors and then see how it follows through … the solution is not to leave them in their folly and it is not to reduce all of their practices to worthlessness either … The approach should be inclusive and not exclusive -
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
It is not new ... it has been hidden from view ... the same need to develop schools of aqeedah, and the schools of fiqh is the need to develop the schools of tassuwwuf because by learning just aqeedah and fiqh something is lost ... the completion is the three areas ... and that for us is enough solace in the idea that the three have been mentioned as questions by Jibreel (AS) ... Yes, tasswwuf naturally evolved just like the other schools but what came a few hundred years ago was an unnatural thing ... it was a voice that shunned tasswwuf schools and systematically undermined them ... and this voice gained so much more momentum when they found money to fuel and propagate their voice ... mind the pun ... Only in the past hundred or two hundred years has such confusion become commonplace and before that traditional Islam was known by all three of these. There have been detractors throughout history ... but they were not majority at all ...
ok here is what i get. tassuwaf is just like another school of aqeedah, or just like school aqeedah was introduced, so the tassuwaf is.
tassuwaf was hidden from the view and it was openly practised untill before 1 or2 hundred years, yet you could not find any source that suggets that it was there since the appearance of Islam.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
^ Qawaali according to this article is practised in Chishtia order, I wonder what differences are there in these four orders.
sufis of Qadri cult believe that sharia is what you murshid ask to do. comparatively modern qadri sufis condemn sharia. a sufi Hafiz muhammad ijaz said that you should follow your peer even if he ask you to drink vine while offering prayer. all the cults are found in punjab except suharwardi cult , i guess. chisti and naqshbandi cult are followed by some groups from deobandi and brelvi school of thought . but apprently i didnt find any difference among three cult being followed in punjab. deobandi sufis tends to avoid music though.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Interesting material on defining what constitute Tasawwuf and what are the qualities of a proper Shaykh.
What is Tasawwuf? - Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi
- He possesses necessary religious knowledge.
- His beliefs, habits, and practices are in accordance with the Shariah.
- He does not harbor greed for the worldly wealth.
- He has himself spent time learning from a proper Shaykh.
- The scholars and good mashaikh of his time hold good opinion about him.
- His admirers are mostly from among the people who have good understanding of religion.
- Most of his followers follow the Shariah and are not the seekers after this world.
- He sincerely tries to educate and morally train his followers. If he sees anything wrong in them, he corrects it.
- In his company one can feel a decrease in the love of this world and an increase in the love for Allah (subhanahu wa ta ala).
- He himself regularly performs dhikr and spiritual exercises.
Tough tasks and qualities to be found.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
^ arent such things practised by followers of other school of thought including salfis? they do have ulema that performs these duties then why name it like tassuwaf and try to make another "distinction" and blame salfis in every otjer thread.
if this is all islam then we should keep it simple dont make more dintinctions.
do you think think that we need anything else after getting the seerat, uswa e hasna, akhuwat, tahammal, burdbari, bhai-chara practised and preached by the holy prophet(s.a.w).
in the presence of teachings by the holy prophet(s.a.w) i mentioned the need for tassuwaf is either a way to invention or to escape.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
^ arent such things practised by followers of other school of thought including salfis? they do have ulema that performs these duties then why name it like tassuwaf and try to make another "distinction" and blame salfis in every otjer thread. if this is all islam then we should keep it simple dont make more dintinctions. do you think think that we need anything else after getting the seerat, uswa e hasna, akhuwat, tahammal, burdbari, bhai-chara practised and preached by the holy prophet(s.a.w). in the presence of teachings by the holy prophet(s.a.w) i mentioned the need for tassuwaf is either a way to invention or to escape.
I think some aspects of deen are more hilighted in orthodox Islam... Namaz, Roza, Zakat, Haj, etc (broadly categorised as Huqooq ullah) and then there are elements you mentioned above which related to public interaction (Huqooq ul Ibad). Deen got two aspects Jamal o Jalal, as God is Rehman as well as Jabbar. Sufi Islam emphasise Jamal (portrayal of Allah as Rehman) and Orthodox Islam emphasizes on Jalal (portrayal of Allah as Jabbar).
Its probably not escape but emphasis on different aspects, while same qualities exist in the other type of ideology as well, but not hilighted as such.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
sufis of Qadri cult believe that sharia is what you murshid ask to do. comparatively modern qadri sufis condemn sharia. a sufi Hafiz muhammad ijaz said that you should follow your peer even if he ask you to drink vine while offering prayer. all the cults are found in punjab except suharwardi cult , i guess. chisti and naqshbandi cult are followed by some groups from deobandi and brelvi school of thought . but apprently i didnt find any difference among three cult being followed in punjab. deobandi sufis tends to avoid music though.
I dont know, havent come across a sufi condemning shariah. By the way how exactly is drinking wine different on orders from their peers different as compared to people committing terrorism on orders from their ameers? If you see around you these cults are every where in pakistan, sufis or otherwise.