is quran only directed at males???!!!!!!!!!!!

Society Religion & Philosophy
61

[quote]
Originally posted by faceup:
FF,
Everything I say is Disagreeable to you; so, let's agree to disagree.
[/quote]

I have nothing against you as a person. Why should I then disagrre with everything you say? The reason is that what you are saying is unsupportable and is against Islam. If anybody does that, I shall stand up for all it is worth.

**
[quote]
To say Islam is against "sects" is like saying Islam stands for "Equality". They are both hypocritical statements.**
[/quote]

What is hypocritical about the statement I have made? Are you not aware of the statements in the Qur'an and Sunnah in this respect?

**
[quote]
I strongly encourage that you re-search how the 4 sunni sects were established and what they are based upon?**
[/quote]

LOL. I pointed out your absolute ignorance and you try to encourage me to research and then make the blunder of calling the schools sects. Further showing your ignorance. (sic)

**
[quote]
It is not by chance that they(sunni sects) are called followers of the Sunnah or Ahl as sunnah and, Imam Bukahri's life long calling was study of the sunnah and its science and, eventual compilation of the hadiths/sunnah. **
[/quote]

I thought the Imams used Imam Bukhari to compile and then came up with the shariahs (sic). Now you switch and put Imam Bukhari in the driving seat. You are trying to be the eel now are you?

Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

62

Originally posted by FactFinder:
** I have nothing against you as a person. Why should I then disagrre with everything you say? The reason is that what you are saying is unsupportable and is against Islam. If anybody does that, I shall stand up for all it is worth.**

FF,
Let me re-emphasize this yet again!
Islam is not you and,
You are not Islam.

Do you understand this?
You follow a radical version of Islam and your defense is for this Radical Islam.

** Are you not aware of the statements in the Qur'an and Sunnah in this respect (about sects)? **

FF,
Are you not aware of the ayath that commands - we respect & cherish Allah's Diversity. Pls refer to the Corner Room Forum and the thread called: Is Allah's Diversity an innovation?

** I pointed out your absolute ignorance and you try to encourage me to research and then make the blunder of calling the schools sects. Further showing your ignorance. (sic) **

FF,
So much for your hollow comment that you do not have anything personal against me. I guess calling names ia allowed.

I strongly URGE that you do study what you follow and more important contemplate or Reflect.

The sunnis are four separate fiqhs and their sharia'h differs on many matters and this makes them four separate sects. If you were informed about sunni - Islam then you wouldn't have made the above comment. ATTN: Hasnain - This should answer your question as well.

*I thought the Imams used Imam Bukhari to compile and then came up with the shariahs (sic). Now you switch and put Imam Bukhari in the driving seat. You are trying to be the eel now are you? *

FF,
more personal attacks - I see and may I remind you, yet again, of you hollow statement about "not having anything personal against me."

You see, in your obsession to defend anything tthat is said against your creed, you are prepared to use any & all means and this is pathetic.

My stand on hadiths & sunni Islam is same from my day1 on this discussion Board.
Imam Bukhari main conribution to Islam is the science of hadiths. He was appointed by the then Caliph to study & compile the hadiths which he did and these hadiths form the basis of all sunni jurisprudence.

There are no sharia'h laws that contravenes the hadiths of these scholars like bukhari, muslim, etc. because these hadiths are the meanings of the quran.
The Sunni Madzab is based not on the quran but upon these hadiths.

Here's something to contemplate:
* If Orthodox Islam is based upon hadiths and these hadiths are "alleged" to be fabricated then the whole Orthodox Sunni Islam is fabricated or innovated.*

I wish you good luck in your endeavours.

63

Hey FaceUp,

You didn't answer my question!

You Originally posted:

[quote]
I strongly encourage that you re-search how the 4 sunni sects were established and what they are based upon?
[/quote]

So I asked you:

[quote]
Where is your proof that there are 4 suni sects?
[/quote]

And you then replied:

[quote]
The sunnis are four separate fiqhs and their sharia'h differs on many matters and this makes them four separate sects. If you were informed about sunni - Islam then you wouldn't have made the above comment. ATTN: Hasnain - This should answer your question as well.
[/quote]

But i'm sure you'll agree when i object, that this is not proof, it's just your personal explanation and nothing more. So please allow me to kindly ask you once again:

[quote]
Where is your proof that there are 4 suni sects?
[/quote]

[quote]
You see, in your obsession to defend anything tthat is said against your creed, you are prepared to use any & all means and this is pathetic.
[/quote]

You sound like an extremist FaceUp, but it's difficult to finger exactly what side of the scale you occupy.

It is important to remain balanced in anything that we do and not turn emotional because someone happens to disagree. It is also important to remain clear minded and focussed and accept defeat when faced with it. I'm sure you very well know that there are not 4 sects amongst the Sunis. However, i'm willing to accept otherwise if you can provide evidence to support your argument.

64

.

65

Ms. Splendor, I think you are nuts. You posted a pic of a “guy” you like in makeup and dressed like a woman in image gallery. That is the only reason you are against Islam’s view of Homosexuals because you like that homo guy.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/tongue.gif

You think only Islam is against Homosexuality? Think again! The bible states:

** “If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they should surely be put to death…”. Leviticus 20:13 **

**For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." (Romans 1:26-27). **

You say you complain about Islam’s view. Why not say you complain against God’s view? In the end, you only have to answer to God when you defy his rule of law. People that is all!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/redface.gif

[This message has been edited by Astronut (edited January 03, 2002).]

66

Just an example that how much time we had already wasted on this useless and un-neccessary discussion, I can see some 64 replies posted against this useless issue(which is perhaps one of the highest number among all the other topics).

How many people get involved into this discussion and ask anyone, if he/she been benefited from this discussion by any nano-fractional means ????????

I feel sorry for all of us,we are not supposed to waste our very very limited time like that.Allah will ask us " What knowledge we tried to acquire" and we will not have any justification for discussing and arguing on these matters, I am more than 100% sure.

What if we die just now(forgive me those who are afriad of death)? then who feels that acquiring such type of knowledge can save us from Hell Fire.

I mean it not only for this particular question but for all the issues and questions of such type.

God knows Better.

67

.

68

[quote]
Originally posted by faceup:
Originally posted by FactFinder:
** FF, Let me re-emphasize this yet again!
Islam is not you and, You are not Islam.
Do you understand this?
You follow a radical version of Islam and your defense is for this Radical Islam.
[/quote]

I am not Islam and there is no radical Islam. People who are radical are the people who have had no secular/worldly education. Thus, remove this unneccessary label from me.

**

[quote]
FF, Are you not aware of the ayath that commands - we respect & cherish Allah's Diversity. Pls refer to the Corner Room Forum and the thread called: Is Allah's Diversity an innovation?**
[/quote]

Diversity of Allah and creation of sects are two different things. One more for your ignorance.

**
[quote]
FF, So much for your hollow comment that you do not have anything personal against me. I guess calling names ia allowed.**
[/quote]

If a person is ignorant and arrogantly insists on continuing to remain ignorant, he has to be given a jolt. Thus, it is for your benefit and is a remedy for your disease.

**

[quote]
I strongly URGE that you do study what you follow and more important contemplate or Reflect.

The sunnis are four separate fiqhs and their sharia'h differs on many matters and this makes them four separate sects. If you were informed about sunni - Islam then you wouldn't have made the above comment.**
[/quote]

I know, Alhumdo Lillah, and you are the one who has displayed total ignorance and tried to impose it on people in this forum.

Even here you have erred in calling something as shariah which it is not.

**

[quote]
FF, more personal attacks - I see and may I remind you, yet again, of you hollow statement about "not having anything personal against me."**
[/quote]

These were called for as you have been arrogant about your ignoarance. In your earlier post you said

[quote]
What set of procedures was followed by the FOUR Sunni Imams/scholars when they proceeded to establish the FOUR Sunni sects?

The Four Imams knew they were setting up Taqleeds which means EMULATE or COPY but they needed their taqleeds to corroborate to the "ways of the prophet or his sunnah."

So, they appointed Imam Bukhari who goes about compiling hadiths that met the criteria of the taqleed or sects that were being put into place.
[/quote]
This was totally incorrect so I posted

[quote]
I have never seen more misdirected and uninformed writing in my life. Alhumdo Lillah. Before writing you must check the correctness of what you are writing. As an example, Imam Al-Shaf'ie died when Imam Bukhar was only 10 years old. I am sure if I dig further into the periods and locations I will prove the folly of your statements even further.
[/quote]
And, there are more such statements by you which show your shallowness and then insistence that what you are saying is to be accepted.

**

[quote]
My stand on hadiths & sunni Islam is same from my day1 on this discussion Board.
Imam Bukhari main conribution to Islam is the science of hadiths. He was appointed by the then Caliph to study & compile the hadiths which he did and these hadiths form the basis of all sunni jurisprudence.**
[/quote]

Here again there is an example of your shifting stance. In the previous quote you said the four Imams appointed him and when confronted with the incorrectness, now you are saying that he was appointed by the Caliphs. Which one do you wish to project as your final version.

**

[quote]
There are no sharia'h laws that contravenes the hadiths of these scholars like bukhari, muslim, etc. because these hadiths are the meanings of the quran.
The Sunni Madzab is based not on the quran but upon these hadiths.**
[/quote]

What are you trying to say here. Your first statement contradicts the second. The disease seems to be getting worse.
**

[quote]
Here's something to contemplate:
* If Orthodox Islam is based upon hadiths and these hadiths are "alleged" to be fabricated then the whole Orthodox Sunni Islam is fabricated or innovated.*
**
[/quote]

OK. Seems like another misguided soul.

Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

[This message has been edited by FactFinder (edited January 04, 2002).]

69

[quote]
Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
** Astro, if you ever read the other stuff I write, you'll see that I am as much against the Bible and it's views on women as I am, well, DISTRESSED by Islam's views on homosexuality and females.

I'm also against Islam's view of homosexuality because it affects me personally.**
[/quote]

Only God can save you then. The people to whom Loot (alaihe salam) was sent were destoryed by Allah. If you are from that kind of people, you have a lot of repenting to do for salvation.

Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

70

[quote]
Originally posted by sheikhaa:
**Just an example that how much time we had already wasted on this useless and un-neccessary discussion, I can see some 64 replies posted against this useless issue(which is perhaps one of the highest number among all the other topics).

How many people get involved into this discussion and ask anyone, if he/she been benefited from this discussion by any nano-fractional means ????????

I feel sorry for all of us,we are not supposed to waste our very very limited time like that.Allah will ask us " What knowledge we tried to acquire" and we will not have any justification for discussing and arguing on these matters, I am more than 100% sure.

What if we die just now(forgive me those who are afriad of death)? then who feels that acquiring such type of knowledge can save us from Hell Fire.

I mean it not only for this particular question but for all the issues and questions of such type.

God knows Better.**
[/quote]

Sister I totally agree that this is an issue on which a lot of time has been wasted. But, if people come to the forum and say that Islam is an unfair religion or say derogatory things about the religion, I believe it is our obligation to put things in the right perspective.

The sister is proposing to change the interpretation of shari'ah so that homosexuals, adulterors, murderers, apostates, etc. can do what they want without being punished. Would you sit back and let her spread this nonsense. Tomorrow, there will be two more people on this site saying that she was not stopped, so it should be acceptable. Where is the community then to forbid evil and encourage good?

Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

71

[quote]
Originally posted by FactFinder:

Sister I totally agree that this is an issue on which a lot of time has been wasted. But, if people come to the forum and say that Islam is an unfair religion or say derogatory things about the religion, I believe it is our obligation to put things in the right perspective.

The sister is proposing to change the interpretation of shari'ah so that homosexuals, adulterors, murderers, apostates, etc. can do what they want without being punished. Would you sit back and let her spread this nonsense. Tomorrow, there will be two more people on this site saying that she was not stopped, so it should be acceptable. Where is the community then to forbid evil and encourage good?

**
[/quote]

In the first place, I once again strongly request please not to let me feel change of my gender at this age......I am a " HE " not a " SHE".

Secondly, the answer to your questions is simply in the following Verse of Quraan(which I quoted earlier as well);

" Yaa Ayyuhal Lazeena Aamano ! Qu Anfusikaum wa Ahlieekum Naara"

O you who believe! save first your ownself from the Hell Fire and then attempt to save your family"

I am afraid nobdoy can stop such type of persons from raising and asking such issues and matters, even if they know that Allah and his Prophet(MPUH)has strictly ordered them not to get indulged and waste time with such useless and irrelevant matters.

Dear, there has always been a group of people(numbers could be increased now) who never tried to reflect there sincere thurst of finding the truth and knowledge, you must be remembring the behavior of Abu Jahal and Abu Lahab, and other hypocrites, who even after seeing the Split of Moon into two pieces, appearance of a 10 month pregnant She Camel from a Mountain, splitting of the River into two parts, Birth of Jesus without a father and a lot more, didn't become a Muslim or even dared to admit the Truthfulness of Islam, so how can you or we stop such people now ??????

The only and only solution and answer to such type of people is, in Quraan's words;

" Wa Khatabal Jahiloona Qalu Salama"

The interpretation/Meaning:
And whenever ignorants talk rubbish to them(the believers) , they just simply say Salam to them.

Quraan do not order or advise us to waste our valuable time(which is being given for our own saftey first) on these people, we can simply and sincerely pray for them so that Allah will reduce the darkness of their hearts.

God knows better.

(Since yesterday, about 5 more replies were added to this discussion)Look how Shaitaan mislead and distract us from our actual Path.

Lahaula Wala Quaata Illah Billah.

72

[quote]
Originally posted by sheikhaa:
** In the first place, I once again strongly request please not to let me feel change of my gender at this age......I am a " HE " not a " SHE".**
[/quote]

I sincerely apologise for mistaking your gender. The name you have chosen made me presume that you were a female sheikh.

**
[quote]
Secondly, the answer to your questions is simply in the following Verse of Quraan(which I quoted earlier as well);

" Yaa Ayyuhal Lazeena Aamano ! Qu Anfusikaum wa Ahlieekum Naara"

O you who believe! save first your ownself from the Hell Fire and then attempt to save your family"**
[/quote]

It is probably out of context in the sense that if I know something to be incorrect and that statment is madde publicly, I do not have to be perfect before I stand up against it and be counted. This is very similar to the Christian treatment of adultry. Only a person who has not committed a sin can caste a stone. See what the result is.

Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

73

[quote]
Originally posted by FactFinder:

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by FaceUP:
My stand on hadiths & sunni Islam is same from my day1 on this discussion Board.
Imam Bukhari main conribution to Islam is the science of hadiths. He was appointed by the then Caliph to study & compile the hadiths which he did and these hadiths form the basis of all sunni jurisprudence.
[/quote]

Here again there is an example of your shifting stance. In the previous quote you said the four Imams appointed him and when confronted with the incorrectness, now you are saying that he was appointed by the Caliphs. Which one do you wish to project as your final version.
[/QUOTE]

Yes brother FactFinder, he seems a little usure of himself. His inconistency is a sign of confusion.

FaceUp,

Why are you stubborn in arguing a point, without an understanding of that point. You seem extremely unbalanced and unstable in your altercation. Please don't be a nuisance and waste time in modifying everything you decide to hurl at us, when you are proven wrong, through emotional discomfort.

74

The Subject of this thread is:
Is Quran only directed at males?

We have covered a lot of ground in this thread but to understand Allah pls refer to:
Allah Has a face and He is Limitless! http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/004221.html

75

[quote]
Originally posted by FactFinder:

[/quote]

It is probably out of context in the sense that if I know something to be incorrect and that statment is madde publicly, I do not have to be perfect before I stand up against it and be counted. This is very similar to the Christian treatment of adultry. Only a person who has not committed a sin can caste a stone. See what the result is.

**
[/QUOTE]

You are right to the extent that we are obligated to reflect atleast the 2nd or the least level of Eimaan , which is either to Stop such non-sense by our tongue or in worst case feel bad in our hearts.

We have already discharged our obligation by these two levels, and we cannot go for the first level of Eimaan( Jihad Bis Saif).

May be I was taken into a wrong way.... that I don't want or don't think its right to stop such non-sense.... let me declare my wish to fight with such type of people the way Hazrat Umar(RA) used to do, but dear we must not forget that same Hazrat Umar(RA) abolished the Hand Cutting punsihment, when there was severe shortage of food.... means we need to create an environment which can motivate and encourage people to learn the Deen,instead of just trying to stop all that at once, and I didn't mean that we need to be perfect before we stop such things, but rather we need to justify that its better to light a Candle by our ownselves instead of cursing the Darkness.

The best way to make the whole environment clean and pollusion free, is to start from our ownselves, our family, our neighborhood and so on .... by cleaning our house, our doors, planting some trees and spraying the anti-pollusion chemicals, this way a chain of good environment will start developing and flourishing very quickly.

We need to give this a try now.....otherwise the picture of this world will become more worse if we start with others and try to correct others first. A small candle can diminish a lot of darkness, so we need to be atleast such small candle first.

God knows better.

76

[quote]
Originally posted by sheikhaa:
** We have already discharged our obligation by these two levels, and we cannot go for the first level of Eimaan( Jihad Bis Saif).**
[/quote]

Today it is jihadbil communication, which includes media, internet, etc. That is what I am trying to do.

**
[quote]
The best way to make the whole environment clean and pollusion free, is to start from our ownselves, our family, our neighborhood and so on .... by cleaning our house, our doors, planting some trees and spraying the anti-pollusion chemicals, this way a chain of good environment will start developing and flourishing very quickly.**
[/quote]

With internet, the neighborhood has been redefined.

Alhumdo Lillah, I am doing some work on my own. The work is mostly on the internet as that is something that I can do best. Each of us has to do what he feels more adept at.

Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

77

[quote]
Originally posted by FactFinder:
Today it is jihadbil communication, which includes media, internet, etc. That is what I am trying to do.

Dear fellow, the most lethal weapon to fight with Evils of all types is Character, Islam never spread with mere dicussions, debates and arguments.

One of the most important factor, which made our Prophet(MPUH) successful in spreading Islam far & wide was his strong character, which is equally respected by friends and enemies.If we can start trying to make our personal character strong by following Quraan & Sunnah, then there will left a very little need to spend so much time on debates an discussions.People around us will inshaallah start listening and following our teachings, only if we can show that we have an improved level of Character.

I am unaware of any single event(based on my very limited knowledge) that Prophet(MPUH) or any of his companion ever got involved in any debate or continuous discussion, Prophet(MPUH) used to send his messengers to different nations and tribes to simply deliver the message of Islam in very simply words no arguments,no debate no artifical wordings etc.

I don't believe anybody can listen to us if there is no difference between their and our appearance, attitude,life style and dealings with people.

I feel much better if I can convince atleast few of my family members and friends to start praying Namaz( and before that I must be a regular Namazi by myself inculding Fajir specially) while knowing that Namaz is the only difference between a Muslim and a Non-believer rather than trying to get involved in convincing some ignorant people to believe in the reason " Why Quraan is Male directed " or " Why Homo-Sextuality is Haraam " etc. etc.....
**

With internet, the neighborhood has been redefined.

Alhumdo Lillah, I am doing some work on my own. The work is mostly on the internet as that is something that I can do best. Each of us has to do what he feels more adept at.

Yes, if we are observing five time regular prayers(including Fajir with Jamaat, if we live in any Islamic country), following Quraan and Sunnah(based on whatever we know)
and trying our best to convince our family, friends and neighbors to follow a good Path, then yes you are really doing a great job, but if not then.......I am sorry dear we need to think twice as Quraan says;

" Lima Taqooluna Maala Tafaloon "

Meaning/Interpretation; Why do you say such thing which You yourself don't follow ?

Another imporant fact which we mostly ignore, is that Sahitaan urge us to keep getting involved in un-neccessary discussions specially about what other think or feel, as by doing so, we get a very little or rather no time to do our own accountability.

One of my friend asked me once, why we don't stop talking and discussing about others, their behaviors, their beliefs, their thoughts, their life style etc. etc...?????
and I simply said because its quite easy to dicuss others instead of getting depressed after evaluating and accounting our personal lives, that how many people we Backbited as of now, how much we lie, how much we care about not seeing any Na- Meharram, not listening to Music, not following Non-Muslims life style, not causing any harm to anybody,offering Regular five times prayers in congregation etc. etc.....

If the answer of above all or most of all is in " Yes " then yes we are all set for representing a practicing Muslim figure and then inviting others to what we are following. Good charater is just like the fragrance of a flower which makes the surrounding very pleasant, with no extra-effort and within a very little time.

I am not aware of any single personality who served Islam in a good way while he/she himself/herslef was not a " Practicing Muslim "

God knows better**

78

[quote]
Originally posted by sheikhaa:
**
[QUOTE]
Dear fellow, the most lethal weapon to fight with Evils of all types is Character, Islam never spread with mere dicussions, debates and arguments.**
[/quote]

Character is first, no doubt. Discussion follows for both da'wa and islaah. Do you not agree that Shaikh Ahmad Deedat (may Allah give him health) has done a lot to make many westerners realise the fallacies of their beliefs?

**
[quote]
One of the most important factor, which made our Prophet(MPUH) successful in spreading Islam far & wide was his strong character, which is equally respected by friends and enemies.If we can start trying to make our personal character strong by following Quraan & Sunnah, then there will left a very little need to spend so much time on debates an discussions.People around us will inshaallah start listening and following our teachings, only if we can show that we have an improved level of Character.**
[/quote]

No dispute about that. Alhumdo Lillah, there are always people who are adamant and want to extend their perverted thinking on others. These people have to be handled differently. Some you can just ignore. But if they are saying something publicly, they must be exposed.

Your subsequent paras convey the same message that we have to be perfect before we do any islaah work on others. On this I beg to differ. This may have been applicable without internet. Now globalisation and internet have changed evrything.

Since 11 September I have seen many people coming and asking questions which several people have responded to and, Alhumdo Lillah, there have been reversions. If I were to follow your thinking, I would not be able to contribute as I have some shortcomings from being perfect.

Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

79

[quote]
Originally posted by FactFinder:
No dispute about that. Alhumdo Lillah, there are always people who are adamant and want to extend their perverted thinking on others. These people have to be handled differently. Some you can just ignore. But if they are saying something publicly, they must be exposed.
[/quote]

The only perverted thinking today is held & spread by likes of you. And, the proof is in DELETION of my threads:
**Allah has a face and He is limitless and, Battling Islamic Demagogues **that exposes this perversion. Cannot debate so you all resort to abuse, if that doesn't work then moderators comes in and DELETES the thread.

sheikhaa talks about Character:

You all have character is like saying the saudis, taleban, the sipah e sabahs have character, unless the character that is being referred to is again based on their pervered views/belief on the matter of character.

Wake up!

80

[quote]
Originally posted by faceup:
** The only perverted thinking today is held & spread by likes of you. And, the proof is in DELETION of my threads:**
[/quote]

What goes down the gutter is garbage. What gets deleted is what is classified as pervert thinking.
**
[quote]
Cannot debate so you all resort to abuse, if that doesn't work then moderators comes in and DELETES the thread.**
[/quote]

You can debate with a person who understands reason. If he keeps on-and-on with the same tune which is not even good to the ears, what do you do? You either close your ears or shut the musician.

**
[quote]
sheikhaa talks about Character:**
[/quote]

Not my ball.

**
[quote]
You all have character is like saying the saudis, taleban, the sipah e sabahs have character, unless the character that is being referred to is again based on their pervered views/belief on the matter of character.**
[/quote]

Name-calling again! Tell me, what have these people done to you or to the sectyou wish not to disclose? I have a feeling I know the thinking you follow. I met another gentleman on other forum. Even after he was pinned he kept denying any affiliation.

Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.