Is Nawaz and Zardari already started looting the country?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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During last two months (after new government took over), mostly during last one month:

KSE capitalisation lost around Rs 800 billion rupees (Since April 21, 2008 and still going on … things have not turned yet. This loss is more than March-April 2005 crash)

Pakistan debt has increased around 500 billion rupees

Pakistan reserves decreased around 4 billion dollars

Rupee devalued around 15 percent from below Rs 61 to a dollar to around Rs 70 to a dollar.

Question is: During last KSE crash, media started shouting that there is scandal and Shaukat Aziz must be looting KSE. At that time, neither rupee devalued, neither country’s dollar reserve decreased, neither Pakistan debt increased. Why it is that when everything is happening worse than last time, still media is mute on the subject and not blaming present government that they have started looting the country? Why they are still blaming old government when nothing bad happened during old government rule? If old government was so bad than we would have seen such happening during their time (from 1999 to early 2008).

Just think: In past, crash of KSE was portrayed by media as intentional and someone stealing money from KSE. So, who stole that much from Karachi Stock Exchange during last one month (Rs 800 billion)? Who stole from Pakistan dollar reserves (3 to 4 billion dollars)? Who increased Pakistan debt by around Rs 500 billion in couple of month and stole that? Who is stealing and transferring money from Pakistan that is causing rupee to devalue so fast (from Rs 60 to Rs 70 per dollar in few months)?

How and why all this meltdown in economy? It is obvious that these past crooks and thugs have already started looting and plundering the country. These thugs are keeping the country blind by Judges’ issue (talking about reinstating or not reinstating Iftikhar, the judge who illegally used influence of his office to get his son Arsalan illegal admission and illegal Job depriving the right of some poor person from getting admission and Job).

If anything was really wrong with economical management or governance of previous government, then we would have seen such economical meltdown during their period. But it was not happening, rather Pakistan was going up and up year after year, why?

During 8 years of previous government (Oct 1999 - Oct 2007 … rather even until Feb 2008):

KSE capitalisation increased from around Rs 250 billion in 1999 to around Rs 4800 billion.

Foreign exchange reserve that was less than one billion dollar increased to around 16 billion dollars.

Debt that went up 300 percent between 1988 (less than Rs 800 billion) to 1999 (reached around Rs 3000 billion) in 11 years stopped increasing even as much as interest on debt. For instance, Interest on Rs 3000 billion comes to more than Rs 400 billion a year and in 8 years, so just interest and interest on interest (around Rs 4500 billion accumulated) would have caused debt to reach Rs 7500 billion but it was around Rs 4000 billion in 2007 (If Pakistan had government like Nawaz and Zardari between 1999 and 2007 than if debt had followed the tread they left, Pakistan debt would have got at least 3 times more to around Rs 9000 billion).

Dollar that was Rs 17 in 1988 increased to Rs 54 in 1999 (open market rate) and then after 1999 rupee got stable such that Rs stayed around Rs 60 from 2002 to 2007 and as soon as habitual Liar Daar became Finance minister and corrupt government of Nawaz and Zardari came to power, rupee devalued from Rs 60 to Rs 70 (lost 15 percent so quickly).

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Re: Is Nawaz and Zardari already started looting the country?

Shortcut Aziz pulled off an Enron on Pakistan, read more about his kartoots, as alleged by your saintly PML[Q], which by the way was 'his' party.

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Re: Is Nawaz and Zardari already started looting the country?

I guess Musharraf will fire this government...hmmmmm

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Hush! How dare you! :mad:

Sa1eem is never wrong when it comes down to crunching numbers. Remember the enormous victory PML(Q) just had recently.

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Re: Is Nawaz and Zardari already started looting the country?

The points you mention are nothing to do with corruption. Musharraf is to be blamed for bringing back these tired faces. He had a chance to change the face of pakistan and instead he himself became corrupted by the system instead of transforming the system.

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alas Saleem - you're seeing things which don't exist! 2005 KSE crash was allegedly an insider job done in connivance of high & mightys of the time. While the mystery of that 2005 crash still remains unsolved, you're already jumping up & down and pointing fingers at your favorite targets for the recent meltdown of economy.

In the recent couple of months, there hasn't been a crash or stealing of capital from KSE as you're trying to paint the picture here.

When in the past, people here on the board would mention soaring commodity prices as well as lack of provisions, you would go around trying to link it all to global effects. Now have some heart Caesar - the current devaluation of rupee, high inflation, meltdown of econmy & increase of internal/external debts are all linked to global economic meltdown and shortage of food staples worldwide. Gilani, Zardari or Nawaz have nothing to do with all this.

Javed Hashmi joins PTI..
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Why no case against him in Pakistan by PML-Q, PPP, PML-N or any other group?

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Re: Is Nawaz and Zardari already started looting the country?

Sa1eem: How do you think they are "looting" the country? Have they launched any projects worth billions/trillions of dollars where they could steal it from? or are you suggesting that they are removing money directly from reserves? As you already said that the dive in KSE/Rupee vs Dollar is reflection of investors running away from country (so govt cannot be involved directly in the loot khasoot).

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PML[Q] and PML[N] arent in power, and PPP so far is interested in engaging the dictator, just wait and see, agey agey hota hai kya. Shortcuts lucky hes not based in Pakistan.

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both of then knew that their affiliated government won't last long and could be doomed any day, so may be that's y they're rushing in order to do all sorts of corruption and loot marr( if that's true)

so true

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And then do what?? Another elections or another Marshall law.

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They are trying to come up with some cases against him right now.

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Musharaf is not to blame for bringing these tired faces back. You forget that the people of Pakistan wanted these same faces back. Have you forgotten how many people voted PPP and PML-N? Mush knew that these corrupt politicians were still popular and he knew he would have to deal with one eventually.

People constantly blame Mush - you cant blame him for the fact that the nation is corrupt from head to toe. When the people of Pakistan want to change the system they will but until then one single leader alone cant do it.

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Musharraf did not bring them back... people brought them back....because compared to Musharraf they look like angels...

Replicating a Look!
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Brother, I do not know how much you know about stock Market and the way it works. Anyhow, when propaganda of corrupts starts using paid journalists, and no knowledge of stock market joins together (or desire to believe anything one likes) than everything looks scam, right?

Well, if 2005 crash seems mystery to you, let me explain you what happened: KSE was around 4500 at the beginning of 2004. It kept increasing at reasonable pace and by beginning of Sept 2004, it reached 5300. Then uncertainty started regarding Musharraf shedding his uniform or not. It was expected that if Mush would shed his uniform we might see economical meltdown else Pakistan would keep growing at reasonable pace. News regarding uniform issue was uncertain and thus KSE went into wait-and-see mode, stayed around 5300 through Sept and Oct.

In November the news was mix, noises could get heard that Musharraf might not shed his uniform, and KSE gained few hundred points touching 5600 by end of Nov. As signal became stronger on uniform issue, KSE kept increasing to touch 6200 by end of December 2004.

[Actually, in early December I wrote to some of my friends to buy Shares quickly as it is most unlikely Mush is going to shed his uniform and that could push KSE berserk, but be prepared of losses if he sheds the uniform].

Anyhow, at the end of December, Musharraf declared that he would not shed uniform and as expected, KSE took that news favourably with lot of excitement. End of January, KSE was 6800. End of February, KSE was 8300. By March 20, KSE was around 9600.

Then reality started sinking in. KSE was 5300 in around early Nov 2004. Thus it increased around 80 percent in 4 and half months (Nov ‘04-20 Mar ‘05), big correction was due. KSE index started going down.

End of March, KSE was around 8000. End of April, KSE was 7100. End of May, KSE was around 6700 (still, over 25 percent higher than 5300 at the beginning of Nov 2004, a realistic gain).

Now, how this loss of 2900 points during 20th March and end of May is considered as manipulated (a scam), when it followed after huge increases in share prices and its low point was 25 percent higher than where it started (early Nov 2004, or equal to January 2005 level)? Well, its low point of 6700 in May 2005 was 50 percent higher than January 2004 (when KSE-Index was 4470, again a very good return).

Anyhow, investors felt that KSE-index gone down a lot and buying started bringing KSE up again such that by end of June KSE-index was 7500. By end of December 2005, KSE was 9500 (recovered all lost points and KSE was touching its maximum). I do not think that the movement shows any malpractices or scam as such movements in fast moving third world stock markets are normal. One should remember that regardless of that crash, KSE gained over 110 percent in two years between January 1, 2004 and December 31, 2005 (a fantastic gain by any standard), showing booming economical conditions in Pakistan.

Contrarily, KSE started 21th April at 15700. This value is not after any sharp increases (so it cannot be re-adjustment) as KSE index was around 14300 at the end of Oct 2007 (around 10 percent increase in last 6 months, Nov-April, not a big increase) and now KSE index is less than 12600. That is, over 3000 points loss in KSE-index within last 5 weeks and still there is no sight of recovery, in comparison, KSE-index only lost 2900 points between March and May 2005 crash and that was also corrections after big increases, further KSE did turned around gaining all what it lost within 7 months, by the end of the year. (Even after that crash, KSE-index gained 55 percent during 2005, from 6400 at the beginning of 2005 to 9600 at the end of 2005, similar to year 2004. So, all serious investors gained and no one lost anything due to that crash other than 'short term' speculative investors ... in other words ... gamblers who may have got caught at wrong time).

So, why you think that this 3100 points loss in KSE-index (within last 5 weeks started on 21st April 2008) is not manipulated and 2900 loss in KSE-index points (during 10 weeks between March-May 2005) was manipulated? Is it because corrupts in Pakistani media and paid corrupt economists of political goons say so?

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One can see the sentiment of KSE from recent news that after continuous fall in KSE since April 20, yesterday KSE started negative, rose around 240 points after Gillani interview (on Tuesday morning) where he said that he likes President Musharraf and would follow his policies: [KSE has lost around 3400 points since April 20. It is worse crash than ever (and within 5 weeks). Maximum KSE lost in past was 2900 points (March-May 2005), but that was not loss as it was index correction because even after that loss of 2900 points, KSE was above what it was in January 2005 … and nevertheless, KSE recovered all those losses by end of the year (giving over 50 percent rise during the year 2005 .. from Jan to Dec 2005)].

Here is what Gillani said:
http://www.dawn.com/2008/05/27/welcome.htm

‘I like Musharraf’s support for democracy’: PM Gilani ISLAMABAD, May 27 (APP): Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani has said what he likes most in President Musharraf is his support for democracy and his straight-forwardness. “He (Musharraf) supports democracy. He is very frank, straight-forward,” Gilani said in an interview with a private television channel Tuesday. Gilani said his government would support the policies of the previous government if these coincided with the PPP manifesto - issues like Women Protection Bill and women’s representation in assemblies. However, Gilani said he has made changes in the policy in respect of war against terror with focus on finding root cause of the problem rather than use of force alone. Gilani said he also believed that the March 9 step by President Musharraf against the judiciary had cast a negative impact on his political goodwill. Talking about the challenges confronting the present government, Gilani mentioned electricity and flour crises, law and order situation and inflation. On upcoming budget, the Prime Minister said focus would be on primary education, basic health facilities and increase in wages. (Posted @ 16:40 PST)

But rumour today (Wed, 28 May) that President is going to resign turned the sentiment bad again and KSE lost around 570 points today (GEO News).

Here same is mentioned in ‘The News’ too, where it says that just buzz by PPP and PML(N) about impeaching President Musharraf is causing jitters in KSE and making the investors run out of Pakistan with their money (seems they have already transferred over 25 billion dollars out of Pakistan during last 3 months … since election result).

KARACHI: Karachi Stock Exchange (KSE) on the first trading day of the week today witnessed yet another landslide pulling down the KSE-100 index by over 500 points and the market crashing below even the 12,500 marks.

Whether the ruling parties would be able to muster enough support for the impeachment of President Musharraf or not, but the very buzz has left the market completely shaken and shattered, as the newly elected government appears to have completely lost the confidence of the entrepreneurs and investors from within and outside the country, who are no longer willing to make any fresh investment and instead draining their capital out of the country for the last three months, which the analysts conservatively estimate at a mammoth $25 billion. No wonder, the rupee slumped down to the lowest ever at over Rs70 to a dollar in a brief period of about three months.

The market opened today with chips down by 300 points and finding no good news in sight due to the worst ever turbulent political and economic situation in the country, while economic managers kept talking about further stringent measures such as levy of the CVT triggered another bout of panic selling, which saw the index fast reeling down to 12,494, slashed by over 517 points.

The bears kept ruling the roost, while the small investors struck by heavy losses seem totally lost and kept steering in a state shock at the market board showing all companies reaching their lower locks and placed in red zone. KSE-30 index also declined by 650 points and was seen traded near 14605 points.

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Re: Is Nawaz and Zardari already started looting the country?

so hows market doing Sa1eem?

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Re: Is Nawaz and Zardari already started looting the country?

^^ i don't think so he will reply, as it looks like that Zardari and Nawaz are putting back the money in the market... They might have red Sa1eem's thread...

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Actually, if you read my post, you will know that Pakistan economy is still strong and only needs confidence. All what is happening is not due to economical reasons but due to loss of confidence on present government, fear of their corruption, their past records, and perception of their lack of ability to run the country's economy effectively.

Nevertheless, present government (especially Prime Minister Gillani and new Finance minister who seems quite sensible, not like Liar Daar) repeatedly assured the market that they would follow the same economic policies of past government. Thus things has stabilised a bit, could not say that all is well.

[Possible causes could be: Bush open statement of support for President on Friday, Gillani interview on ARY and meeting with President on economical issues, plus there are some other good news too during last weekend that could have given a good breeze to stock market causing market to recover some of its ground Stock market lost last week].

I hope that thing do really gets better, as personally it is costing me a lot as I have already lost a fortune in Pakistan after election. For me, every point KSE gain or lose, it makes me feel as I gain or lose with it (quite reasonable amount).

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Re: Is Nawaz and Zardari already started looting the country?

^^ Oh bhai yeh batayaiN kay kya ab yeh dono hazraat mulk nahi loot rahay!!!

If the stock market shows the bearish trend then politicians are looting and if it shows bullish trend then what ? Ofcourse by your logic they are doing nice job, and in result market is recovering...

but i guess criticism for the sake of criticism does not have any logic what so ever...