Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
What a surprise, Lajawab doesn’t believe that 6 million Jews died.
It actually fits it with all your other parochial and uninformed points. You never disapoint.
Great source btw, it is so unbiased and scientific!
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
The Iranian president’s support for Holocaust denial is a measure of how far the infection of Jew-hatred has spread
Jonathan Freedland
Wednesday December 14, 2005
The Guardian
There were few memorable moments in the election campaign of 2005, but there’s one I won’t forget. It came when I was interviewing a group of Muslim voters in Edinburgh, asking how the Iraq war had unsettled their political allegiances. One older man began telling me that he did not blame Tony Blair or even George Bush for the way things had turned out, because they were mere dupes of a more powerful force. The calamity of 9/11 was not all it seemed: the authors of that event were not the 19 hijackers, but more shadowy players, unknown even to Bush. Later, as he gave me a lift to the station, I asked who these secret powers might be. The answer was “rich Jewish people”.
I told him that just as there were plenty of lies told about Muslims, so there were lies told about Jews - and that neither of us should accept either. I put the comments to one side, dismissing them as the ramblings of one man.
Again and again in recent years, I’ve made the same move. I’ve read the reports of sermons in the Arab world, denouncing Judaism and Jews, and tried to see a wider context.
So I saw the vox pop on Saudi TV asking people on the street whether they would ever shake hands with a Jew - unanimous answer: no - and guessed that perhaps this was an exceptional item, hardly indicative. I read the transcript of an interview with Basmallah, a three-year-old girl, again aired on Saudi TV, who was introduced as a “Muslim girl, a true Muslim”. Here’s the exchange:
Host: Basmallah, do you know the Jews?
Basmallah: Yes.
Host: Do you like them?
Basmallah: No.
Host: Why don’t you like them?
Basmallah: Because they are apes and pigs.
I shuddered to read such a thing. But it was translated and distributed by the Middle East Media Research Institute, and, like others, I wondered about the group’s motives: Memri was founded by a veteran of Israeli military intelligence. (On the other hand, few challenge the accuracy of Memri’s translations: unpalatable though they are, the texts Memri finds are all too real.)
Such has been my standard operating procedure, constantly trying to see if there’s a way to contextualise these incidents, to see them in proportion. My motivation was not complicated: I prefer my Jewish identity to be positive, rather than defined by a perennial defence against anti-semitism.
But everyone has their limits and last week I reached mine. On Thursday the president of Iran chose to stand with the cranks, neo-fascists and racists who deny the factual truth of the Holocaust.
“Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces,” said Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. “Although we don’t accept this claim…”
Suddenly, the usual apologetics won’t work. No one can say Iran’s president was really complaining about Israel or Zionism, rather than Jews. No one can say he was talking about the west’s colonial crimes. He was peddling, instead, one of the defining tropes of the racist hard right: Holocaust denial. It is a stance that seeks to deny Jews their history, their suffering, almost their very being. Like denying that African-Americans were ever slaves, it is a move made by those who wish only harm.
In this light, Ahmadinejad’s previous musings look rather different. When, in October, he stood beneath a banner that promised “A world without Zionism” and called for Israel to be “wiped off the map”, many Jews felt a chill at what seemed an annihilationist fantasy. Cooler heads said no, this was merely the hyperbolic style of the region, deployed to press a robust anti-Zionist rather than anti-semitic case. What he wanted, they explained patiently, was a world without Zionism, not a world without Jews.
Well, now I’m done with the charitable explanations.** A man who refuses to believe the historic truth is capable of anything. This is not an Arabic cable TV station or an obscure Egyptian newspaper. This is a head of government, the leader of a nation of 70 million - a country that aspires to lead the Muslim world. And, lest we forget, Iran has nuclear ambitions. So now it’s not paranoid to worry about a president with annihilationist dreams - it’s smart. **
Unfortunately, it doesn’t end with Ahmadinejad, a man with no experience outside Iran, a hick who, Iranian analyst Dr Ali Ansari concedes, is a “monumental embarrassment”. For he has given voice to a sentiment that runs deep in Iran and in the wider Muslim world.
Just look at this week’s Iranian press. “Many revisionist historians believe the story of the Holocaust is fake and have proved it by much evidence and documents,” says the conservative paper Resalat. Hardline Siyasat-e Ruz applauds the leader for “revealing the truth”.
It’s hardly a surprise. TV stations across the Muslim world have been running this garbage for ages, along with lurid anti-semitism. Jordanian TV’s Ramadan special this year was Al-Shatat, a Syrian-produced series that speaks of a “global Jewish government” and depicts the ancient blood libel: the accusation that Jews use the blood of Christian children in preparing food for Passover. That was a follow-up to Egyptian television’s Ramadan treat in 2002: Horseman without a Horse, whose central theme was the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the century-old forgery concocted by the Tsarist secret police which alleged a Jewish plot to take over the world.
We can deny it no longer: the virus of anti-semitism has infected the Muslim world. And virus it is, for Jew-hatred on this scale, as Christian Europe can testify, is a kind of sickness. This is one of the grossest legacies bequeathed by the west: that Muslims have taken to heart a form of anti-semitism alien to their own lands, borrowing a language and iconography that was made in Christendom. Blood libels and the Protocols were dreamed up in Norwich, Mainz or Moscow - yet now they breathe anew in Cairo, Riyadh and Damascus.
This represents a menace to Jews, of course, but also a tragedy for Muslims. Theirs is a tradition that historically valued learning, and when an ignoramus like Ahmadinejad denies the overwhelming weight of historical evidence he makes a mockery of that tradition. In a period Jews still look back on as a golden age, Muslims were the people of scholarship, of science, of tolerance and coexistence - a contrast with the Crusader barbarians. Yet now many lap up the myths and lies that were once fed to the peasants of Europe, lies which endured through to the last century - and which led all the way to Treblinka. Today’s Muslims should want no part of such ignorance or bigotry. It demeans them. So Azzam Tamimi of the Muslim Association of Britain is to be applauded for his implicit condemnation of Ahmadinejad at the Stop the War conference at the weekend, telling his audience that, whatever their views, they could not deny the fact of the Holocaust. Now the Muslim Council of Britain should follow his lead, and that of the Muslim Public Affairs Council in the US, which also condemned this preacher of hate. And those non-Muslim progressives who have made alliances with Islamists should do the same. It may mean some uncomfortable conversations - but the days of denial must end.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1666871,00.html
About right.
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a 'myth'
Forget the research...Look at the numbers...Do they really add up? Squatter states aside, UN rules aside, venturing and threatening to attack other countries aside, the propaganda of the state of Israel has you and other Americans by the ring in your noses...
The media tells you Israel has a right to stay, so you parrot what the media says...You are Americans and Americans by nature are simpletons...They just follow popular opinion coz' their opinion is very weak...
The media tells you what to say, what to hear and what to believe...Do you really think Israel is such an innocent country without blemishes that it deserves the right to stay? Many renowned people have already declared Israel as a sore on the face of the world...Except Americans...Why?
Because of popular opinion and media...The media also tells you you are beloved and honoured amongst the masses of the world...
You come to GS and see and read something else, your image and media induced facade is scratched, then you strike out with the same things that you hear on CNN and FOX...
Ever tried thinking for your own selves what's happening outside of what you are told? Yet, someone tells you, you become defensive and start parroting the media...
There is a simple word for it...Indoctrination...And that is what your media feeds you and lap it up like it's the truth...
Try saying something from the heart...It may not be full of stats and figures, but it does wonders for the spirit...Might even revive yours...
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
hahha so u agree the Holocaust Industry and the ignorant Sunni Mullahs are at the same footing?
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
Simpletons? What’s Pakistan’s literacy rate Lajawab?
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a 'myth'
Lajawab, you stereotype and insult groups of people far more than the people you accuse of doing the same thing. You parrot ignorant mullahs while accusing others of parroting Fox. You are indoctrinated with a belief system of self righteousness and hatred whlie preaching as if you are some wise holy man. Have YOU ever tried to think for yourself? If you did you would realize that the country and people that you so hypocritically suckle off don't want you here any more than you apparently want to be here.
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
wait a minute.. just a second ago it was Muslims .. and now it’s Neo Nazis too!! hahaha that’s what happens when you are a lame debator.
Stick to your assertions.. show me Muslim scholars who challenged the holocaust .. point me to their research per your claim.
The Muslims aren’t the only ones in the world pointing towards “Zionists” for the problems of this world. Yes “Zionists” not “Jews”.. there are Jews against Zionism as well so let’s not use Jews as scapegoats.
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
Abbay bhai agar sodi arbee ko pata chalta to batate na! 
Man if you read how israel has used cunning spying / deception in their wars and use camel jockey araby in the same accent as the camel jockey themselves, you will with shock!!!
Israel was able to divert 50,000 egyptian soldiers in the desert (they died?? as USAF was planning a mercy drop but McNamara stopped it at the last moment). They have instances where egyptian pilots in '67 war thought they were being told to eject by their GCC but actually they were israeli arab transmissions!
Personally speaking, I don’t think an attack on Iran is happening since as I said before (maybe not in this forum) that terrorists (US, Israel) don’t mess with other equal terrorists (Iran). See even in gang warfare they fight but usually when things settle, if 2 gangs are of equal size they usually don’t intrude on the other’s strongholds that much.
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
Please do forgive my polemic skills, I fear they are far below yours as are my didactic abilities. I should have known to include the original persecutors in my list of the enlightened personalities.
As for having to show Muslim scholars, one only needs to look at Muslims leaders..why search further?
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
Take me out of the picture and use the world (The one outside the USA) opinion…Does the whole world have the same opinion as that of Americans? If you believe that, then surely you are stricken with a serious case of vanity and misconception…
As for me being here and being critical of the USA, I have every right…If you believe I don’t have that right, then I suggest you write to the government and have them tear up the US constitution which Americans pride themselves so much on…
Being critical of one’s nation is not being hypocritical FYI…Isn’t that why Saddam was supposedly removed? Because he couldn;t stand people being critical of their country? If he or any other Muslim had said the same thing you say about me, they would be termed as intolerant…Yet, you wish that I should leave USA because I am critical of its policies and actions…
Tell me more about hypocrisy, Seminole?
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
Literacy? As I recall, the wisest men on earth didn’t hold a degree in anything…It was their ability to judge right and wrong based on their conscience that brought them into the history books…
As long as the media is there to appease your conscience with words like good, evil, justice, freedom and liberty, it wouldn;t matter to the average American if the entire world was nuked by their government…Even their conscience is guided by the media…
Do you honestly think, provided that the Holohoax was in actuality a reality, that every Nazi soldier who put a Jew in the incineration chamber to be a blood thirsty, raving psychopath?
Obviously not…But being given enough reason and clause to think so by the propaganda, the German folk, who were good and honest, were indoctrinated into believing that the extermination of the Jews was for the benefit of the world and the Fatherland as a whole…And they were at the time most literate of all people on earth…
No doubt in your mind attacking Iraq, Afghanistan and supporting Israel are all for the betterment of humanity…But there are those who think and know otherwise and know that what’s going on is another Nazi style empire in the making…
By supporting the acts, policies and crimes of America, you are becoming another good, honest and hard working American indoctrinated into believing that what your nation is doing is right…
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a 'myth'
Yes Iraq & Afghanistan were bringing so much to the world weren't they? Taliban rule that shoved Islamic traits to people through swords and beheadings. And in Iraq a dictator who had the blood of hundreds of thousands on his hands. How low you have fallen that these are the people you look up to?
Taliban and Saddam your martyrs now? How sad.
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a 'myth'
^^
Like I said, based on what you have been indoctrinated for, it gives the Americans the right to senselessly, mercilessly and indiscriminately kill thousands and thousands of innocent men, women and children in the name of justice, liberty and freedom...And yet feel good about it...
Sad...I now truly understand that every wehrmacht, gestapo and SS men of the third reich were truly innocent and above malice...They just felt they were truly doing good for the nation and for the world...
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
That is why your favorite leader Al-Hitloor exploded in his bunker. I guess it has to do with the prefix “Al”. As soon as you add the prefix, people develop suicidal tendencies.
Best regards
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
I wish you leave the USA because you hate everything it stands for - its people, history and ideals. You represent everything the US is against. Criticism and dissent are fine - even admirable in a free society. I personally find the current admistration an abomination. But I love this country and what it stands for, while you despise it and advoate things that go against the ideals and Constitution of the US. So please to to a country where Islamic law and self righteousness rule where you will obviously be more comfortable. Your ideals totally contradict what this country stands for. Why the hell are you here? Why I am against most of the policies of the current administration, I would fight to the death before it ever became what you want it to be.
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
^^
Hate today for most Americanists is pointing out their faults, critcising them, dissenting with them…All part and parcel of what you claim to uphold: Freedom of speech.
Every critical remark I make is hate to you, every pointing out something that I don;t agree with is hate to you, my being different is hate to you, my faith is hate to you, my words, my dissent, my unapproval…All hate to you…
Is it any wonder you wish to see me go? In the words of Jack Nicholson: “You can’t handle the truth…!” So, the next best alternative is to tell me to leave…Either agree with us, our lifestyle, our culture, our way of life and our indicriminate killings of innocents around the world, or leave…
Your wishing me to leave is kind of funny seeing how this is a land of immigrants probably what your own ancestors were...
This guy reminds me of you...
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Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a 'myth'
Immigrants came to this great country because they loved the ideals it stands for. You don't.
"The truth" as you see it is "ignorance" to me.
I can handle the truth, I just can't handle someone living in this country that is against everything it stands for. For instance, I wouldn't live in Pakistan if I thought Pakistanis were an immoral, stupid people. How could I move ton a country if I thought all their policies past and present were evil? You pretend to criticize the hypocrisy of the US based on its Bill of Rights and Constitution, yet you advocate Talibanesque governments and worship bin Laden who would burn those documents and push off a cliff anyone who had them hidden under their mattress.
How dare you use American ideals such as Freedom of Speech to criticize others when you advocate Islamic facism where Freedom of Speech would get you killed.
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
Hey Semi, Lajwab has a point. Maulana’s whole life is a myth, why to bother about this holocaust in some distant lands. Ask Iranians how Sunnis and Balochis are being oppressed in Iran and they will say it is all a myth. And that area my friend, is literally under Iranian burqa.
“”"-------------
Recent examples of the Iranian government’s brutal and discriminatory policies towards the Baloch nation include the following events; In July 2005 the Islamic regime destroyed thousand of Baloch people’s homes in a large area in Chahbhar,
“”“”"---------------
In September 2005 a Baloch man identified as Houshang Baameri was hanged [publicaly, I mean in the open for everyone to see] at a Saturday morning in the city of Pahrah (Iranshahr), accused of killing two Para-military security agents in the area, and later that same month the new government of Mr. Ahmadinejad appointed the Shi’a extremist, Mr. Habibulah Dahmarde, who was widely known for his anti-Baloch and extremist religious views, during his time as principal of the Balochistan University.
“”“”“”“”------------
http://www.unpo.org/news_detail.php?arg=66&par=3221
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
The persecution of Communists, the witch trials, the burning at the stakes for heresy, gay bashing and killing, inhumane and immoral slavery, lynching of the blacks and most recently the Guantanamo bay detainess held for no crime, thousands of people in jails even today who have no crime in their history detained on suspicion (your fears) e.t.c.
Yes…Great ideals to look to forward to…
Your quoted senence above is a hallmark of every average American’s thinking…Just spew what has been taught by the media and take it as truth. Never make an effort to learn what the truth is…‘Durn Moslems…Nuke the whole lot of them…’
Well, no one is going to teach you unless you take it upon yourself to be enlightened and see what the other side has to say and offer…Not from what the media indoctrinates you for but what is learnt from others themselves…
It is said that a leader’s intellect and beliefs are taken up by his followers…When you have a leader that professes ‘you’re with us or against us’, is it any wonder that Americans don’t even know half of what’s going on outside their country? Except what the media tells them to believe…
Then Americans wonder why they are considered dumb around the world…
I’ve told you before and I’ll say it again…Average Americans are good, honest and hard working people but simpletons by nature…It is easy to fool them because they are trusting…For that the media and a few unscrupulous people take full advantage of this fact…
I have never had any qualms with any American and never wish them harm…However, the direction your government is taking you is a path to destruction for its people and the nation itself…Mind my words…
Re: Iran leader: Holocaust a ‘myth’
You are free to be a communist in the U.S.
You are free to be a witch in the U.S.
You are not legally allowed to harm someone because they are homosexuals in the U.S.
Blacks are equal in the U.S. and the government nor business may not discriminate against someone because of their race.
The Guantanamo bay situation is now before the Supreme Court.
You see Lajawab, the system in the U.S. allows it to correct ills and wrongs that the society commits. It was designed to protect the people and it does as history shows. It’s the greatest system in the world that in such a short time has allowed the U.S. to be the world leader because it always in the end protects the freedoms of the people. No man and no group can take it down many have tried and all have failed.
The fact that the American system is self correcting is why it will remain on top, it really is that simple. If that warrants a label that Americans themselves are simple that’s fine with me as the more ‘complicated’ mindset of the rest of the world hasn’t worked out so well, especially in the Muslim world. Good luck with that.