Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
I would rather want a world wide union of all Islamic states, that is much more beneficial to Pakistan. Just imagine you can go to or trade openly with Turkey, or Malaysia or ....
Another romantic idea. It is not going to happen either.
First try fixing our own country before talking of unions and marriages. An advice.
PAKISTAN is your country. Islam is not.
Trade ties can be established without removing borders.
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
It is not possible. I know you are being romantic, but such a scenario will be Indian government's security nightmare. Unresolvable issues like Kashmir can be resolved by far less efforts. aazmaaish shart he.
what's so romantic about a south asian union similar to europe's model?
i never said it's possible now.something like that now is completely unthinkable. maybe after 60 yrs or so. European countries fought two world wars against each other and several smaller wars before that to get to where they are now.
do you think any of those countries in the 1940s, Germany, France, England,etc even thought for a second that after 70 yrs EU would happen....? not even in their wildest dreams probably.
btw, i've always loved maz jobrani and ahmed ahmed they're my most fav middle eastern american comedians.
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
a few members seem to think it's some big favor pakistan would be doing for India.........
there are no positives of such thing for Pakistan or for the whole region as a whole?
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
One can only talk about foreseeable future. Not about 100 or 1000 years from now. Who knows if even India itself will remain one country up to that time?
Like I said, visa-less borders will be a national security disaster for India. They attacked India WHILE India is a separate entity. The fanatics half-heartedly kill Muslim Pakistanis, but they will do it to Hindus enthusiastically. And it will be wrong to presume that somehow they will disappear. Such fanatics have been among Muslims since day 1, and they have continued their existence up to this day.
And if you have any delusions about Muslims willing to live with India then just take a look at Kashmiri struggle for independence, and Bangladesh's decision to stay a separate country instead of joining India.
If you really want your dream to come true than why not start from far smaller Hindu/Buddhist countries like Nepal, Bhutan, and Sri lanka?
Have a nice day.
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
J&K issue is something that takes a lot of research and understanding right from the beginning of it 63 yrs ago, there were mistakes that were made by all sides and both countries contributed to the mess that it's in now.
if you actually understand the issue from the beginning of it you'll see what a complicated issue it's really become and how many events and corrupted actions lead up to what it's become now.
before you talk about muslims not wanting to live with india, think about all those indian muslims that are indians as well and those that have sacrificed their lives for their country. the highest indian military honor is also held by abdul hamid an indian muslim. there are anti nationals in every community
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
what would happen if another ajmal was to break loose and do what happened in mumbai all over again. would a nuke war happen. it's a scary thought
SAU is not really a dream of mine, i just thought we could discuss it, the countries of south asia are stuck with each other no matter what, so they might as well build each other up rather than how it has been for the past 60 some odd years.
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
Indian currency is accepted widely in Nepal. Also getting Nepalese visa not that difficult. Travelling to Bhutan we don't even require to get a Visa.
So yes, a SAU is very likely with India, Nepal and Bhutan.
The problem with Bangladesh and Pakistan for India is National security.
Srilanka on the other hand would not be comfortable with unrestricted flow of people from India to Sri lanka due to LTTE issue.
Having Afganishtan in such a Union is out of question.
Therefore, all in all an unrestricted flow of human capital is not possible with the current situation but removing trade barriers is possible like the newly elected east European countries in the EU.
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
Why so much hatred for Afghanistan. Afghans have excellent opinion of New Delhi. So they can also join in this hypothetical SAU. However for some strange reason Afghans seem to do not think very highly of Pakistan. Here's the report for this year's BBC Poll:
news(dot)bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/11_01_10_afghanpoll.pdf
Manisha said:
[QUOTE]
so they might as well build each other up rather than how it has been for the past 60 some odd years.
[/QUOTE]
Both these nations are dynamic and are have changed significantly over the last 60 years. In India's case, you can see considerable changes have taken place since 1992 economic liberalization.
My understanding of Pakistan is based on reading Pakistani media and participating in Pak forums. If I am wrong somebody please correct me.
In Pakistan there is a informal,* de facto* power sharing arrangement between the Military and the Feudal Elite. By military I do not mean the soldiers but the corps commanders. They control the Fauji Foundation which is a huge business corporation. By Feudal Elite I refer to few dozen families who own the majority of (Non military) land and industries.
On the other hand, there is a huge majority of dispossessed masses. In such a system plagued with contradictions, the Military-Feudal Complex has created a series of institutions which allow them to fool the masses and enrich their offshore banking accounts. Some of these are:
Maulanas: They encourage the masses to worry more about the afterlife,rather than this life. They try to impose a literal interpretation of Qur'an. The masses, who are uneducated, often heed their advice under fear of Allah's wrath. Soon after the Pakistani Independence they were used by the Feudal Elite to declare worker's strikes and land redistribution ( both of which would have benefitted the poor) as Unislamic. Here are the links:
www(dot)dawn.com/weekly/encounter/20060909/encounter2.htm
jang(dot)com.pk/thenews/jun2007-weekly/citypulse-04-06-2007/index.htm#1
Politicians: Politicians often come from the Feudal Elite ( Bhutto family, Sharif family both have huge estates). They pursued the policies which were favorable to the tiny Elite, rather that to the poor. To deflect the attention of the poor, they often used anti India and Kashmir rhetoric. Huge fraction of Financial Budget was assigned to the Defense because of their scare mongering, when in fact it was the Pakistani Military which started 4 wars with India. ( I can discuss this in separate thread, if anybody objects.). Recently we see a black comedy unfolding, where on one hand the state of public education is atrocious, but there is a requirement for those standing for public office to have a graduate degree.
Media: A large section of Media often acts as pawn of Military Establishment and Feudals. Recently Pakistan was suffering from twin whammies of devastating floods and Karachi violence, the Media chose to focus on the Shoe Saga. Another black comedy ..
The point of this rather long rant was to highlight the fact that Pakistan is not stuck in a rut because of its rivalry with India, but rather because of Military-Feudal Complex. Rivalry is just a symptom, the disease is the MFC. Once these entrenched interests are torn out, and liberal progressive Pakistanis have the power ( who are presently powerless), Pakistan will progress, and SAU will be a natural consequence.
Until then Peace will be a mirage and SAU a fool's errand. After all, It takes two to tango.
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
^that's the complicated unsolvable issue i was talking about
Well there is nothing "COMPLICATED" and "UNSOLVABLE" to Kashmir issue, fact of the matter is that, it is quite simple ----- INDIAN THAGS (OF COURSE IN UNIFORMS NOW A DAYS) not only need to leave Kashmir but also acknowledge their(Kashmiris) GOD GIVEN RIGHT to PLEBICITE ----- let people of Kashmir either determine their autonomy or affiliation with which ever country they(Kashmiris) choose to ----- or let them go independent if they wish to ----- SIMPLE ----- VERY SIMPLE INDEED.
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
plebiscite was only possible in the 40s, the deal breaker was that pakistan has changed the demographics of AJK from how it was in the 1940s, India has not changed anything in J&k in terms of demographics, it's exactly how it was in the 1940s when all those promises of plebiscite were made, hence the "complications" began as yrs went by and hopefully the victims of corrupt practices get justice
the thousands of soldiers stationed there aren't allowed to vote anyways
kashmiri muslims don't speak for all of J&K, they only belong to the tiny region of the kashmir valley, there are the big regions of Jammu and Ladakh too but who cares for the other groups of J&K, the corrupted politicians of the valley just have to keep messing around with the people there. corruption is rampant in J&K like the rest of south asia.
bull i think the countries are stuck with each other, i think it was a totally nonsensical thread topic to start
anyways, i'm going to ask the mods to delete it
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
I like the Afghanis. They're cute people.
@ topic, it certainly is. We are only limited by our minds.
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
unity word dosent matched with asians specially Indo/Pak, they both need unite in inland first.
khamkawa
bander ke hath main adrak kiyon pakda rahe ho:D:
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
Its never gonna happen. Why? Our army Inc usurps 30+% of the budget and the only way they can do that is keep the india boogy alive. army Inc has nothing to gain and everything to lose.
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
Manisha said:
Oh India has. It has allowed Kashmiri Pandits to be chucked out from the valley region. The term “AJK” is a sad irony, a short form of “Azad Kashmir”. Azad means “Free”. Lookup “Kashmir” in this and in the original report here. Nit picking aside you are surprisingly well informed abt these issues for an American, even one of “South Asian” bent.
And the majority of them are there to prevent the nightmare scenario of a joint Sino Pak attack.
Please don’t. Discussing these issues allows us to clear the muddied waters.
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
Indians just wont admit the Kashmir issue, then how can there be unity.
Kashmir has 85% Muslim majority. Give them their right to decide.
If like @Manisha25 said that the Muslim part is very tiny, then why is India hesitant on organizing a referendum there ?
Surely the minority Muslims will be outvoted by the majority.
Unless it is a lie !
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
there should be some mutual agreement between all the stakeholders in kashmir its vry complex
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
Of course there is a Kashmir "issue". Nobody is evading this fact. But we think its a administrative/economic national issue. You think it is a political/religious international issue. There in lies the rub. As regards the referendum, maybe Pakistan should lead the way and unilaterally hold a UN supervised plebiscite in the territory under its control ? What is stopping it ?
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
Indians just wont admit the Kashmir issue, then how can there be unity. Kashmir has 85% Muslim majority. Give them their right to decide.
If like @Manisha25 said that the Muslim part is very tiny, then why is India hesitant on organizing a referendum there ? Surely the minority Muslims will be outvoted by the majority.
Unless it is a lie !
why can't you see that demographics have been changed in AJK? is it fair to the indian side of J&K to hold a plebiscite now after that? nobody from other parts of India can live in j&k are pakistanis from other parts allowed to live in ajk?i'm pretty sure they are and how many times has that happened since the 1940 do you think?
the thing is that not everybody sees everything from a religious point of view like you. you guys keep saying it's a very very simple issue totally based on religion but with all the different ethnic groups and every individual having a different viewpoint and experiences they wouldn't vote entirely on religion like you think.
remember the commotion in the Jammu region that was a reaction to what happened in KV(kashmir valley) regarding the Amarnath land issue a while back? the muslims of the Jammu region were by the side of the hindu/sikhs/christians as well as the other ethnic groups there protesting along with them
@Dronacharya, the J&K issue has been very close to me so it's something i've studied for a couple yrs now
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
no, its not possible
Re: Is a South Asian Union like the European Union Possible?
^why? is "Unity" a foreign word or something for south asians?