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Posted by diwana
Please read my post and you responded exactly as I predicted.
Be careful? What does that mean?
If you are still not understanding what is said in the article then its sad.
And there is nothing about freedom of press or media here that we are discussing. Many countries have media or press questioning the governmental affairs not so particular for TOI. By praising the role of media will not get you anywhere. Just see what is said.
Government is run by people. These include politicians. If politicians act against what is portrayed then whats there to continue to portray and fool others?
Its a plural when it is said politicians.
However, my job is not to 'dig' something to make you convinced. All One can do is to open eyes and look around.
You mentioned if the reason is given then you will understand. However all you have said is that you do not understand the significance of the article.
Please read below my other posts.
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Well my dear friend, congratulations for ur exact prediction, I m impressed by ur genious, feel honoured to be in discussion with U.
I admit my inability to understand the article U quoted. so I request U again to kindly make me understand what this article says that makes India not secular. And brother, its actions and not mere articles or statements which makes a nation secular or religious one. I will be thankful if U indicate some actions of Indian government which cast doubts on its secular credentials.
I was not praising the role of media but just trying in vain to make U understand that these kind of articles which flays government are common where media is free. U can sense that any particular politician or politicians have done something wrong, but passing judgement on Nation's Secular status can be fallacious.
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Government is run by people. These include politicians. If politicians act against what is portrayed then whats there to continue to portray and fool others?
Its a plural when it is said politicians.
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Well now I understand that politicians means plural, thanks a lot for ur information, but still I dont understand what exactly our politicians have done repeatedly, which prompted U to draw ur conclusion, ie India is not secular. Plz give me another chance to understand and be thankful to U.
As per ur instructions, I have opened my eyes and looked around too, I dont find any reason with our government policies,both on paper and in actions, that can lead me to conclusion that India is not secular. U can help me out if I m not correct.
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Posted by diwana
I think you are close to what I wanted to say.
As it is mentioned by PIU also (if I understood him right), one does not need a secular state for giving privileges to minorities.
It is very difficult to have a secular state in its real sense when state is run by people and its impossible to think people will not think in terms of religion even when they are dealing with governmental affairs. This is aside from other gains such as winning a seat in election or getting monitory support from people in the name of religion.
Portraying India as a secular state is just a false belief.
But off course people are free to believe whatever they feel comfortable with.
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I asked PIU to name any country which gives privilages to minorities without being secular, he has come with none. Maybe u can enlighten us by giving name of any such state.
If its difficult to have a secular state than can U let us know what kind of government can we easily have? I doubt if U can answer this. It seems that U are just speaking out of ur biased views about India. Otherwise nothing should stop U to give plethora of reasons to prove ur point if U have some.
To get to any logical conclusion, permit me to ask some questions to U, if U can answer. Okay lets presume India is not secular, than what kind of state is it? And if there can be no secular state, than name a single religious state on earth. And kindly let me know what kind of state "Islamic Republic Of Pakistan" is? If U will answer these questions in as simple language as it has been asked, than U will help this discussion a lot to move towards positive direction. Hope U obilige.
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Posted by diwana
One thing I would like to add is if we see secularism practiced by a country like France, it has taken the meaning of secularism in completely other direction.
Meaning:
Secularism= anti-religious laws.
Based on not allowing people to even wear religiously symbolic clothes or items for sikhs, christians, muslims and jews etc. in govt. schools or those private schols getting govt. assistance.
So in this regard its not the tolerance but intolerance to people practicing religion what is considered secularism by French. This is opposite to what one might consider as the basis of India being a secular state or is being portrayed in this thread.
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So brother, how U put India on ur secularism meter considering the fact that every religion is free to be practised and propogated by its followers freely. no prohibition of any religious symbol anywhere. And as u have enlightened that what secularism means to france, plz lets know what secularism means to India too. Thanks in advance.
Peace.
