Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

Pointing the discussion again to what Islam teach about Jesus:

  1. What does Islam teach w.r.t. Jesus' mother Mary after Jesus' birth? The Bible have her marrying (before birth) Joseph and having some normally conceived children, half-brothers and -sisters of Jesus.

  2. The Qur'an mentions that Jesus is the Messiah/Christ (Surah 3v45). What does Islam understand under the term Messiah (Hebrew) or Christ (Greek)?

  3. Jesus is referred to as being the "Word" of Allah (Surah 4v171). What is understood with this term?

  4. In Surah 19v19 Jesus is called a "holy" son. What is understood with this term?

  5. In Surah 4v158 Allah raised Jesus up to Himself. Who else has been in the presence of Allah as per Islam's teaching?

  6. Previously asked but no clear answer: Why was it necessary for Jesus to be born from a virgin? Doesn't this make Jesus MORE important than the prophet Muhammad?

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

i fail to see why we are debating on the wording of Bible which we believe to be corrupted, however in this corrupted bible i do not see any hint of Jesus and God to be one. All these are far fetched and twisted to generate a hypothesis. why did he never said that himself. A concept he never cared to explain and you make a mountain of a mole hill. Christians preach us so much not to have literal interpretation and even their own literal interpretations fail to prove anything convincingly.

All of these could have been taken the other way round, why did not Jesus declared unequivocaly that he is part of the three. He used a lot of metaphor according to wording of the bible which we doubt ever was like that. I think Paul could only go this far in twisting the language.

I think now the dialogue has reached saturation point and has lost its value. On my part i thank old man for educating me a lot about bible, however i have my reservations about the inferences being drawn from it. Quran uses a much straight forward language and declares what is there and what is not.

Old man can you give me the history why the word father is used for God in Christrianity or used by Jesus? I think such information would be more useful rather than debating on the scripture, no one will be able to convince the other party. To believe a scripture you have to believe before reading it, like we read the Quran or Old Man is reading the bible. we will never be able to draw same conclusions from these two books.

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

Jesus said in John.14v6: I am the way and the truth and the life. No-one (the prophet Muhammad included as well as his mother Mary)* comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know the Father as well. From now on, you do know him and has seen him.*

The Christian faith is summarised as follows in Titus.2v11-14:

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope - the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

Because it was asked by the participants.

Jesus used the word “Father” to denote a close proximity and understanding between them. He also used the word to denote the level of authority between them with the Son always obedient to the Father. Jesus use the word to explain to us that God Almighty is not a distant and abstract God but one that wants to have a relationship with us his creation. And then Jesus also used the word to denote the Tri-une God Almighty when he asked his disciples to baptise new converts in the name of “the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”.

There are also a few references in the Jewish Old Testament where God are seen as a loving and caring Father God.

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

I believe Jesus' most important lesson was that he demonstrated a manifestation of what the perfect man could be. To love your neighbor and your enemy. Pray for those who persecute you. Forgive and love undconditionally. To not judge. To turn the other cheek. Help the needy. Follow the golden rule. Unselfishness, inclusion, tolerance accpetance.

Some of these traits were taught by other prophets, but not all.

Unfortunately many Christians only follow some of these teachings. Many of them go against our selfish human nature. Christian should mean Christ-like and for the most part the term is mis-used

BRIDAL PICS.
BRIDAL PICS.
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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

That doesn't sound like teachings at all. I meant details. When a Christian says do good, what is meant by it? Why are the pillars of Christianity taught by Jesus PBUH? Or the essentials that Jesus PBUH taught that make you a Christian?

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

No such things are mentioned in the Quran. The Qurans account is limited to Jesus PBUH. The others have no relevance in a religious context for a muslim.

Anointed.

Promise from Allah SWT to Mary. Like you say I give you my word.

19:16 Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.
19:17 She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
19:18 She said: "I seek refuge from thee to ((Allah)) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."
19:19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

Quite simple to understand. Jesus PBUH would be a pious son born to Mary (Mary's Son not Gods son if that is what you mean).

4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
4:158 Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

Unto himself does not necessarily imply in Allah SWT immediate presense but away from the people somewhere near him. There is a long hadith about Prophet SAW Miraj journey, which relates where he met Prophets in the heavens. Its a long hadith so I will not post it however according to it Muhammad SAW met Prophet Jesus PBUH on the second heaven.

It shows Allah SWT complete control of creation to those refute that he cannot raise us up from the dead. He can create us from any combination. Adam PBUH without man or woman. Eve PBUH without woman, Jesus PBUH without man and us from both man and woman. No it does not make him more important and further more we do not distinguish on how important a messenger is. Some messengers may be more favored over others but it does not diminish their importance. Each messenger came to play his role in his respective era. By this criteria, Adam should have been more important than Jesus PBUH in Christianity since he had neither father nor mother. These are false standards for a muslim.

Men with Magical Powers
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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

Well said, Seminole.

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

You lost me. No teaching? A statement that salvation can only be attained through accepting Jesus as saviour is no teaching? Anyway, let me give you not the pillars of the Christian faith but the foundation it’s teaching is build on as per Hebrew 4v12-5v6:

*…though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Therefor let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead,and eternal judgement…*

As per Seminole, Jesus summed up what is the most important commandment from God ever given in Mark.12v28-31:

…he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

In summing up:

  1. John.14v6 - Salvation only possible because of the sacrifice of Jesus’ death on the cross.
  2. John.3v3 - Rebirth a requirement to partake of the salvation offered through Jesus’ sacrifice.
  3. Mark.12v29-30 - Believe in the one and only God Almighty and giving your all for Him.
  4. Mark.12v31 - Treat others as you would like to be treated.
  5. Heb.6v2 - Baptism after repentance and indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
  6. Heb.6v2 - Resurrection and Judgement
  7. Tit.2v11 - All people have potential to be saved.
  8. Tit.2v12 - Reborn disciples need to live holy/righteous lives.
  9. Tit.2v13 - Disciples should expect their God and Saviour Jesus to come and confirm their expectation with using Holy Communion.
  10. Matt.28v19 - Christ’s message as above should be spread to all people.
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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

The above explanation is the difference between Islam and Christianity. Well all the other Prophets also maintained to believe in One God. Now the difference is

Muslims which is the name given by Allaah to all the Prophets since Adam pbuh, always believed to Worship and Praise the Creator and not the CREATED.

So we Muslims, Worship the Creator and not the Created.

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

Let me tell you Mahatma Gandhi also had the same traits, these are things which are taught even by Buddha so whats different in it. But we have to understand how these things are done and how its applied. Well, I am asking you from the Bible other than the Christ, who has manifested this pragmatically.

As a messenger everyone is entitled to show the best character as the Messenger has to be a role model to the society. Well i take the Original sin, as a lesson to Adam that when he was outcasted from the Paradise so that he learns a lesson that Satan is an Open enemy to entire mankind and we have to strive against this Sin and prove to be righteous to Worship One God.

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

Islam have no problem with her marrying and having a normal life with a family with kids and a husband?

What does it mean to be anointed. Was the prophet Muhammad also “anointed”?

So Jesus is not called “the Word” of Allah?

What does “pious” mean in Islam? Was the prophet Muhammad also holy/pious?

Into the presence of Allah means “anywhere”? Does seem as if the verse specifically state “up unto Himself” and not just somewhere where Allah is not…

So the prophet Muhammad was also raised up and met Jesus in the second heaven? Jesus still alive today, or did the prophet Muhammad met a dead Jesus’ soul? Did anyone witness this ascention of the prophet Muhammad?

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

Let me answer in behalf of USR

[QUOTE]

Islam have no problem with her marrying and having a normal life with a family with kids and a husband?

[/QUOTE]

To tell you the truth neither is it mentioned in the Quran and the Sahih Hadith so we Muslims dont wont to conjecturize the word of Allaah so we definitely dont know and we dont have knowledge.

[QUOTE]

What does it mean to be anointed. Was the prophet Muhammad also "anointed"?

[/QUOTE]

No.

[QUOTE]

So Jesus is not called "the Word" of Allah?

[/QUOTE]

Yes Jesus was the word of Allaah that means, Be is the word here thats Kun Fayakun this word of Be was taken by Jibreel alayhi salam. Its as simple as snapping ur fingers so this is the Word. So, I can write it as the

The Word of Allaah that is the word Be, and we should remember everything is from Allaah, and the Word BE is the, so this word of Allaah was taken down by Jibreel to Maryam

[QUOTE]

What does "pious" mean in Islam? Was the prophet Muhammad also holy/pious?

[/QUOTE]

In simple words the Most God fearing, is considered to be pious thats in General terms but Islam terms its the way you do it. It is called Taqwa in Islam, we worship God whom we fear, we ask for help, we do love and in that case Prophet Mohammed is the best eg. of to the whole of Mankind as we Muslims believe he is the Messenger for you and for us as he is the Messenger, for the whole of mankind.

The best practical eg, we have in terms of following religion.

[QUOTE]

Into the presence of Allah means "anywhere"? Does seem as if the verse specifically state "up unto Himself" and not just somewhere where Allah is not....

So the prophet Muhammad was also raised up and met Jesus in the second heaven? Jesus still alive today, or did the prophet Muhammad met a dead Jesus' soul? Did anyone witness this ascention of the prophet Muhammad?

[/QUOTE]

I dont understand this. Its clear that Jesus is alive from the Quran itself, so there is no doubt Jesus being dead so this would be worthless arguing. We know Jesus is alive and conclusively mentioned in the Quran that he was raised up alive and in the Hadith in detail.

No one witnessed, its something like did anyone witness Jesus in the Grave and see whether he was dead or alive. But we believe that this sign of Allaah did happen.
Coz the rational argument is the Prophets also wanted to see the Sign of Allaah, so that they could believe in Allaah.
Abraham, Moses are two eg. i can quote, so for teh Prophet, Just to show the signs fo Allaah and increase his faith, Isra wal Meraj that Ascension was amongst those in teh Divine Knowledge of Allaah.

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

Same as the Christians.

Jesus is taught to be God’s image/manifested presence in the natural world/universe according to the Bible. A third part of God has as all reason to expect to be treated as the whole, including to being worshipped.

Interestingly the Bible states clearly that Jesus = Creator. We Christians therefor ALSO worship the Creator and not created.

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

But you would not have any difficulty with it?

What does the fact that Jesus is annointed mean? What is an annointed more than other people? Why is it stated that Jesus alone, from the rest of mankind, is annointed? Annointed for what purpose?

Explain more on what the Word is. You are not really clear. In the Bible Jesus is also called the Word of God with the specific reasen of being the spoken/geniune Word/speach of God. What does it mean in Islam?

BUT, the prophet Muhammad was not “holy=pious”, because the Qur’an doesn’t mention it? Why was the word “holy” used w.r.t. Jesus and not the prophet Muhammad? Does it mean Jesus did not sin?

I see you did not explain the direction and the clear indication that it was “towards Allah”. Anyway…

Those of the Islamitic faith that say Jesus went away and married and died in Pakistan or somewhere is therefor incorrect?

Are there any other persons that was also taken up and are still alive today according to Islam? Ilijah for example?

Yes and yes and yes.

Also raised up to God Almighty?

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

Annointed is just the word used, but Basically if you read the verses specified Allaah is named Al Masih Isa ibn Maryam, That is Messiah Jesus son of Maryam. From the root word Mash that means touch, so if Jesus touches the one who is ill that person will be healed, so overall its a different Miracle which was provided to Jesus from Allaah and Jesus only does things from the will of Allaah.

Well the Word is BE thats Kun fay kun, this shows one of the Attributes of Allaah that, it is as simple as Snapping your finger. Now we agree with the Miraculous birth of Jesus for the Humans this was definitely Supra-Science and not contra science.

Well the Word which was given to Jibreel was the Word of Jesus bieng born as as in Surah 3 Ayat 45-51 complete context. Now this promised had to be fulfilled and this is expained by USR so the Word is Be and the Spirit is Jibreel. So Jibreel is taking the Word that is BE which is the Jesus, and as Promised to Maryam.

Firstly we have to look at the Arabic words and the word Holy or pure in Arabic is AlQuddoosu 59:22 can be looked at. Now let us look into the Arabic word in Surah 19 ayat or sign 19 but here its used the word Gulaman, which is got several translations.I am just on the look out for it will PM you.

Does pious equal to not sinning:) . Well nothing of that sought. Well this verse of the Quran

017.001
YUSUFALI: Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

Here the verse servan in Arabic is Abd and Abd means in Arabic a perfect servant of Allaah, a perfect worshipper. Ibada means worship in Arabic.This is accentuated well they are other verses were Allaah is told Prophet you are of Exalted character.

They have this kind of innovations so you and I know, that innovations really conjecturize, well you as a true christian believer knows the consequence of innovation and words concocted other than Prophet, so you dont find this in Quran and and Authentic Hadeeth.

No nothing mentioned only Jesus coz people Blasphemed Jesus so was raised up alive. I heard there is Prophet starting with name M read it long time back in Bible who was born miraculously as jesus.

No Moses and Abraham were not raised but in the context I am talking signs that Prophet, wanted to see from Allaah to increase there faith. So this can be different signs.
Here Abraham requested Allaah for sign and then Allaah showed him a sign adn I dont really have to define much about Moses. Same was for the Prophet a sign from Allaah and increase his faith.

Well this will go on, I wanna ask some questions:bummer: .

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

Since I want to clear my doubts, dont mind you can go on and question me I would love it.

1) You told me in #51 in bold letter Jesus was created from God, but in #74 its Jesus=Creator, which one is right.

2) If you can explain to me the days after Crucifixion of Jesus, thats confusing the 3 days and 3 night and it says with similarity to Jonah. You know this is the most asked question, I have heard from the Islam scholars but I want to hear an explanation from the horses mouth, as I feel this is the way of logically looking at things.
I hope i dont have to quote the verses you should be knowing it.

Thanks.

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

No comments onmy question?

Messiah is a Hebrew word not Arabic and does not have a connection with “youch” or “heal”. Anyway, just thought Islam has a specific expectation same as the Jews for an Anointed/Messiah to come and save the world. Apparently not, or at least not in the same sense as what the Jews expects.

In the past I have asked some questions w.r.t. Jibreel being the Spirit of God and did not get clear annswers. I know it is slightly off topic but would like to know if I understand Islam’s teaching as per the Qur’an correctly:

  1. There is only one Spirit of God and he is not an angel since the word “the” is used and he is mentioned separate from the angels. - Surah 97v4; 70v4
  2. The Spirit breathed into people can’t be Jibreel because it is Allah’s breath. - Surah 66v12; 32v9; 15v29
  3. According to Surah 19v17-19 Jibreel is but a mere angel or messenger not the Spirit of God. Surely Jibreel was the angel referred to.

Nothing in the Bible.

I think this section is drawing to a close, so please ask NOW! :slight_smile:

Hi there.
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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

I have already posed my questions

[QUOTE]

In the past I have asked some questions w.r.t. Jibreel being the Spirit of God and did not get clear annswers. I know it is slightly off topic but would like to know if I understand Islam's teaching as per the Qur'an correctly:

  1. There is only one Spirit of God and he is not an angel since the word "the" is used and he is mentioned separate from the angels. - Surah 97v4; 70v4
  2. The Spirit breathed into people can't be Jibreel because it is Allah's breath. - Surah 66v12; 32v9; 15v29
  3. According to Surah 19v17-19 Jibreel is but a mere angel or messenger not the Spirit of God. Surely Jibreel was the angel referred to.

[/QUOTE]

I hope someone can answer, i am caugt gtg. Will answer its weekend here. sorry. I will do it tonight.

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH) - Islam and Christianity

i think the wording in the bible that i have is little different then you
ok
now coming back to the point
verse number 11
And now I will be no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I come to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name which you have given to me, so that they may be one even as we are one.

it is very clear that what does Father's name means here
mean the Knowledge
for the sake of argument i say , i admit it can be a real name ie
Father gave his name to Jesus PBUH then
what will you say to
*Keep them in your name *

you say as Father gave his name to JESUS PBUH so he is GOD then
all of them will also be god

and secondly read the line quoted blue
if you take the word "one" as Father and one are one thing then
all of them will also be god

but its clear that it refer to "one in purpose"

[quote]

Jesus want his disciples to be of one mind and purpose as he and his Father God is one in mind and purpose.

[/quote]

thanks God you understand it

[quote]

Let's look at your quotation of John.17v21:

Firstly you quoted it wrong (maybe not your fault but those you think know the Bible so well :) ).

[/quote]

its not my fault

[quote]

Jesus did not talk in the present tense but future, let me quote the scripture which you intentionaly/unintentionaly quoted wrong:

"My prayer is not for them alone. I also pray for those **who will believe* in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."*

[/quote]

ok i have now taken another bible now from the internet
it is future tense
but not my fault

[quote]

Here it is CLEARLY mentioned that his future believers should be united in faith and meaning and purpose as Jesus and his Father God are. How can Christians be "in God"? In chapter 16 (not 7 chapters away :) ) Jesus explained that the Holy Spirit will be sent to his followers. The Holy Spirit will live inside of his followers and guide them further. Jesus' followers should then be in unity (if they form their lives as per the Holy Spirit's guidance) similarr as how Jesus and his Father God is in unity in God Almighty.
[/quote]

chapter 16 verse 13
i think you are refering to this

However, when he, the Spirit of true knowledge, has come, he will be your guide into all true knowledge: for his words will not come from himself, but whatever has come to his hearing, that he will say: and he will make clear to you the things to come

and you are saying Spirit of true knowledge as Holy Spirit
here it does't mentioned that he will go inside the believers

one can easily understand that it is mentioning of the coming of the new Prophet to the world

this verse refer to the Holy Prophet PBUH that he will come and will be your guide into all true knowledge , for his words will not come from himself but whatever as will be of God's word

still my question remains the same
same word "one"

you are taking different in different areas why?

as i had already quoted that

If you go to the source, the same word is used - If you go to the Greek… the same word is used - So does it mean you have 14 gods? And among those disiples, Judas was a traitor -. Even he is God? Thomas doubted Jesus Christ (peace be upon him ) - is he God? - ‘Peter’ - Jesus Christ says … ‘is satanic?’- Is he also God? No, - all of them, God Almighty - Jesus Christ and the Apostles, are one in purpose - they are same. Again

so that verse means that Jesus and God are one in purpose