Do these people exist now?This was the condition some thirty years ago but now all have become `believers’ in one way or the other.
an atheists perspective is for his own thoughts and actions, and a believers perspective for a believers thoughts and actions. the greed for heaven is purely a believer's drive who is fully convinced of an afterlife. hence, "hedonism" is fully justified as a qualification to this pursuit as well.
i am familiar with the concept of hedonism being the base of virtue. in fact, i have even heard strange things from god-men that a good deed is a sin if it is not done with the intention of pleasing the supreme being for a place in heaven.
go figure. morality?
Peace queer
It may be that others have already argued the position of Islam on this already but I have further clarification to make inshaAllah.
Firstly it is not considered wrong to be experiencing the emotional desire that hedonists experience so long as that desire is aligned to God and attributed as a blessing from God. Hedonism is a fuelling of the ego by carnal fun and enjoyment in the present. To offset this for a desire in the Hereafter fundamentally differs because of the 'faith' aspect in the Hereafter and to forsake the immediate desire for self-control and obedience to God cannot be called hedonism.
To fear God is the lowest level of faith so people who fear God and are obedient to Him are doing good.
To love God is the highest level of faith and this love creates a devotional obedience to Him again is doing good. Anything in between i.e. to desire heaven and hence obey God is also good and it is not strictly hedonism because we do not desire things in this world in place of things in the Hereafter.
A deed is only good if it undertaken to please God, i.e. selflessly.
Psyah Bhai, you can't snub atheists altogether still.. they can turn everything back and put it back to you. They just don't blv in anything supernatural.. so it can't be called a 'disease', that's being extreme.
An Atheist is just a person who does not believe in a higher power. Just because they're atheist doesn't mean they're bad people; it just means they have different beliefs. If they respect other people's faith, they're of higher morals than those who do not feel similarly.
If you do not believe in God, then yes, you are an atheist - but that does not make you immoral, and if you respect the views of others that is an indication that you do have some good morals.
Someone is not 'immoral' or plagued with any 'disease' if they are not religious, particularly if they also respect other people's decisions to be religious. Believing in God does not make someone more moral than those who don't. Spritual faith and morality are not mutually exclusive.
Re: Intellectual show offs.
This is just draggin' on an on.....
Re: Intellectual show offs.
LET GO!!
It's a healthy debate.. no one's forced to reply or read.
Re: Intellectual show offs.
let go!!
Re: Intellectual show offs.
lolz.
Re: Intellectual show offs.
hareem sister you too.
please..:)
Re: Intellectual show offs.
I know both of you are very strong believer!!
you too should not be having this debate.
Psyah Bhai, you can't snub atheists altogether still.. they can turn everything back and put it back to you. They just don't blv in anything supernatural.. so it can't be called a 'disease', that's being extreme.
An Atheist is just a person who does not believe in a higher power. Just because they're atheist doesn't mean they're bad people; it just means they have different beliefs. If they respect other people's faith, they're of higher morals than those who do not feel similarly.
If you do not believe in God, then yes, you are an atheist - but that does not make you immoral, and if you respect the views of others that is an indication that you do have some good morals.
Someone is not 'immoral' or plagued with any 'disease' if they are not religious, particularly if they also respect other people's decisions to be religious. Believing in God does not make someone more moral than those who don't. Spritual faith and morality are not mutually exclusive.
this is the crux of the matter. well put, gina.
hareem sister you too. please..:)
I know both of you are very strong believer!! you too should not be having this debate.
i've already given up bro....and psyah is also very busy to reply to Gina today. i think thread should be locked to avoid further keetchar uchaaling at each other.
Re: Intellectual show offs.
Interesting discussion! 
And mirch if you think I am lying I can tell you a test to check how genuine the those "atheist" are. Very simple test, works 100% of the time.
I am all ears . Please enlighten me. Does it not work on those atheist who were born to Muslim parents ?
Do these people exist now?This was the condition some thirty years ago but now all have become `believers' in one way or the other.
Oh yes many , it seems to be a new in thing in desies.
Re: Intellectual show offs.
People , people I did not generalize , I said some desies. That word ‘some’ also applies to atheist who have no morals , ethics and values.
A person having morals , ethics and values has nothing to do with religion or lack thereof.
I have seen atheist who have high morals , ethics and values. Lack of religion does not make all of them less of humans. But on the other hand you will see atheists likes of Jeffery Dhamer(Jeffrey Dahmer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) who did not believe in any morals , ethics and values and thought his eating of humans was justified as he is not answerable to anybody as long as he is not caught in this world. ( I am basing this observation on something I read about him somewhere which I cannot recall at the moment)
I have also seen many religious people who are scum of the earth , they superficially have faith but do not practice the high morals , ethics and values religion demands.
Probability of a religious person having strong conviction with his/her religion going corrupt is less than a person who does not believe in a superpower to whom he/she is answerable at the end of this life. I have facts and figures to prove it. And we are not discussing this here either.
this is the crux of the matter. well put, gina.
super cat,
please try holding your self back from participating in cat fight ; for few mins.
brother rent a movie instead.
I am all ears . Please enlighten me. Does it not work on those atheist who were born to Muslim parents ?
Oh yes many , it seems to be a new in thing in desies.
one thing at a time.
First let me address the ppl who are driven to atheism out of shame.
Can we please go back to the original topic being discussed.. thank yew!
Can we please carry-on the debate and drop the quoting and picking-on.. thank yew again!
Re: Intellectual show offs.
Monk, dude, stop playing Mr. Responsible and let people discuss what they want. I am sure all participants are adults and capable of deciding for themselves.