Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Talking of Iqbal, its very confusing as many people claim that he was himself a Sufi and I'm coming across many of his poems where he is against Khanqah culture and peeri mureedi.. Iqbal is quite inspired from Rumi and Data Gunj Bux as well.
All things of Sufis werent bad, after all Islam in the subcontinent is due to them. Cant he still be the followers of Sufism while pointing out some flaws?
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Talking of Iqbal, its very confusing as many people claim that he was himself a Sufi and I'm coming across many of his poems where he is against Khanqah culture and peeri mureedi.. Iqbal is quite inspired from Rumi and Data Gunj Bux as well.
yes, that is the topic i was talking about. let me create the thread for that.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
All things of Sufis werent bad, after all Islam in the subcontinent is due to them. Cant he still be the followers of Sufism while pointing out some flaws?
Now that is the point what I also wanted to make. But it seems that people don't want to listen anything against the ideology they follow. With the passage of time, Sufism like other ideologies faced a downfall and such downfall was apparent even during Iqbal's period, which he highlighted in his poetry, though he was not totally against Sufism.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
The way things are going, the intolerant face of Islam that is being shown these days, I think some people will become atheists and others will start returning to sufism. This is why I believe the latter should also do their homework and adjust with today's realities. Some reforms are needed in sufism within Indo-Pak.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
The way things are going, the intolerant face of Islam that is being shown these days, I think some people will become atheists and others will start returning to sufism. This is why I believe the latter should also do their homework and adjust with today's realities.
Tolerance and intolerance are not absolute terms. I'm afraid if Islam was revealed in circumstances like todays, our liberals would have called the Prophet intolerant.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Now this explains the point well.
When someone have to convey a message, it is better conveyed when you live in between people and not abstaining worldly things (that were not forbidden by Allah). Temporary seclusion makes sense, but the kind of seclusion Hindu jogi and christian monasticism followed got no place in Islam.
INTERESTING thing is you will find no difference of attitude between one who believes in tassuwaf and the one who dont, on dealing with difference of opinion. so that way tassuwaf for me so far is just a label nothing different practically.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
INTERESTING thing is you will find no difference of attitude between one who believes in tassuwaf and the one who dont, on dealing with difference of opinion. so that way tassuwaf for me so far is just a label nothing different practically.
another connected question is why orthodox version of Islam has always been portrayed and conceived as oppressing and intolerant. Hazrat Omar was not a Sufi (atleast I never read that any sufi order trace back to him), but the level of tolerance he shown at the time of conquest of Palestine is exemplary.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Tolerance and intolerance are not absolute terms. I'm afraid if Islam was revealed in circumstances like todays, our liberals would have called the Prophet intolerant.
Islam was revealed in different circumstances, and we have the Conquest of Makkah in front of us.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
These days you cannot dictate what ever you want by force, this can be in slave-master relationship (like peeri mureedi) or killing others on difference of opinions (political and religious both). In all the religious movements of Pakistan, I commend Tableeghi Jamaat for the work they are doing for Islam, but their silence in condemning the violence committed by some people of the same school of thought confounds me.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Islam was revealed in different circumstances, and we have the Conquest of Makkah in front of us.
check google you will find stuff calling Prophet intolerant for the way he dealt with Jews who were involved in conspiracies against Muslims. Thats a different topic in itself. The point is each ideology consider other opposite ideology unfit. There is stuff popular among people who follow so called tasawwuf, which is full of hatred against orthodox Islam and sharia. I've once shared in these forums how so called sufis make mockery of basic principles (Haj, Namaz, etc) of Islam.
I do agree with psyah's point of view (he keeps on repeating in such discussion) that there should be no tareeqa without sharaia, but unfortunately in practice (at least what I've seen) that is not the case. A mosque near a dargah is normally occupied by fewer namazi than the crow available on dargah at namaz timings.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
check google you will find stuff calling Prophet intolerant for the way he dealt with Jews who were involved in conspiracies against Muslims. Thats a different topic in itself. The point is each ideology consider other opposite ideology unfit. There is stuff popular among people who follow so called tasawwuf, which is full of hatred against orthodox Islam and sharia. I've once shared in these forums how so called sufis make mockery of basic principles (Haj, Namaz, etc) of Islam.
I do agree with psyah's point of view (he keeps on repeating in such discussion) that there should be no tareeqa without sharaia, but unfortunately in practice (at least what I've seen) that is not the case. A mosque near a dargah is normally occupied by fewer namazi than the crow available on dargah at namaz timings.
Maybe you are talking of Bulleh Shah? Otherwise I cant think (barring some uneducated people) of anyone who'd make fun of Islamic rituals and then consider himself a Muslim.
I have never come across any Sufi, who believes that he does not need to obey Islams teachings. Having said that one can educate those people who might believe that they do not need to worship as their peer would get their sins forgiven on judgement day, this is no different to some other people who consider that they can kill innocent people on the orders of their ameer (again to reach jannah). In fact the latter is worse.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Add concepts like wahdat ul wajood and hama ost
I know the literal meanings of wahdat ul wajood, but what is it exactly and hama ost?
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
another connected question is why orthodox version of Islam has always been portrayed and conceived as oppressing and intolerant.** Hazrat Omar was not a Sufi (atleast I never read that any sufi order trace back to him), but the level of tolerance he shown at the time of conquest of Palestine is exemplary**.
exactly, if you follow Islam in its true sense then you will not be needing the excuses like sufism. for example comprehension a verse, Nobel Quran says you can take revenge but if you forgive, that is better for you and Allah(s.w.t) will give you reward accordingly.
and most of the Islamic movements against West can be traced back to opression by West. but cuz of today's media we cant even imagine blame the West for its wrong doings, although some muslim too are responsible for that.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Taliban has nothing to do with oppression by the west. In that case, Pakistanis should completely disassociate with them.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
I’m not talking of Bulleh Shah (though his poetry is popular in such circles), but poetry is subject to interpretation and one can get good lesson from the poetry of Bulleh Shah which contain concepts like attachment with land, denial of ego, etc
The problem lies with the custodians of shrines, who are exploiting general public on the name of aqeedat. Islam gave equal status to slaves and these people are promoting slavery in the name of religion.
What kind of Islam?
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
I know the literal meanings of wahdat ul wajood, but what is it exactly and hama ost?
Its a difficult subject which is subject to different interpretations. Huma Ost mean 'Everything is He or He is everything' and this lead to 'Ana l Haq'.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
^ that is exploitation, if you are talking about these people, at the end of the day they are feudals too.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Taliban has nothing to do with oppression by the west. In that case, Pakistanis should completely disassociate with them.
Are Taliban representative of Islam? Are they are the only ones who are the other face of Islam besides Sufism?
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
^ that is exploitation, if you are talking about these people, at the end of the day they are feudals too.
Peer Pagara, Makhdooms of Hala, Gaddi Nasheen of Multan all claims to follow some sufi order. In Sindh, sufi literature is full of resistance against feudal oppression. Shah Inayat of Jhok Sharif is said to the first person in the region who run a movement for farmer's rights. But now, we don't see any of such movement from sufi circles.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Peer Pagara, Makhdooms of Hala, Gaddi Nasheen of Multan all claims to follow some sufi order. In Sindh, sufi literature is full of resistance against feudal oppression. Shah Inayat of Jhok Sharif is said to the first person in the region who run a movement for farmer's rights. But now, we don't see any of such movement from sufi circles.
All these are big gaddi nasheens, there are people out there who are better.