CB…would you be inclined to research the celebrating of birthdays in the same way that you spoke to shaikhs and scholars about Christmas and Halloween? I trust you to do a good job of it and bring to light the answers and guidance that you receive from them.
I agree that an individual’s birthday may not be celebrated on a mass level but does that mean that it is then permitted? And why give charity on only THAT day? Why have a cake and cut it on THAT day?
I don’t mean to attack or belittle your chosen path CB…but I would like to understand the reasoning.
To be honest , Muzna, I did try to find out about this birthday thing .. some shaikhs suggested its not encouraged but is also not a sin to acknowledge the day , in modern times its one of those days that can be used as an opportunity to meet and greet friends … some others i spoke to suggested , its a non islamic thing to celebrate a birthday .. when i asked further , to see any kind of hadith or quranic ayah on this or even fatwa , they said there wasnt any specific one on individual birthday celebration ..
But , the reasoning I have been given is :
1- Prophet SAW never celebrated it not did the sahaba
2- spending lavishly on birthday parties comes under wasting money which is not encouraged for believers , as in, throwing huge parties which can be perceived as a show off etc etc
So , what i understood so far is that it really is one of those grey areas as per the first point , and , I intentionally stay away from any form of parties anyways .. Dawats or dinner get together in a limited circle , mostly family or close friends is just about it ! so i dont see what i am doing wrong here?
If however ,there was a clear indication on why acknowledging a birthday is a sin or a footstep into a bigger sin , I could correct myself .
but really is a birthday as big an event as christmas or halloween?
PS : charity alhumdullillah goes all year round , we do it in one form or the other ( sadka, shukrana etc ) on every opportunity we get, birthday being just one of those opportunities! its nothing different then when we do sadka after a nightmare !
Though I would like to be in on the trick and treating I do agree with blacklisted prince here. That is exactly how bidats come into existence. Over time and through miscommunication, misrepresentation and losing the true meaning of things. The story I read in Islamic history about how worshipping pictures and idols came into place was truly eye opening.
It went something like this… In ancient times there was a good town with religious ppl who followed Islam well. Then one of the men who was deemed as a very good example of following the true path passed away. Satan saw this as an opportunity and (as a traveller through that town) asked them that u ppl are so sad about losing such a good person in ur community, don’t u think that if I were to make a statue of him to commemorate him and place it in the towns center passerbys would look at it, remember him and his work and remember to do good deeds. They thought it was a good idea and let him build the statue.
So now this generation knew that religious leader so to some extent they might be following it. Their kids saw them stand by the statue and sort of look up to it. Now after 2 generations had passed, they lost the essence of the statue and overtime it just became something try prayed to and worshipped instead of what it had initially been. This generation of followers had probably heard very diluted stories if any, of the original religious person. And this is true. This is exactly whats happened with daata darbaar in Lahore and the gyaarween ka khatum stuff. I have no idea who they did it for but my mom used to make zarda too and distribute amongst neighbours. It was never unkay naam ka khatum or something, still regular food Allah k naam ka, but still linked to whatever gyaarween was (and I still have no idea what it was). I never understood it so wouldn’t have followed it but I’m glad she realized it was biddah alon with other Biddahs too and she stopped all of them all together. I remember a friend of mine asking me once (his mom used to go to the milaad and Quran khaain gatherings that my mom went to, she continued and my mom didn’t) “Yaar suna hae tumhari ammi Aur Khala wahabi ho gai Haen”, like it was a negative thing. And I was like sarcastically haan ho gai Haen.
On a seperate note, my mom had been so preconditioned to hearing that Wahhabis are bad/crazy/extreme, that though she was generally following what they follow, she didn’t and still doesn’t label herself wahabi. She’s apparently just a reformed Sunni following Quran and Hadith plain and simple. Although outsiders e.g regular Pakistani Sunnis would call her wahabi. Lol labels …fun isn’t it.
I had left this thread a while ago and forgotten and stumbled back on it just now.
I have not read earlier post yet.
To answer this:
You have failed to show anything wrong for those who are like rocks that remain secure in their positions despite the strong flow of water in a stream…and nothing moves them from their faith.
Those who are like the leaves or piece of wood do end up falling in to the deep fall and are weaker, than the stones which stay as strong structures.
Thanks CB.
Please understand that I’m not suggesting you are doing anything wrong. I clarified earlier that I don’t mean for this discussion to be a criticism on anyone’s faith. I asked the question(s) of you because I felt that I would get an answer that is reasonable and logical…which is more than I have seen coming from others in this thread.
There is always great debate in our family on the cake cutting part of the birthday celebration so I wanted to dig a little deeper there and see if I could take back some new knowledge to them. (That and the taking of/posing for photos.)
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I was going to post the same story but I didnt hv any valid source
Thats how statues n art pictures came into being
Btw I read somewhere this story is Nooh (A.S) k waqt ki !
replace statues with stories …. the erosion and confusion of meaning and authenticity and you get hadeeth.
and then you add culturally biased interpretations and further erosion of understanding and separating fact from fiction..and a few centuries and you get the mess we see. but hey, hadeeth can’t be bidet..can they? …thought so.
Just like to add my two cents that biddah is the practice that one considers as part of ibadat, thinking that doing such would give me some kind of sawaab.
Honestly, if some of you are doing trick and treating or carving pumpkin with the intention of sawab then you should recite your kalimah one more time. Those of you who are doing it just for fun, keep doing it. Islam does not stop you from fun, unless it directly clashes with one of the teachings of islam.
I understand u disagree with the authenticity of the story but do u disagree with the point of it as well. I drew from the story and how it relates to my surroundings and today. Whether it is completely authentic or not is not as important to me as its essence. And since I’ve seen it happening in my lifetime (with gyaarween ka khatum and daata darbar stuff I feel the story completely speaks to me, it might seem far fetched to others ofcourse).
There was also a discussion branching off about celebrating birthdays and anniversaries. I watched a video once where dr. Zakir naik answered that question and he did it pretty well. This is something close that I could find but not exactly that one. I think he clearly said in that other video that it’s not haram and that it’s allowed (as long as ur not doing any other prohibited thing in the birthday, drinking dancing etc.) but it this video he’s trying to be a little too politically correct. Anyway worth a watch.
And yes I agree with tlk’s take on it. As long as u r aware of the connotations that revolve around halloween trick or treating, but ur just doing it for the candy then maybe it’s ok
I feel the essence is important and for that reason the typical minutia people get stuck on is not my concern, like made up terms like “madhab” and what nots. My point was that people have concerns with bidah yet staunchly defend and use stories from books compiled decades and centuries after the prophets passings as basis of their position. I am suggesting that if someone is do concerned about cutting a cake as bidah which it’s not considering no one does it as some religious obligation however they are probably engaged in bidah based on turning hadeeth into gods word.
The issue is when people have a religious basis to make an issue of a birthday party but then are content with madhab and existence of stuff like masyar and Mutah etc.
As far as Wahhabis go, I lived in KSA. Those puritanical clowns are not to be used as an example to emulate.
I think Wahhabism in KSA seems too strong willed, more than it might actually be. They are easy on some points but seem too right winged on others. And by seem I mean the culture that they have so intricately intertwined with religion that there’s no escaping it. That’s to say, there face covering is only a strong rule in front of other Saudis, they think hawwww log kya kahaingay (sound familiar?). They are not so big on covering their faces outside the country and wherever other Saudi families will not know they are Saudi. I know this first hand (from multiple situations). Driving for women again at an extreme.
But otherwise they don’t make religion difficult by saying k Chaar sunnat Chaar farz do sunnat do nafl nahi parhay to Zuhr ki namaz nahi hogi. Do u know how many namazain I’ve skipped just because it was so stressed k poori namaz parhni hae. When I could still muster up anti-laziness for just 4 fard easily, but I didn’t cuz apparently my 4 fard would not be good enough. And there are hardly many mosques that the imam prays 20 taraweeh at, mostly 8 or 12, because they say u shouldn’t burden urself. In Pakistan if u go for taraweeh and don’t pray 20 they say ur not really into it, bus haazri lagwanay aaye thay. In Basic sunnah and Quran following Islam they say u don’t need to go all out on everything, religion is not supposed to be difficult. But when we get into the meen maikhay it becomes this big thing we can’t handle. Same thing with this whole birthday and halloween thingie. Jo farz kaha hae ussay poora karain the rest will come to u. Everyone has an opinion about the beard and the ankle covering pants, but what they fail to realize is that if they just look at the big picture, just try fulfilling only the basic 5 pillars, namaz being the most important one (cuz its everyday) and the rest will come to u. Ithink it’s Satan’s way of keeping us away from finding the path, just get us stuck in some really stupid inconsequential thing to just throw us off-course, so we say this little itty bitty thing doesn’t make sense so the whole thing is just a farse, let me not waste my time with anything, not even what I know for sure is right.
I dont understand where this word Biddah came from to describe a muslim celebrating some event . Biddah is when innovation is made in Islam. Celebrating Halloween or Xmas is not an islamic event in the first place !
Basically there are elements of shirk and belief in magic, evil and superstition that engulfs many muslims when they celebrate Xmas and Halloween , its basically about going against the teachings of Islamic .. I think Biddah is a very diffferent element all together ..
I disagree with this statement, on a major level. Is it ok if I drink Alcohol with the intention to have “fun” but I should not drink it if I am doing so with the intention of sawaab?
Or on a smaller level, is it ok for me to do tilawat with rock music as a background , coz its going to be fun , though i cant do it , if I am doing it for the intention of sawaab ..
I understand that we are all varied in the level of obedience to Islam , so its acceptable I guess when one says , I know its wrong and am trying to improve or thats the way I am for now .. but going against the teachings is a completely different story all together ..
I don’t think that you understood what TLK wrote.
Have another read.
He clearly states that you cannot engaged in activities that are directly clashing with one of the teachings of Islam. So no…you cannot drink alcohol for fun because drinking alcohol is in violation of a teaching of Islam. As far as I know there is no ambiguity about it.
I dont think it is wrong, and I dont see how carving a pumpkin is something wrong u less you are sacrificing it in the name of satan and that is just crazy!!! We do it with the kids and my husband actually is really creative so it’s his time to shine!! My girls love the whole pumpkin picking process and it’s something they look forward to just because it is fun pumpkins are big and messy and once in a year is all I can handle after these three are done!!
