Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

I am really happy that you see India waking/sleeping/eating........ :D
Oye, Khotay this thread is about Pakistan, under Pakisan Affairs........ yeh Hindustan ko gali....... :D ..... Insomnia or deewanapan with Hindustan...
As for India worst of language agitations are over 20 years back.. now its about 3 language policy.....
Still Khotay... jaaag insaan jaaag... Talka bout Pakistan and URDU....... :D

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

I don't agree with Pakistan4Ever when he says Persian should be made national/official language because nationality wise it doesn't represent any of Pakistan's ethnic group and it is not a universal language as he says but rather it is language of the Persians (Farsiwans/Tajiks). and Arabic is our liturgical language but I think we'll keep it at that till the blessed Caliphate is restored.

As for Punjabi then it's a decent language, it's easy to express oneself in Punjabi (it's the fourth language I learnt and even I feel this way) and if Punjabis devise a standard dialect for official purposes by combining all the present dialects (Siraiki, Jhangvi, Lahori etc. etc.) it will be great as a national language for Punjab but I don't want it for my region, I'll have my Pashto for my Pashtun province.

English should remain the official language and the language of inter-provincial communication because it’s necessary in this day and age, if we don't learn it we'll only become more academically incompetent than we already are, English is necessary and I think the Muslims of South Asia should have learnt that by now after the mistakes some of our ignorant and short sighted clerics made by discouraging, look at where Muslims of South Asia are academically and compare that to the Hindus.

As far as India is concerned, they are much better than Pakistan, unlike us they have given national status to the major languages of all their states and everyone in India is not required to learn Hindi, I have a South Indian friend and although he can speak Hindi he says Hindi is not a compulsory subject in his state but he like many other non-Hindi speaking Indians feels uncomfortable that Hindi is given a superior status to other national languages in India by considering it the constitutional language because they believe that India is a multi-national state, it is not one nation and being Indian is not synonymous to being Hindi speaker.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

why can’t pakistan introduce the same indian tri-lingual formula at the national level?

this system probably single-handedly prevented a handful of insurgencies in india.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

stupid and irrelevant comment....

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

replace UP and Bihar with punjab and NWFP and you'll be ready to award him a nobel prize!

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

May be to keep this thread and forum… sane…
Can we keep the discussion on Pakistan and its languages… Rather than making desperate attempts to somehow pull India into it… :naraz:

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Rahul baboo! read the heading just one more time. Hopefully you will understand this time. The whole thread is abouut language as a weapon. And the weapon beinng used by Bharat.

The reality is that Urdu/Hindi is a weapon that destroys the host country.

South Bharati languages like Telagu, Tamil (a great mother language) etc. are far superior to Hindi when it comes to brain development.

The proof is in the pudding. Check out economic activity in the Hindi belt (zero or in fact negative), while Southie language speakers are bringing home the dough.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

you are correct antibol, the whole economy of india is based in south and western part of india(Gujrat,Maharastra,Andhra,Tamilnadu and Karnataka) and though the kerala has 100% litracy rate and lot of foregin money flowing in it is still underdeveloped due to the politics
the hindhi belt is called BIMAROU (Sick) States BI - Bihar, MA- Madhya Pradesh, R- Rajasthan, O- Orissa, U- Uttar Pradesh compared to developement , iteracy rate
and major thing is most of the PM’s and big Politicians are from this states

you have full language freedom in India, but still Hindhi people always want to insist hindhi on others, and language riots happening between tamil-kannada
, but everyone thinks they are Indians first and tamil,telugu or hindhi later, that is great thing about india

i saw in other thread about separate groups in India and i remind all that all this separate groups are fighting for a separate State with in India and not a Separate country

the language,race,religion are all created by the politicains to divert the people from the actual problem

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Thank you!

**BIMAROU states! **hahahha.

This is what I tell my Urdu People community too. We in Urban Sindh are following the golden traditions of Bimarou state of Bihar. Until we rid ourselves of Bimarou attitude, Karachi will remain Bimar (sick) and so will Pakistan. Why? Karachi is no doubt the heart and soul of Pakistan.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

:smiley: Weapon used by Bharat… :slight_smile:
I didn’t know India decides language policy for Pakistan… :confused:
Obsessed soul, the thread name has been used for Indians, but please Indians have nothing to do with you using a particular language…
Author says that if you use Urdu, you will get influenced by India. Now India isn’t doing it… He has a point so please discuss the point…

You are really trying hard to turn this into an anti India thread.
:rotfl:

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Why should a Pashtun or a Tamil have to learn UrduHindi? Why not just limit it to the Hindi belt in India and Karachi in Pakistan because these regions are the only ones who speak it as mother tongue? I have a few friends originally from Chennai, Tamil Nadu and they feel this way and non-Urdu Pakis feel the same.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Hindi is largely like you said, beautiful language for shairo Shariee (poetry). It has become irrelevant in commerce, and it taught only for it's symbolic value. Most Indians can read and write Hindi, but can't really speak it well. More Indians speak English than anything else. English is the de facto national language, and that is good. Ther are no rivalries in English, it is not one's mother tougue!

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

You got it!

Pakistan should have one compulsory language: English throughout 12 grades. Students should be allowed to select one more language from the "guldasta" (flower bouquet) of Pushto, Balochi, Sindhi, Punjabi, or Urdu.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

I dont agree! How can you teach English to villagers and commoners.. Just cuz we know her majesty's lingua franca doesnt mean it should be imposed on everyone! And what about students choosing to study in a madarssa? Will they study in English too? What should be the national language? English? heck no.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

You are underestimating the "villagers", who form 80% of our population. Let them try and figure this language thingy out.

Mad-house Madrassahs should be closed down and all the funds diverted to the regular schools. Mah-houses are breading grounds of terrorism. They should not be allowed to operate at all.

Why is it too hard to understand that we have 5 national languages: Pushto, Balochi, Sindhi, Punjabi, and Urdu.

Our law allows 4 wives, so why can't we have 4 national languages Pushto, Balochi, Sindhi, Punjabi and a mistress called Urdu (Oh Urdu is so cool to say bad things to very bad girls).

English was a "lingua franca of her Majesty" many many years ago. Now it is official language of Pakistan, and a language of science and knowledge for the rest of the world. The sooner you will accept the better you will be.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

English is necessary in this day and age, if you don't learn it you become incompetent and get left behind in the world like an ignorant fool. Nobody said English should be considered a national language (symbol of nationalism) but rather just an official language like it already is and replace Urdu with it where Urdu is used in official/governmental matters, nobody said it is a part of our heritage but we have to learn it and use it out of pure necessity, we can't just ignore it altogether that just wouldn't be very smart because nobody but us will loose out.

A few centuries ago Persian was necessary in the Subcontinent, then Hindvi/Hindustani (Urdu/Hindi) took its place but now Persian and Urdu/Hindi have long lost relevance and the lingua franca status and English has taken it as a universal language so all Pakistanis should at least be bilingual, a Sindhi should learn English and Sindhi, a Pashtun English and Pashto and so on. Urdu shouldn't be a symbol of Pakistani nationalism, it should merely be a symbol of Urdu nationalism for the Urdu people of Karachi whose language it is, for a Pashtun Pakistaniyyat should be about Pashto. One language besides a provinces own ethnic language and English should be offered as a separate subject in yrs 9/10 and they should do away with Persian as it has no relevance and Arabic should be toned down and combined with Religious Education.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Amen to all that!

Great thoughts.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

5 national languages? It will make mockery of the transactions at the federal level.. unlike in India they try to deliver a speech to the nation in pure Hindi, we would have to do in 5 languages? Imagine the president/prime minister addressing the nation in 5 languages! If nothing, the speeches will make news :D
I would go for 3-language system- English as official language, Punjabi as national language and all other languages you listed as provnicial languages for respectiv provinces- so for example in Sindh, we would have Sindhi in areas where Sindhis are most and Urdu in Karachi, and Hyderabad. So, a guy from Bahawalpur would speak in Seraiki at the provincial level, and in Punjabi w/ everybody else in Pakistan at the federal..

I can understand your anger bout Madarssa but they have been around for centuries and you can't shut them down in a matter of days.. Some Madarssas are nice but then they are in minority.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Across the subcontinent, Hindi/Urdu has most number of speakers- In India it is like more than half and it has been accepted by almost everyone except Tamil nadu ppl maybe. Plus, it is so close to Punjabi, Gujarati, Marathi, Bengali that it attracts them and they tend to have no issues with Hindi.. they stopped having language riots.. we had them in 1971 cuz of Yahya Khan type jaahils.. but most of the BEngalis I have met from Bangaldeshis have no problem with Urdu- they watch Bollywood movies and can speak albiet not that fluently. The reason we have Urdu as the national language is because the Pakistan movement started in north india by north indians who were mostly Urdu/Hindi speaking plus they wanted to attract all muslims to PAkistan and Urdu united all the muslims above the deccan.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

I think English should be taught in Pakistan as an optional subject for people who are interested in international business, studying abroad, global-based private or govt services, or just for the sake of learning another language!

But keeping English as Pakistan's official language and making it play the role of national language is a very poor idea. What difference would it make between English-speaking Indians and English-speaking Pakistanis stuck with the same dilemma as we have with Urdu/Hindi. One of the major reasons for eliminating Urdu as Pakistan's national language is to bring an end to Indian cultural invasion of Pakistan and building a stronger distinct identity for Pakistanis. Replacing Urdu with English does not solve the problem, but makes it worst. English is already playing a role in India if not stronger then equal to Hindi.

I would like to quote the following arguments on English again:

*Majority of Pakistanis are still in a state of mental slavery. A far more potent danger to our culture and identity is the English domination in Pakistan which is led by the British-installed Anglophile elite of Pakistan, to serve the interests of the Anglo-Americans and their own.

Widespread ignorance among the masses is being exploited, with the false propaganda of English as the "global" or "better" language. Also, the promotion of English is misleadingly justified as the "heritage" of Pakistanis, or on the basis of "linguistic evolution".

The argument of English being a global language holds no weight, as you know these so called global languages come and go, depending on a nation's politico-economic influence in the world. At different time periods, Aramaic, Greek, Latin, Persian, and Arabic served as global languages. Sure, it is good to learn the global language or any other language, but not at the cost of losing your own. And what is more important is that while these transitions in the balance of world power take place, other nations should cling on to their language/culture in order to ensure their long term survival.

The claim of English as a better language is simply hogwash. Linguists and cultural anthropologists agree that language is independent of the mental level in people. There is no correlation between a people's language and their level of sophistication. For example, the once barbaric Germanic-speaking people, who were far less civilized than others, are today one of the most sophisticated people in the world. Languages that lack the essentials of today's constantly changing modern world can simply be further developed to meet the demands via proper linguistic institutions. Out of national pride, the once rarely spoken and ancient Hebrew language was revived and further developed as Israel's national language. Today, Israel is one of the world's leading countries in technology, and its Hebrew language proudly satisfies their demands. Japan, China, Korea, Russia, Latin and Arab countries, Iran, and many others are proof that national pride of language can overpower against any odds.

English language, as the heritage of Pakistanis is another bogus claim. The very fact that the British imperialists invaded South Asia, looted and enslaved its people, and then fled back to their country thousands of miles away does not make them part of our heritage. Unlike the Aryas, Sakas, Yavanas, Hunas, Turks, and various other invaders, the British did not settle permanently in South Asia, nor did they intermarry with the South Asians. Therefore, the British and their English language are not the true heritage of Pakistanis, but instead they are the bitter legacy of foreign subjugation and plunder.

It is true that language is in a constant natural process of evolution, dependent on the sociopolitical circumstances. As different peoples interact or merge, they influence each other, thereby bringing change. This is a slow natural process, independent of external factors. Unnecessarily using a foreign/colonial language, or purposely substituting the words in your language from it, is nothing more than slave-mindedness, and stands against the very principles of linguistic evolution. A proud Arab, Iranian, French, Chinese, Japanese, etc. would never unnecessarily prefer to speak English, nor replace words in their language from English.

The greater part of the blame for the continuing dominance of English language in Pakistan lies within us, the common Pakistanis. We blame others, particularly the elite and foreign powers, but at the same time it is very hypocritical of us to send our children to English medium schools, lavishly using English language/words instead of our own, and basically giving a godly status to everything English/Western. This slave-mindedness and inferiority complex is so deeply rooted in our psyche, that we don't even want to acknowledge or fight it. We are so much consumed with careerism and materialism that we continue to ignore the infection of slavery in our minds, like a deadly disease slowly destroying our identity and culture.*