So lets start stoning to death, its really easy to say that while sitting in the offices & drawing rooms.
Are you having difficulty imagining stoning to someone yourself or imagining you being the victim? Remember, we are talking about shariah law, not what/how Taliban carry it out.
Islam doesn't allow selective following but lets have a Ijtihad on it, we can't apply certain Shariaah rules in today's world, we just can't. They are consider unhuman & atrocities against humanity.
One example can be "Hadood Laws" which were repelled by President Musharraf in 2004, how can a women produce two witness after she got raped? This is just sick.
Ijtihad is done on issues which are not already covered by Quran/Hadith/Sunna. Ijtihad is not done if we can offer Friday prayer on Sunday because leaving for Friday prayers causes "performance" issues in today's corporate America (or world for that matter). If punishment is described in sharia already then you need to follow it.
Shaitan will always make people say "oh that is cruel" for a prescribed punishment. There are many reasons behind it, I don't want to go there.
It is often argued that… since Sharia is Allah law and states certain punishments for each crime, they are immutable.
But with liberal movements in Islam expressing concerns about hadith validity, a major component of how Islamic law is created, questions have arisen about administering certain punishments too.
In 1998 Turkish Constitutional Court gave verdict against Shariaah saying that “rules of sharia”,… “were incompatible with the democratic regime,” stating that “Democracy is the antithesis of sharia.” Source
Scholars like Javed Ahmed Ghami already provide blueprints for the change in Hadood Laws in today’s environment, for example:
1) a woman’s testimony is equal to that of a man’s
2) Head covering for women is a cherished part of Muslim social custom and tradition, but it is not a directive of the shariah (Divine law)
3) The Islamic punishments of hudud (Islamic law) are maximum pronouncements that can be mitigated by a court of law on the basis of extenuating circumstances
4) Rape of women doesn’t require women to produce four witnesses
..etc..etc..
The point is we are seeing a Renaissance in Muslim World
bhai mere, there is Submittors group too, there are many other “movements” which probably came about due to similar pressure that you are seeing, but staying Muslim is not an easy challenge
Oki please tell me which kind a Muslim ? Which sect i have to follow to be in Jannat? The most easiest way look like “blow myself” …
Submittor’s? I was reading a book on Moorish Spain and i get to know that 800 years ago Muslim women were famous for: music, poetry, dancing, Fashion designing.. Even Opera & Renaissance found their roots in Muslim Spain. I wonder if these things were not haraam at that time, how can they be now?
Our history is golden, but sick Mullahs manipulate it. But indeed they will be defeated with full force. “Those who invoke history will certainly be heard by history. And they will have to accept its verdict.”
There is no sect which can be a “guarantee” for your heaven. Read Quran and Sunnah, Ahadith to see whether what happened few centuries ago was in accordance with Islam or not
Reference to “blow up” only shows your frustration, not the education
There is no sect which can be a "guarantee" for your heaven. Read Quran and Sunnah, Ahadith to see whether what happened few centuries ago was in accordance with Islam or not ;)
Reference to "blow up" only shows your frustration, not the education :p
....and last time i checked, Turkey was revising Haadith, maybe they already done it.
CJ will be heading the bench of 8 other justices and we can hope the involved will be punished or brought to justice.
I think CJ also missed something, in Swat Provincial Government already authorize the implementation of Nazam-Adal or Shariaah Qazi System. Government of Pakistan has no more authority over the Swat Area. What can CJ do is to call the provincial government members. He can't do anything about Swat, sigh
A step in the right direction, is a step much needed. Establishment of "Qazi system" does not mean, the residents and people living there are not accountable to the Govt. of Pakistan. Supreme Court can summon people. It might just turn out to be that Qazi judges will be ordered to enforce the law on people who committed this act.
But atleast there's a ray of hope when an issue like this actually gets noticed by someone who can/will do something.
A step in the right direction, is a step much needed. Establishment of "Qazi system" does not mean, the residents and people living there are not accountable to the Govt. of Pakistan. Supreme Court can summon people. It might just turn out to be that Qazi judges will be ordered to enforce the law on people who committed this act.
But atleast there's a ray of hope when an issue like this actually gets noticed by someone who can/will do something.
Yes they are not accountable to Gov. of Pakistan, and neither Supreme Court of Pakistan can repelled any decision by Qazi Court. Its all in the Nazam-Adaal document, read it its truly shocking what ANP government did to us.
Now after just one video people are crying out loud against the Qazi System, but before everyone was rejoicing and dancing on the so-called peace.
Once again, Media of Pakistan failed to release the video before the International Media did. It was CNN & BBC which report it last week, then our media feel sharaam too..
they are going to discard whose historical context can’t be found and those also who were introduced by later cultural interactions. Indeed a great job they are doing, :k:
Too bad, they won’t be able to do away with flogging though:
24.2: The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
Too bad, they won't be able to do away with flogging though:
24.2: The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
Yes these are Hadood laws which can't be changed or repelled, but they are for certain environment, situation & time. I seriously believe you can't implement them in today world's, nearly all of the posters in this thread are from west, so indeed its really easy to say to implement them !
Turkey can change the haadith text right? After all its not the divine text !
Yesterday Bolta Pakistan is related to this issue, a very heated program, again Mushtaq Minhas label this video as India/Usa/Jews conspiracy… i just wish i can kill myself.. These scumbags are destroying the religion & country.. and we are talking about conspiracies theories.
It's at least good to see pakistanis for once feeling ashamed and depressed after seeing the true face of talibani islam. I only wish such anger and sadness was also present for the last 20 odd years when same things and worse was being carried out by our isi sponsored talibs in afghanistan or more recently the beheading of locals and the polish engineer also carried out by the same pigs.
By this rate, maybe in 20 years we will even begin to openly criticize all the jihadi tanzeems. Too bad, by that time they'll be ruling us.
Those who carry the guns should NOT be the ones dispensing justice. I have no idea what the context is here, however I think it's laughable that there are those who suggest this is not normative, or to be expected, in some cultures with respect to the given allegations.
The question isn't if the punishment is harsh or not - that falls into the realm of subjective opinion, skewed by personal bigotries, bias, and possibly fear of loosing face in front of the people whom we so desperately want to respect us (...and to be sure the sentiment is not reciprocated).
The question is, do the facts of the case merit the punishment as per local law and custom?
I'd suggest that when the people holding the guns are the ones dispensing justice, then we could perhaps intuitively answer in the negative.
In our early history, personal accountability and virtue of the pious pioneers of Islamic state craft could perhaps assuage our fears of law being manipulated for personal reasons. This early state of affairs where there was a conflation of rulers/soldiers/judges , I argue, cannot be construed as setting a norm for how to base any legal system going forward...in this sense, I think one of the things Westerners got right was their attempt at separation of powers and responsibilities. That concept scales, and is more resilient in the face of arbitrary arbiters of law.
