Prove to me there is no Jesus for you yourself said there was Jesus and so does the Quran, so prove to me he did not exist. His name can derive from many languages Yahweh, Jesus, Savior, Prince of peace, Lord of Lords, King of Kings, deliverer, redeemer, so on and so on, forgive me if I do not speak arabic, or hebrew, I speak english and Jesus is the english word for the son. For whosesoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life, John 3:16.
Isaiah 7
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you [1] a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and [2] will call him Immanuel. [3]
Footnotes
7:14 The Hebrew is plural.
7:14 Masoretic Text; Dead Sea Scrolls and he or and they
7:14 Immanuel means God with us .
Matthew 1
The Birth of Jesus Christ
18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[1] because he will save his people from their sins."
22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"[2] --which means, "God with us."
24When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
Footnotes
1:21 Jesus is the Greek form of Joshua, which means the Lord saves.
1:23 Isaiah 7:14
Jesus
Read about the life of Jesus Christ in our God's Story presentation. - Go
Meaning: Salvation, or "the Lord is salvation," "the Lord Saves."
"Jesus" is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Joshua which was originally Hoshea (Oshea) (Num. 13:8, 16 - the King James Version of the Bible spells it "Oshea"), but changed by Moses into Jehoshua (Num. 13:16; 1 Chr. 7:27), or Joshua. After the Exile it assumed the form Jeshua, from which came the Greek form Jesus. It was given to our Lord to denote the object of his mission, to save. An angel told Joseph (his foster-father), "You are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21).
JESUS CHRIST - Je'sus, the proper, as Christ is the official, name of our Lord. To distinguish him from others with the same name, he is spoken of as "Jesus of Nazareth" (John 18:7), and "Jesus the son of Joseph" (John 6:42).
The life of Jesus on earth may be divided into two great periods, (1) his private life, till he was about thirty years of age; and (2) his public life, which lasted about three years.
In the "fulness of time" he was born at Bethlehem, in the reign of the emperor Augustus, of Mary, who was betrothed to Joseph, a carpenter (Matt. 1:1; Luke 3:23; compare John 7:42). His birth was announced to shepherds (Luke 2:8-20). Wise men from the east came to Bethlehem to see him who was born "King of the Jews," bringing gifts with them (Matt. 2:1-12). Herod's cruel jealousy led to Joseph's flight into Egypt with Mary and the infant Jesus, where they waited till the death of this king (Matt. 2:13-23), when they returned and settled in Nazareth, in Lower Galilee (2:23; compare Luke 4:16; John 1:46, etc.). At the age of twelve years he went up to Jerusalem to the Passover with his parents. There, in the temple, "in the midst of the doctors," all that heard him were "astonished at his understanding and answers" (Luke 2:41, etc.).
Eighteen years pass during which we have no record, except that he returned to Nazareth and "increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man" (Luke 2:52).
He entered his public ministry when he was about thirty years of age. It is generally believed to have lasted about three years. Each of these years had particular features of its own.
THE YEARS OF JESUS CHRIST'S MINISTRY
The first year may be called the year of obscurity, both because the records of it which we possess are very scanty, and because he seems during it to have been only slowly emerging into public notice. It was spent for the most part in Judea.
The second year was the year of public favor, during which the country had become thoroughly aware of him; his activity was constant, and his reputation was known through the length and breadth of the land. It was almost wholly passed in Galilee.
The third was the year of opposition, when the public favor ebbed away. His enemies multiplied and assailed him with more and more persistence, and at last he fell victim to their hatred. The first six months of this final year were passed in Galilee, and the last six in other parts of the land"
The Gospels are eyewitnesses accounts of the words and work of Jesus Christ in many different aspects.
Jesus was also the name of four other men in the Bible...
Joshua, the son of Nun (the King James Version says "Jesus" in Acts 7:45 and Heb. 4:8; all new translations avoid confusion by using the name "Joshua")
A Jewish Christian surnamed Justus (Col. 4:11)
Jesus Barabbas (sometimes just called Barabbas) - prisoner released by Pontius Pilate (Matt. 27:16-17)
An ancestor of Christ (Luke 3:29). Translated as Jose in the King James Version and NJKV, Joshua in the NIV and NASB.
w&w makes wonderful points about God coming from within- a spiritual one-on-one with the Creator of All Things.
Unfortunately, it was presented in a manner which does not necessarily convey to others the spirit of Jesus. I have to believe his frustration speaks louder than his piety, and he truly wants to understand. It is difficult to discuss spirituality, however, while others talk of theology.
Modern day Christians believe that God lives within us. If you can only repeat text, verses and chapters- you are only as good as a typewriter. We are all spiritual beings, striving to be the best people that God has intended us to be. For some, it is through Jesus Christ. To follow his teachings of love, tolerance and peace allows his spirit to flow through you. It is a much more rewarding experience than letting your spirituality and soul development be nothing more than how well you can memorize a book of how-to's.
God gave us a brain to use. We should not rely on a book that is 1400, 2000 or even 4000 years old for our day-to-day relationship with God and humanity.
These Holy Books are blueprints for us to follow. If the followers of any of the 3 monotheistic religions lived their lives as dictated by their scripture word by word, we would all still be living in the Dark Ages.
For hundreds of years the Bible was only read by learned clergymen who quoted scripture, keeping the populace in constant fear. The modern era began when man started to think for himself and break the chains of fundamentalist Christianity.
That's why I think relious/spiritual discussions should involve more than quotations from scripture to prove a right or wrong. But in this world of religous debate, it all comes down to verses and chapters - not the spirit from within to which w&w refers.
w&w, I don't mean to speak for you, but I understand your expression of feeling the spirit of Jesus.
Be patient..
Listen.
Be tolerant.
Don't judge.
Spread your words through peace.
Speak the truth.
Like Jesus.
[This message has been edited by Seminole (edited June 10, 2002).]
Dear Ibrahim, may God abundantly bless you.
Why are you so angry and slander everybody who doesn't fit your "headknowledge". Is this islam-love in praxis ? Thanks again !But no, thanks.
For the record:
Matth.24:35
HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY. BUT MY WORDS WILL BY NO MEANS PASS AWAY.
Who cares, what a, b, d, c, or ibrahim says.
Glory to God
Jesus is Lord
Dear W&W,
Good to have you back, now, did you read what I said, or have you made a mistake here by writing as above?
** I said the Bible is fabricated because Eesa the Messiah has been changed to Jesus the Christ**
** I said Allah has been changed to God and that is an error **
Now to proof this is simple, all you need to do is look up the Hebrew or Greek alphabets and you will find NO letter “j” in them , which is also the case in Latin.
Hence if there are no alphabets in the original language for such sounds , why would the translation have them??
So you see the English translations is a fabrications and the Names “Jesus” never existed in the Hebrew or Greek or Latin manuscripts which are used as the originals for the current Bible.
** Am I CLEAR so far, this is just like saying I altered your name according to my whims and fancies, which God, nor Christ will EVER allow, neither would you.**
Similarly the word “God” was NEVER used by the Prophets at any time to address the Creator, as claimed in the current Bible. So again you need to look at the so called originals to understand that. And what was used, was only Allah.
** Allah or his 98 attributes, has been altered/ fabricated as God/Lord in the Bible, which means you are being misled by believing in them.**
Dear W&W , ** Yes ** , The creator has many attributes which means He has many names, 99 in total as reveled in scriptures. Yet man has no authority to alter it. This is like I have no authority to change your name. If I did I am insulting you and have no respect for you. Which would be a grave wrong. Thus the word “Jesus “ pronounced with the J sound does not mean son in any language, the word “ben” in Hebrew means son and the word Jesus is a fabrication that originates from Eesa , which they needed to do in order to make their faith look different from Islam which alone conveys the truth and is without alterations.
Ibrahim says: O Lord ! My dear lady, I hope you are ready for this , since now I have to explain to you what this verse means, knowing full well , you will just run away without listening, anyway here goes nothing.
Let me quote John 3:16 as written in the Bible…….
Of course, we ** Muslims believe in Eesa (pbuh) for what he was. But, we do not believe in what he was not.**
We believe Eesa son of Mariyam (pbuh) better known by his false name Jesus Christ
**
was a “Messiah”;
“Spirit from Allah”;
“Word of Allah”;
the SIGN for mankind
“the righteous Prophet” as well as
“the Messenger of Allah” and
“the son of Virgin Mariyam (mary)”.
But, we do not believe Eesa was “the begotten son of God.” **
The truth of the matter is apostle John never ever wrote; Jesus was “the begotten” son of God in the original Greek text. The most recent edition of ** the revised King James Version has omitted the word “begotten” from the above text. **
Please obtain a copy of the `Gideon Bible’ from any Hotel or a Motel near you. Copies are distributed free since 1899, all over the world, by The Gideon Society. In the beginning of this famous Bible, John 3:16 is translated in 26 popular world languages. You may be amazed to discover that in the English translation, the editors have used the traditionally accepted term “His only begotten son.” Whereas, in several other languages the editors have used the term “His unique son” or “His one of a kind son.”
John 3:16 and John 1:18 each have the word monogenes' in Greek. This word ordinarily means "of a single kind". ** As a result, "unique" is a good translation.** The reason you sometimes find a translation that renders the word as "only begotten" has to do with an ancient heresy within the church. In response to the Arian claim that Jesus was made but not begotten, Jerome (4th century) translated the Greek term monogenes’ into Latin as `unigenitus’ (“only begotten”). ( Paul B. Duff, 22 April, 1992. The George Washington University)
Professor Duff’s response was based upon Anchor Bible', volume 29, page 13-14. The Greek term for "begotten" is gennao’ as found in Mt. 1:2, which John did not use.
Romanised Greek: John 3: 16. Houtoos gar eegapeesen ho Theos ton kosmon, hooste ton huion ton ** monogenee ** edooken, hina pas ho pisteuoon eis auton mee apoleetai all echee zooeen aioonion
(AV)John 3 :16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his ** only begotten Son, ** that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
( NIV)John 3:16. "For God so loved the world that he gave his** one and only Son, ** that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life
compare with :
John 1:18. Theon oudeis heooraken poopote. ** * Monogenees Theos*** ho oon eis ton kolpon tou Patros ekeinos exeegeesato.
John 1:18. No one has ever seen God, but ** God the One and Only, ** who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.
Now compare
Hebrews 11: 17. By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his ** one and only** son,
Heb 11:17. Pistei proseneenochen Abraam ton Isaak peirazomenos kai ton ** monogenee** proseferen, ho tas epangelias anadexamenos,
** If the Father and His Son were both in “existence” from the Day One, and no one was, a micro second before or after, and, no one was “greater or lesser” in status, than why is one called the Father and the other His begotten Son? **
When Did the act of “Begetting” take place?
If YES, where was the “Begotten Son” before the act?
If NO, why call him the “Begotten Son”?
** I am often told that Jesus is God because Jesus called God his Father ** , if we look closer we see that Many Prophets called God their Father , and no Prophet including Jesus called themselves the only begotten son of God oh , except for David (Psalm 2:7)KJV , now let’s see the Prophets who called God their Father identically to Jesus :
"…What shall I do when my heavenly ** Father** hath so commanded me ? (Sifra to Lev; Qedoshim 20,26)
"…Since I have done the will of ** Abba** who is in the Heavens "(Lev R para 32)
“…These buffetings have made me Love my heavenly ** father” ** (Midr.Tehillim 12:5)"
“I will exalt the lord saying 'thou art my ** father”** (ibid 51:10)
“Beloved are Israel for they are called Son of the Highest” (Aboth 3:3)
lets now see what the Jews wrote in their Apocryphal books .
“But thy providence O Father Governeth it” (Wis. 14:3)
“O Lord, Father and governor of all my life..”(Eccl 23:1)
“O Lord , Father and G-d of my life..”(Eccl 23:4)
The term ** “Our Father which art in Heaven”** is one of the three major forms of the address in Jewish liturgy .
Torah :
(The following verse is God talking to David about Solomon)"** I will be His Father and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor. ** (Chronicles 17:13)
Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which can not be measured or counted. In the place where it is said to them, ** ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called 'sons of the living God. ** (Hosea 1:10)
The kings of Israel are referred to as sons of God because they are to be His representatives, ruling in his place on earth over His people.
“I said, You are Elokim; ** you are all sons of the Most High” ** (Psalm 82:6 )
In conclusion, we see that Christ only said a phrase that was commonly said by Jews in his days, and Christ did not claim to have a monopoly on son-ship with God. We are all God’s children, christ is not the only one and never claimed to be the Begotten one.
Hot Tip: (precise and pertinent)
Jesus said to Mary; “…go to my brethren, and say to them, ** I ascend to my Father and your Father…”** (John 20:17).
This verse demonstrates that the usage of term `Father’ by Christ was not in a physical sense but was purely metaphorical for the Creator. ** As for Christ being a “unique son”, he, unlike us, was created by the Creator without a physical Father. **
Thus you have been misconceiving what the Muslims understand about Christ and have failed to see the misconceptions of the Christians.
Ibrahim says : ** Yes,** this is the Prophesy about Prophet Eesa (pbuh) (not the fabricated name Jesus)and the way he will be conceived and YES Muslims believe that he was a SIGN , and was raised by Allah and will be sent back to destroy the cross, which the Christians have invented, just like the name Jesus has replaced his real name.
Now, see how his name will be called Immanuel in this verse and yet in the Gospel it has been changed to Jesus when the Greek Originals records it as Iesus.
** That is the problem , now if you believed in holy matters and TRUTH, such errors like altering Blessed peoples names cannot be accepted as Holy but deceptions of shiatan. **
Ibrahim says: this is contradictory to Jewish laws, which enjoins that the rightly guided MUST separate from those who had erred. So much so a women is considered unclean in her monthly periods and cannot be touched even by a rightly guided jew. Thus Joseph (false name, real name should be Yusof ) would have become guilty of breaking the laws, if that was the case.
Ibrahim says: see. how this contradicts what was foretold in Isaiah 7:14??? Remember God is not an author of confusion. Thus it is Clear the Jews altered the texts just like the Christians altered the texts.
Ibrahim says : again this is contradictory in the sense that he will guide mankind to keep away from sinning not save them from it, by his very presence, appearance on earth .
Ibrahim says: you see Immanuel is being translated here , whereas Jesus is not being translated here, thus your assertion that Jesus means son is false and also because they are pointing to Isaiah 7:14, which is the correct prophesy, it does not mean, Mary can be proven as a virgin. To prove that, you need the help of the revelations from the Qur’an which is missing in this passage and the Gospel.
Now since you are a lady tell me, how can you proof you are a virgin, say if tomorrow, indeed you got pregnant without anyone touching you??
Now think hard, go get medical help, whatever, but try and prove that you are a virgin such that mankind will have no doubts about it ( this includes artificial insemination ) just make your own parents believe in you and see if at all that is possible?
Take it as a challenge, since you have believed based on the Bible, that Mary was virgin because Isaiah 7:14 says so. Which no human being will accept.
** Now don’t get me wrong, I am NOT in anyway casting doubt on Mary (pbuh) , she was able to proof that she was virgin for sure, such that all believed Christ was born without a father , but that part is missing in the Bible, so I want you to prove it by using the bible.**
Ibrahim says : Now this will not be sufficient to proof that Mary was a Virgin, would it? So again here in this version as told by Matthew, the story is incomplete and written in order to establish faith in Christ but grossly lacking in details and has fabricated contents, as Joseph would not, nor any righteous Jew first hide the fact that his women is pregnant out of wedlock and later claim she was a virgin when she was pregnant without proof. ** Under Jewish law both will be killed for adultery. **
Ibrahim says: all this is nonsense, when Hebrew did not have a letter J, nothing in Hebrew will have anything starting with a J. including Jehovah, Joshua, Jerusalem, Joseph, Jacob, John etc etc
Ibrahim says: as I said before, why don’t you find out by looking at the alphabets Hebrew, Latin and Greek are composed of, which will prove the above as nonsense.
Ibrahim says : I have done that, it is now up to you , to find out whether or not the Hebrew, Greek and Latin have any letter “j” in them for such words to appear in the Bible. Meaning no person or country or city can have a name starting with the letter J in Hebrew or Greek books.
I understand your expression of feeling the spirit of Jesus.
Be patient..
Listen.
Be tolerant.
Don't judge.
Spread your words through peace.
Speak the truth.
Like Jesus.
This is indeed, The WAY to Please The CREATOR, and each of us are a Work in Progress, as we LISTEN to The HOLY SPIRIT within Our Hearts. Growing More Each Day, Maturing in CHRIST.
I shall no Longer share another Word with The One here who has Already commited Himself, to what HE BELIEVES is The WAY of GOD.
My Purpose is to Produce FRUIT, NOT to Debate, for I KNOW The TRUTH.
Let him Believe he has Victory, in Pleasing Allah, for the Fact is, The Creator is NOT smiling upon him, but is indeed sad and disappointed.
I simply responded to him, for the sake of Others who may READ, and are In Search of TRUTH, and Have Questions, yet may not ask for reason they only Know.
He Truly has no Idea how LOST he Is, for He Longs to Serve The CREATOR with His Heart, yet Rejects The ONLY TRUTH that shall Lead to LIFE FOREVER with The Creator.
There are so many upon this Earth, who worship many GODS of many names, for they do NOT even Know who GOD is.
Dear Kandern, can I call you dearest or darling , maybe? that will sound as if, I love you so , don’t get me wrong but you seem to claim , you have seen me as being angry, so I just want you to feel comfortable that I am not angry with you or anyone.
BTW do you have a web cam on my monitor or something? , I don’t mind having one, if you are willing to pay for it .
[quote]
And slander everybody who doesn't fit your "headknowledge".
[/quote]
Ibrahim says : you know you could have been right, if you had been posting for long but your posts number is only TWO, so I bet you will have a hard time trying to peddle such a notion without evidence. Yet I doubt you will succeed because you like many others makes accusations, when the truth is too difficult for them to accept, which I have to excuse.
On the other hand I wont hesitate to apologize to anyone I may have slandered unintentionally .
[quote]
For the record: Matth.24:35 HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY. BUT MY WORDS WILL BY NO MEANS PASS AWAY.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: you see kandern , this is a great quote to market Christianity to the blind, but when you read this
John 21: 25 (ASV) And there are also many other things which Jesus did, ** the which if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that should be written.**
As a Christian You must believe in it my friend, so when you believe as above, one gets to wonder why all the sayings of Christ alone, will not be able to occupy one full page of a news paper even.
Thus Mathew 24:35 becomes a false saying unless you realize that it was not with regards to Christ words but with regards to Allah’s words, which indeed will remain forever.
So make no mistake, that is why the Qur’an will always remain Intact, ** whereas the bible has been revised over and over and over again.**
Did you know , now there are making a gospel for the gays too?
** Thus the words of Christ has passed away but the words of Allah remains**
Hope that helps
Regards
Ibrahim
** your reputation is not raised by lowering others and neither is mine**
Well why do u need the holy spirit to be in your heart....i believe that Allah should be in your heart because only then can u see the path described by him....isn't it.
wonderingandwaiting sighs; Ibriham you will never understand will you. I have a question for you, are you arabic? Now to the letter thing, J is in the english language, therefore is a valid concept to that which we speak of, it does not matter if there were no J in the hebrew, greek, or arabic translations because the name means the same in all.
Now about the virgin, it does not matter that YOU believe Mary was a vigin or not, the simple fact that God supplied the information to the prophets and to Mary and Joseph themselves is enough to believe, that is where faith steps in. This was prophesied before Jesus was ever put into the womb, and you say it is false. Well how do you explain the prophecies. And as far as the Jewish people are concerned, God put blinders on thier eyes so that the gentiles ccould be saved otherwise we would all go to hell if he were to have opened the Jews eyes at that time, he loved us so much that he blinded them in order to save us, THIS INCLUDES YOU TO.
Ibriham says; there is no Jesus, but yet Jesus is mentioned I believe (do not hold me to this number, I will get the statistics for you) 93 times in the Quran.
As for quoting John 3:16, I did notice that I left out parts of it as I was typing, my bad sorry.
In regards to the wife beating, WHAT difference does it make if you beat her "lightly" no difference at all, and I will tell you that if a man ever raised his hand to me, he better not go to sleep at night, cuz a bug fat iron skillet would be coming across his head. If you women like being beat up on, thats your porogotive, but for me, better not anyone raise a finger towards me, I will defend myself. A beating is a beating. If it walks like a duck and looks like a duck, well then it must be a duck, IT IS WRONG PERIOD. Please tell me what justifies beating a woman. Nothing does, and you call your religion a religion of peace? Please, it sounds to me that your religion is full of hidious rituals made up by this so called prophet to fool you into thinking he was a chosen one, yea he was chosen alright, by Satan himself. What kind of God would want you to beat women? This makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. You poor women over there, I feel so sorry for you, that you cant even speak your mind or walk out of your house without covering your face up. If God created men and women, why on earth would he want them to cover thier faces? Pitiful simply pitiful. One day you will see, and soon, for everything is being fullfilled just as the bible has predicted.
Hehehe so u r a lady…i was still confused..hehe…Actually u see the problem lies in the understanding of this verse…NOWHERE is it said that beat her if u like…Anywyas i don’t like being beatenup and well ofcourse my hubby’ll have to pay for it if he raises his hand without any reason!!!
Secondly if he does anything to me without any valid reason my religion has allowed me to take ‘khula’ from him…Christian ladies cannot get a divorce even if they want to and can only get it if their husband assents to the idea…yeah i know courts have made it quite easier still ur religion doesnot profess women giving divorce…wheras muslim women are.
You are so concerned that Husbands can beat their wives in Islam…but ask how many muslim women are actually beaten up…rarely…But i can’t say much abt the western world…but as far as the Western media tells me…women are quite often beaten by their hubbies…ain’t u ppl going against ur religion? Well i won’t say that we are angels…their are incidents where a husband beats up his wife…But u know our religion tells us that whoeverhas done one atom’s weight of good…he/she will be rewarde for it and vice versa…So if any man beats up her wife…i guess Lord will see to it Himself.
as far as satan is concerned that is what Quran says abt him.
strange satan is saying all that for himself… i mean doesn’t he have any dignity
Enchanted, we do call Adam Gods son, as do we with all of Gods children, we are all his children, and in regards to the husband having a reason to beat his wife up, there are no reasons for this, it just should not happen period. Yes it is true that there are alot of wife beaters in the states, and yes this is against the christian religion but all people are not christians in the west, they do not devote themselves to Jesus, only to the ways of this world, you can label a religion on someone, but christianity is not a religion it is a way of life. And as far as the west goes, at least these women have the CHOICE to remove themselves from a violent situation, where as it SEEMS you do not have that choice since your religion allows it, wether it be moderate or not. I have seen the documentaries on Afghanistans (Taliban) treatment of women and it is not a pretty sight. I do not know about pakistan but in my eyes any beating light, heavy, or within good reason is abuse and will be greatly judged on that day to come, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Jesus loves you and one day you will understand why he took it upon himself to die for you on a cross and then come alive again after three days, in which 500 people saw him. It always amazes me how people will choose to believe in everything in the world, sun Gods, dung beetles, false prophets, but yet choose to refuse Jesus, a documented evidence about him, and I know what he has done for me personally, my whole life has been transformed, and yes I must admit I came here to tell others about him, not to get converted to Islam, maybe in your eyes you think this is wrong, but in my eyes I feel desperate for you, and the seed is planted and it is up to you to accept him into your heart or not, the bible says that this world as we know will not pass until the gospel has been preached to the entire world, and this is what is happening now, when you hear the trumphets blast please dont let it pass you by. In his love! me.
Sorry to keep posting multiple times enchanted but in response to the Lord taking care of the one who beats his wife, yes this is correct, but you are supporting a religion that supports the beatings. Do you understand what it is that I am trying to say?
Islam’s prophet, Muhammad, believed Jesus was the Messiah, Allah’s anointed messenger. Allah’s people are to listen to Allah’s messengers (Koran, IV.171; V. 111*).
The Prophet’s revelations about Jesus contained in the Koran should be read by his followers, as the Koran requires.
Muhammad, Islam’s Prophet, believed Jesus was sent by Allah to be the Messiah, miraculously born of the Virgin Mary. who brought the Gospel, who died, then ascended into heaven to be with Allah. Jesus would become an everlasting blessing to all mankind!
The Koran tells how Allah sent Jesus, through a virgin birth to be the Messiah - Savior of the world, nearly five hundred and fifty years before Muhammad was born..
As God’s messenger, Jesus explained, simplified, and demonstrated God’s will and message, although the Jews did not believe in him. Jesus’ “Good News” - the Gospel - is about God’s love and forgiveness for all mankind. Muhammad’s revelations recorded in the Koran/Qur’an tell that:
Jesus was sent by Allah, who supported him with the Holy Spirit, to tell the world Allah’s will (II, 87; V. 110-117*).
Allah gave Jesus, exalted him above all others, and supported him with the Holy Spirit as proof of his sovereignty (II, 253*).
Allah caused the miracle birth of John the Baptist to the aged Zechariah and his barren wife so John could be the messenger to announce Jesus as the Messiah (III, 33-41*).
Allah appointed Mary to be the virgin mother of Jesus, the Messiah (III, 42-45; XIX, 12-22; XXI, 90*).
Jesus would be righteous [sinless] all his life (III, 46; VI, 86; XIX, 19*).
Jesus would be raised from the dead (XIX, 33*).
Jesus, Messiah and son of Mary, crucified, appeared dead and was taken up my Allah himself (IV, 157,158*).
Jesus was a messenger of Allah, who is to be believed (IV, 171*).
Allah taught Jesus his religion and commanded Jesus to establish it (XLII, 12; XLIII, 63-65*).
Allah caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow [the prophets], gave him the Gospel, and placed compassion and mercy in the hearts of those who followed him (LVII, 27*)
.
11. Allah strengthened the group of Jews who believed Jesus and his message, so they overcame those who disbelieved (LXI, 14*).
The true message of Jesus and the prophets was perverted by religious leaders who were condemned by Allah (IX, 34*).
Long before The Prophet Muhammad, Allah revealed the Torah and the Gospel for mankind’s guidance (III, 3, 4*).
Allah taught Jesus the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel. Allah would do miracles through Jesus and make him a messenger to Israel (III 48, 49*).
Allah gathered Jesus and caused him to be resurrected and ascended to Allah himself (III, 55*).
Allah bestowed the Gospel on Jesus to be a light (V, 46*).
Observing the Torah and the Gospel brings nourishment from above (V, 66*).
Those who went astray from Allah’s commands were cursed by both David and Jesus (V, 78*).
Allah inspired Jesus’ Disciples to believe in Jesus and his message (V, 110*).
Jesus and his Disciples were Allah’s helpers (LXI, 14*).
Believe in all that was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received (II, 136*).
The Surrender, al-islam, is Islam and Muslims are to be surrendered to Allah’s will and guidance (III, 19*). [As revealed by Jesus.]
*(All citations listed are from THE MEANING OF THE GLORIOUS KORAN, translated by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall: A mentor Religious Classic, The New American Library, New York, New York, fifth printing, 1956.)
Because the Koran described Jesus, who ministered almost six hundred years before Muhammad, in the way it does, comparison of Jesus with Muhammad is necessary to understand the differences.
Compare:
Jesus was the Messiah who brought the Gospel - “Good News” to man as God’s messenger. As Messiah, he made it possible for all men to be saved from the Original Sin of separation from God. He freed all people from Torah restrictions.
Jesus opened the door to God. Those who pray to God are able to only because of what Jesus did for all mankind. For the first time in history, all humanity could, and can, pray directly to the one God, creator of all things. No Temple, priests, rules, dogmas, or liturgies are required for God to care about a person and hear one’s prayers. Before Jesus, no one had this privilege. Few people, and no Muslims, are aware this is a historical fact. Because of Jesus, Muslims, and all others can pray anytime, from anywhere!
That is the work of the Messiah did, and the message of his Gospel - the Good News - God sent to the world through Jesus. [16. Allah bestowed the Gospel on Jesus* to be a light (V, 46*)]. (*Not Muhammad, but Jesus.)
Jesus told the people that God loved them and would look after them, if they would submit to him. He said we could best understand God as Father, or better as Abba - “Daddy.” Jesus said God would never leave or forsake them, would always hear their prayers, and forgive them all their sins.
Jesus said God’ s earlier instructions (Old Covenant in the Torah) to the Jews were now changed into a different and a New Covenant. In the past, to please God one needed to obey and follow all 613 rules of the Torah. So, it had been necessary to be a Jew who was under the LAW - the Torah - to be one of God’s people.
Jesus said all a person had to do to inherit eternal life was to believe he was sent by Allah, was telling the truth, and had opened the doors of Heaven so humans could enter into the Kingdom of Heaven [presence of God] while on earth. Man no longer had to die to have at-one-ment, atonement, with God.
The idea of SURRENDER came with Jesus and was essential to Jesus’ New Covenant, God’s changed Covenant for all people. Submission to God’s will is an essential part of the Lord’s Prayer, Matthew 6:10. The willingness to surrender control of ones life’ hopes, ideas and desires to God is required. Surrendering is believing Jesus’ New Covenant message. This is asking God to do his will in all areas of one’s life, followed by a prayer sincerely offering one’s self to God to do with as God pleases.
Once this submission of self to God is seriously made, God puts his Holy Spirit in the person’s “heart” and mind. This act of God [Grace] is because of a person’s attitude; not because of particular acts, works, or doctrines. Then a person can actually feel the love God in his or her heart, and know for sure that God has accepted them because of their born again, Pentecostal experience.
The Prophet Muhammad, as recorded in the Koran, said he replaced Jesus as the final prophet. So Muhammad declared his revelations [the Koran] replaced the message God delivered through Jesus.
Muhammad’s replacement religion of Islam returned to many of the Jewish laws and customs, including food taboos. Islam is now a religious system of laws different from the free grace Jesus preached.
In Islam, man still must surrender to the will of Allah, but only to what is written in the Koran/Qur’an. The change from Jesus ’ concept of surrender to Muhammad’s concept is dramatic. A person’s surrender is now as slave to master, and no longer surrender because of the love of child to parent. Humans are no longer know as children of God. Islam calls them Allah’s slaves. Muslims must bow down to Allah five times a day in a slaves obeisance to him.
To Jesus, man’s duty is to love [agape] God with all one’s being and also to “love [agape] your neighbor as you love yourself.” Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to those who ask. That Spirit of God, by grace will “write the laws of God on your heart and mind,” by free grace and not by following any set of rules. Islam gives no provision for this personal face-to-face relationship with ABBA - Father, that Jesus offered his followers. Islam gives no promise of entry into Paradise for following the Koran/Qur’an, except for jihad warriors killed in combat.
Islam changes human duties to works - to obeying the Koran’s rules. The Koran teaches Allah is a merciful and forgiving God, but only for Muslims who obey Muhammad’s revelations written in the Koran/Qur’an. The Koran/Qur’an says God will viciously punish any who do not “believe” (the unbelievers or infidels) in Muhammad and his revelations.
The first of the five pillars of Islam is that a Muslim must believe the Koran is the word of God and Muhammad is his prophet.
In Islam, the gifts of God - Allah - now depend on following the Koran, instead on God’s love and free grace as a loving heavenly Abba/Father.
The equality of man [as neighbors] that God revealed through Jesus, is changed by the Koran. Muslims are superior to “infidels” - unbelievers. Men are superior to women (Koran 4, 34). Wives must be obedient servants of their husbands or be punished (Koran 4, 34). Wives are required to follow the husband’s will in the same manner Muslims are to follow Allah’s will . Click here for Muslim women information.
These are a few of the many changes Muhammad’s revelations make in God’s message earlier revealed through Jesus. The Koran and biographical information on Muhammad is on the Internet and in most libraries. Click here for Muhammad’s history.
A short course on Jesus can be found in the New Testament book of Matthew, chapters 1-10. An introduction to Jesus’ primary teachings is at God-101.org. that can be reached by clicking on the listing below. Full discussions of Jesus’ words and works are located in the “Gospels” of the New Testament - the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
The great differences between Jesus and Muhammad can easily be seen and understood when these foundation materials are studied. Islam is not a continuation of Jesus’ ministry, but contradicts Jesus completely. Jesus taught peace (Matthew 5:9, 38-48). The Qur’an teaches violence - jihad, (Koran/Qur’an 8,12; 9,5; 9,29; 9,73; 47,4; etc.).
Islam avoids confronting these contradictions by asserting all of the Bible is false and does not contain any reliable information on Jesus. Because of this unsupported myth, Islam-101 lists only what the Koran/Qur’an declares about Jesus. Bible statements are not used.
Muslims believe the Koran was written by God and is God’s message to all people. If Jesus is what the Koran affirms he is/was, it is impossible for Muhammad to replace him. There can be only one Messiah. Jesus did the Messiah’s work (opening heaven) 550 years before Islam’s Prophet was born.
there is no reason to beat up a wife…i am with u in that case.
But u see actually this verse was revealed in the time when ppl didn’t believe in sex bounded by the holy bond of matrimony…there was adultry and fornication prevelant. AS is the case today.
This deals with those women who are guilty of having extra martial relationship with other men. Now as said in this verse that MEN are the care takers of the women…that means MEN are responsible for whatever goes on in HIS household…be it his wife or his children…many feminists would say that this is another way of snatching the freedom of women…i guess it relieves women of many responsibilities…NOw if the husband is loyal with the wife and loves her…he would explain to her first that she shouldn’t be doing what she is doing…secondly ofcourse is the option of seperation…now third comes beating… but this stage rarely comes because either the husband divorces his wife or the wife takes it…the most sensible option. But in Islam the punishment of Adultry is very great…and if u don’t get it here…there is no reason to believe that u’ll be exempted because Allah will see to it on the day of judgement. period.
Now as to men who commit this crime…the safest way for a woman is to take khula(women taking devorce)…now u’ll say why can’t she beat her hubby…i mean commensense speaks…men are stronger than woman. And of course she can appeal to the shariah court so that her husband gets 100 lashes.
I would again suggest that u read my post on “status of women in islam” it is a very comprehensive article and u will get a good idea of how much women are honoured in Islam.
As our Prophet said:
** paradise lies under the feet of mothers**
okay if u don’t find that thread i’ll give u the link…please i request do read it thoroughly before making any assumptions. Thank You. http://www.jamiat.org.za/isinfo/ewomen.html
i request again…don’t make any assumptions without reading it thoroughly.
and yeah who is refusing jesus…i believe i am following the path described by him…i don’t know why christians don’t want to believe it but many things are common between us.
As far as talibans or afghanis are concerned…they don’t know what real islam speaks about…my cousins and an uncle went there…and they told us that nothing in their way of governance is like islamic law. They were trying to enforce themselves on ppl…who were dying and see what Allah Did with them…And if i may be allowed to say afghanis are not very gr8 muslims either…before the soviet invasion…all the anti islamic things like raping and looting…and fornication had become prevelant there. Allah doesnot show his anger on anybody without reason…and i firmly believe in it. But still because we are one ummah i pray for them that they may correct themselves and pray to allah for their aliviation.
In pakistan too there are cases of such things..but i’ve also seen with my own eyes what Allah did to them…and they deserved it. And i have also seen how Allah helps those and guides those who have firm belief in him and lead their life according to injuctions laid out by him.
Now u r supporting ur beliefs by citing Quran…one good step.
As i said before i believe in Jesus and what he told us…it is true that Allah will never foressake those who submit to him…and i seriously don’t think that i bow before satan five times a day and praise Allah and ask for Allah’s help in my prayer
Okay has Christianity laid down all the laws? concerning everything…no. All laws practiced in west are man made laws…but Quran gives us divine laws…and also tells us the laws by which ppl are going to be punished on the day of judgement.
Islam is a complete code of life…it tells u how to eat ur food…what to eat what not to eat…what to wear what not to wear…how to adress elders…how to address childre…what to say when u meet someone…we say **Assalam-o-alikum/] (May peace be upon u.)…it tells u how to treat ur parents…instead of leaving them in old-houses, it tells us that it is our duty to look after our parents when they grow old…it tells us the rights and duties of Men, women, parents, daughters, sons, neighbours, friends realtives, muslims at large, orphans, widows, poor…and the list is very long.
In islam every topic is dealt in deep detail i am sorry but i don’t find the same thing in christianity.
Ask me any question any question at all…be it abt any subject i’ll give u an answer how islam deals with it…but in west religion christianity is confined to church and a few good deeds… a few trust by god fearing ppl…and the laws and the rights and duties given to man are all man-made…but in islam we still follow the shariah (islamic law) and try to enforce it in our lives…and it is my personal experience that from the time i have started doing it …Allah helps me in everything i do…my prayers are now, with the grace of Allah, are accepted very soon. BUT FOR THAT u have to believe that ALLAH HAS ALL POWERS AND NOBODY SHARES THEM.
enchanted, thank you very much for your respones, and indeed you are a wise one. who comes in peace. Now about the laws, you say you follow the laws of the Quran, and that the west follows the law of man, you are correct and if the west as a whole does not wake up and smell the roses, it will be object to Gods wrath, however as a christian we have laws also, these are the laws set forth by Moses called the ten commandments. I personally follow the laws of God and not of man, and see satan is the god of this world, and until you get into the spiritual realm of Gods world, you will continue to be influenced by the god of this world. This is where the HOLY SPIRIT comes in and is described as follows.
Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit after leaving Earth. Events on the day of Pentecost, and continually since, prove the promise was kept. Without this actual confirmation of Jesus' promise, he would drop out of history as another false prophet. This promise is on the list below Its first fulfillment on Pentecost is at Following is a list of New Testament scripture about the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 3:11,12; Mark 1:7,8; Luke 3:15-17. John the Baptist announces Jesus' ministry and purpose.
Matthew 3:13-17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-23. Jesus' baptism with water was unnecessary. He did it to "fulfill all righteousness" and visibly received the Holy Spirit.
Luke 1:26-38 (esp. 34,35). Jesus fathered by the Holy Spirit, and of the Holy Spirit, but baptized with the Holy Spirit after John's baptism.
Matthew 4:1; Mark 1:12; Luke 4:1. Jesus led by Holy Spirit.
John 1:19-34 (esp. 32-34). John the Baptist affirms Jesus' baptism with the Holy Spirit.
John 2:23-3:15 (esp. 3:1-9). Jesus teaches a spiritual rebirth is necessary.
John 3:22-36 (esp. 34,35). John affirms that Jesus had the Holy Spirit without measure.
Luke 12:10. Disbelief of the Holy Spirit is sin.
Luke 12:11,12. The Holy Spirit is our teacher who removes anxiety.
John 7:37-39, 14:15-17. Jesus promises the Holy Spirit, "living water" from his heart, "the Spirit of Truth."
John 14:18-31 (esp. 23,25,26). Jesus promises the Holy Spirit (Counselor) after he "leaves." The Holy Spirit will live in the believer.
John 15:26,27. The Holy Spirit's coming will witness to Jesus (because the Spirit comes as Jesus promised).
John 16:7. Jesus again confirms he must "go" before the Holy Spirit will come to his followers.
John 16:8-11. The Holy Spirit will convince of sin, righteousness, and judgment.
John 16:13. The Holy Spirit is to teach, guide, speak, reveal, and to glorify Jesus.
Luke 24:44-49, Acts 1:4-5. Jesus summarizes his mission and instructs followers to stay in Jerusalem to receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 1:6-8. The Holy Spirit will give the necessary power to fulfill the Apostolic mission - telling the good news about God. Proof of Jesus' position as Messiah continues in each age. The Holy Spirit comes to those who ask, just as Jesus promised (Item 11).
Acts 2:1-4. Pentecost (Feast of Weeks, fifty days after Passover), the Holy Spirit falls on 120(?), (Acts 1:15; 2:1) like the wind, Acts 2:2 (Genesis 1:2) and Acts 2:3, like tongues of fire (Item 1).
Acts 2:4-13. When baptized with the Holy Spirit, Jesus' followers spoke in other languages "as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance."
Acts 2:13. Those baptized with the Holy Spirit appeared to be drunk.
Acts 2:14-41. The Holy Spirit emboldened Peter and led him through the first Christian sermon. Peter also gave the first Christian "altar call" and about 3,000 were baptized into fellowship (the "ekklesia").
Acts 2:38,39. Peter promises the Holy Spirit to all after forgiveness and baptism.
Acts 2:43. The Apostles began to have a miracle ministry as did Jesus, resulting from the Holy Spirit's works (Acts 19:11,12).
Acts 4:1-22. Peter and John healed and preached through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 4:23-31. The Holy Spirit gave preaching boldness and effectiveness.
Acts 8:14-24; 10:30-48 (esp. 10:44). The Holy Spirit is given to those who hear about him and truly yearn to be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Acts 9:1-19. Paul struck down on the road to Damascus, received the Holy Spirit through Ananias, and could then bear witness to Jesus as Christ (Acts 9:20).
Acts 19:1-7. The Holy Spirit baptism is more than, and different from, water baptism. Paul laid hands on some who were water baptized, but not Spirit baptized. Then the Holy Spirit came upon them.
Ephesians 5:15-20. Paul commands us to be filled with the Holy Spirit and not with alcohol spirits.
1 Corinthians 12:1-31 (esp. 4-11). Paul lists spiritual gifts we can expect from the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 5:16-24 (esp. 22,23). Paul lists the fruit of the Spirit - the new nature of a person who is baptized by the Holy Spirit.
Luke 11:9-13. Jesus promises the Holy Spirit will be given to any who ask for it.
1 Corinthians 14:1-37 (esp. 39,40). Paul teaches about orderly use of the Spirit's gifts.
1 Thessalonians 5:16-22. Paul teaches the Holy Spirit should never be "quenched," but always tested for validity.
To receive the Holy Spirit, read God 101 and believe item 32 above. Do not be surprised at any expression of God's power you may experience. Do not be surprised if you speak in an unknown language (tongue).
BTW, I have already read the post on women in Islam. There is improvement, but you folks got a ways to go to reach equality. In christianity the man is the head of the household also, which means he makes the desisions in regards to chritianity. Other than that, all other things are equal. One question I have for you is what are the percentages of women who get sole custody of thier children if they were to recieve a divorce from thier husband in Pakistan?