Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Excerpts taken:

“If the Indian cultural invasion of Pakistan continues to ‘Indianize’ the Pakistanis.. then that would mean Indians have conquered us and won the war.. without a single bullet!”

Also:

**Why is Dari/Farsi a better choice than Urdu for Pakistan’s national language?

  1. Urdu has no historical basis:

Urdu has no historical basis in Pakistan region before the advent of British colonialists (the British further developed Urdu and promoted it) and was then imposed as Pakistan’s national language in 1947 by the Muhajir-dominated Pakistani media/govt. On the other hand, Farsi/Dari has a solid historical basis in Pakistan region. It was the official language through out Muslim and non-Muslim rule before the advent of British colonialists… whether locally independent or part of neighboring empires.

  1. Urdu represents an ethnic minority’s domination:

Urdu is the mother-tongue of only Muhajirs in Pakistan who represent less than 7% of Pakistanis. On the other hand, Dari/Farsi is not the mother-tongue of any single ethnic group. It is spoken by Hazaras, Tajiks, Persians, Uzbeks, Baluchs, Pashtuns, Kurds, etc. in the Afghanistan-Iran-CASia region.

  1. Urdu is a foreign language:

Urdu is only native to a part of north India (i.e. Delhi, UP, MP, Bihar, etc regions) and is a foreign language in Pakistan. On the other hand, Dari/Farsi was spoken by the ancestors of Pakistanis (pre-British era).

  1. Urdu is responsible for Indian cultural invasion:

Urdu and Hindi are the same language (except for the script and some loan-words). This enables the mighty Indian media outlets such as TV, films, news, music to strongly influence Pakistanis. Pakistanis are being “Indianized” while their distinct identities are being destroyed. On the other hand, Dari/Farsi media is weak and the language itself does not belong to any single country. This language equally belongs to Pakistan just like it was in the pre-British era.

  1. Urdu causes an identity crises:

Since Urdu and Hindi are the same language (except for the script and some loan-words), people falsely perceive Indians and Pakistanis to be the same people. On the other hand, Dari/Farsi ensures each country’s identity to be distinct. An Afghan is not perceived as an Iranian, and vice versa.

  1. Urdu contradicts the creation of Pakistan:

Since Pakistan’s creation was meant to separate from British-created Hindu India. Urdu being an Indian language and similar to Hindi is forcefully making Pakistan closer to Hindu India and undoing partition. On the other hand, Dari/Farsi will ensure Pakistan becomes more different from India and make it closer to its western neighbor with whom it has close historical, racial, cultural and religious ties.

  1. Urdu is disintegrating Pakistan:

Urdu imposition was mostly responsible for the loss of East Pakistan. And most Sindhis, Pashtuns, Baluchs, etc. strongly resent Urdu imposition. On the other hand, Dari/Farsi is not resented by any ethnic group of Pakistan because it does not belong to any ethnic group and has a solid historical basis in Pakistan.

  1. Urdu is the language of the Hindus:

Urdu/Hindi is the mother-tongue of almost 400 million Hindus in India and only 10 million Muslims in Pakistan. On the other hand, Dari/Farsi is only spoken by Muslims.

  1. Urdu lacks sophistication:

Most of Urdu literature is filled with wine drunken love affairs when the Muslim rule was steadily declining. It lacks science and modernity, even today. On the other hand, Dari/Farsi has plenty of books in various sciences and arts, was always the language of the sophisticated, and today has no problem adopting modernity.

  1. Urdu is a legacy of British colonialism:

Urdu/Hindi was never the official language during Muslim rule (it was always Dari/Farsi/Persian), and was first promoted and further developed by the British colonialists (Hindustani/Khariboli language was “communalized” at Fort Williams College giving birth to Urdu and Hindi). The British rejected Persian language in the region to de-link any Muslim connections with its western neighbors, and promoted Urdu/Hindi to engineer their newly created “Indian” colonial identity with Ganges region as its center.

  1. Urdu is a slave language:

Urdu/Hindi has always been a slave language. For example, its original/native speakers (north Indian Hindus) adopted much of Persian words/script when ruled by the Persian-speaking Muslims, and then adopted much of English words when ruled by the British (which continues today with Anglo-American global influence). On the other hand, Persian language was the language of Southwest/Central/South Asian Muslims who proudly ruled the whole region for many centuries. Today the remnants of Persian speakers are proof that Persian language does not bow down to foreign influence/occupation, and proudly utilizes its own words.**

Read all the other very interesting eye-opening facts:

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Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Beta, pichli saal May mein bhi yehi dhaaga shuroo kiya tha, ab dobara payt mein dard uth raha he kya?

Deja vu from May last year:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=183324

Before calling Urdu an Indian language, you need to first tell us what actually is meant by the term “Indian”.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

http://ms.essortment.com/urdulanguage_rguo.htm
‘Urdu’ is a Turkish word which means ‘foreign’ or ‘horde’. This just shows that the language represents it’s origin being an amalgamation of foreigners with the natives of South Asia. It was formulated by the interaction of foreign army, merchants and immigrants to India. Today, it is the national language of Pakistan and is quite similar to the neighbouring country India’s national language Hindi. Infact, the grammar of Urdu is quite similar to Hindi. The forte of the language has been and still is it’s literature that has some master pieces. Likewise, poets like Mirza Ghalib, Allama Iqbal, Faiz Ahmed Faiz have had a give and take relation with the language. Where they took the language as a bridge between their thoughts and their readers, they also gave the gems of their beautiful poetry to the language.

http://www.iranchamber.com/literature/articles/language_of_armies.php
“The birth of Urdu language was the direct result of the synthesis between the invading armies of Mahmud of Ghazni with the civilian population of the Indian cities. The word Urdu itself means Lashkar, derived from the Turkish language meaning armies.”[2]

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/1335/Lang/hndy_lg.html
The vocabulary is 80 % of Islamicate origin, being loand from Arabic, Pharsi and Turkish. Pure Hindustani words account for 10 %, while Sanskrit account for another 10 %.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Here is another interesting excerpt:

*What made the British choose Urdu rather than Persian is revealed by the available documents of that period. For instance, the Commissioner and Superintendent of the cis-Sutlej states wrote to the Secretary, Punjab Government, on 17 June 1862:

"In 1853 when I first took charge of the Commissionership the language of the Courts was Persian; and I altered it to Oordoo for two reasons. Firstly the extreme slipperiness of Persian, and extreme Provision of Oordoo as a Judicial language. 2ndly the Political advantage of hastening the amalgamation of our provinces."

The idea that the peoples of Pakistan region should look towards India, where Urdu was predominant, and not towards Afghanistan/Iran/Central Asia, certainly influenced the choice of the vernacular in this region.

This is further supported by the following letter of 22 July 1862 from the Director of Public Instruction to the Secretary of the Punjab Government:

"Persian may be considered the vernacular of the educated classes rather than Urdoo, .... I would recommend that Urdoo be continued as the Court Vernacular. On the annexation of the Punjab political motives, I dare say, had a great share in giving the superiority to Urdoo over Persian, which was commonly used in the Courts, and the desirability of making the union of the wild tribes with the adjoining population in our territories more complete, and their intercourse more convenient, by the use of a common tongue, is obviously very desirable. All our Education efforts tend to this object among others and they will be greatly aided by the currency of Urdoo, in all our Courts, as the standard language."

Reference: See the letters between British officers in the book, Development of Urdu as Official language in the Punjab (1849-1974), Nazir A. Chaudhry (Lahore: Government of the Punjab, 1977).

It is a fact that the British imperialists replaced Persian with Urdu in order to destroy Pakistan's close cultural/political links with its Persian-speaking Muslim neighbors on its west/north, and to engineer/promote their newly invented "Indian" colonial identity with Urdu/Hindi-speaking Gangetic (eastern/Hindu) region as its base. So let us undo what the British colonialists had started.. by rejecting this bitter and brief British legacy of Urdu/Indian language/cultural imposition.... by "de-Indianizing" ourselves and reverting back to our natural independent/distinct status.*

BTW, India = The British created entity with Gangetic valley (Hindi/Urdu-belt i.e. UP, Delhi, Bihar, MP, etc ) culturally/politically dominating.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

The word 'Urdu' might be Turkish, but the plain fact is Urdu is the same language as Hindi minus the script and few words. Urdu and Hindi were originally called Hindustani which evolved from the north Indian Hindu language of Khariboli with a few influences from their Turko-Iranian rulers. Overwhelming majority of the features in Urdu language are derived from native north Indian Hindu language of Khariboli including the syntax, vowels, vocabulary, etc. The claim that Urdu is 80% Islamicate (i.e. of Persian/Arabic/Turkish origins) is simply nonsense propaganda (its more like 10-15%). If this claim was true then how come Urdu and Hindi speakers can completely understand each other meaning Urdu/Hindi is a Hindu language because it is the mother-tongue of 400 million Hindus in India and only 10 million Muslims in Pakistan. Besides, an Urdu-speaker cannot understand Persian/Arabic/Turkish (except for a very few words)!

Hindustani evolved during the declining period of Muslim rule due to the interaction between Persian speaking Muslim rulers and Khari-boli speaking Hindus of UP/Delhi/MP/etc. region. Hindustani (aka Urdu/Hindi) was only native in those regions of UP/MP/Bihar/Delhi/etc. With the invention of Two Nation Theory and communalization of north India, the Persianized form of Hindustani now was called Urdu and remained the mother tongue of only Muslims of UP/MP/Delhi/Bihar/etc. (and Muhajirs in Pakistan) whereas the newly engineered Sanskritized form of Hindustani was called Hindi and slowly became the mother tongue of Hindus of these same regions. But they were still the same languages and still are.. for example if Turks of Anatolia adopted the Latin script less than a century ago and added words from English/French... it still remains the same Turkish language, regardless of those minor changes! Written script does not mean any thing nor does loan-words ... for example, Azeri language of Azerbaijan has some Russian words and is written in the Cyrillic script, whereas Azeri language of Iran has some Persian words and is written in the Perso-Arabic script. Regardless, Azeris of both countries are the same people speaking the same language! Same thing applies to Urdu and Hindi.. they are still the same language

Interesting article:

Language is the most important aspect of culture. It is the dominant feature in determining nationality or ethnicity. It is the binding force that unites a people, and makes them distinct from others. Language represents a people’s heritage and identity. However, the imposition of Urdu as the national language of Pakistan has been disastrous to the country.

Urdu language evolved during the declining period of Muslim rule in South Asia. But Persian (Farsi) always remained the official language of South Asia during the Muslim rule. Turkic and Arabic languages were also popular, Turkic language being the mother-tongue of many among the ruling elite, and Arabic language learnt for religious or scholarly purposes. The base of most South Asian Muslim empires was in north India, particularly in Delhi and surrounding areas. With the passage of time, due to the constant interaction between the ruled Khari-boli-speaking north Indian Hindu masses and the ruling Persian-Turkic-speaking Muslim elite, a new language slowly evolved called Hindustani, whose Persianized form came to be known as Urdu. Although, Hindustani/Urdu language eventually became popular, it was limited to parts of north India (Delhi, UP, MP, etc.) and never became the official language during Muslim rule. Other regions continued their native languages such as Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, Kashmiri, Seraiki, Baluchi, etc. having nothing to do with Urdu, while Persian was the official language throughout the Muslim empire.

Even in the case of north India, the official language continued as Persian down to the days of the last Mughal emperor. “Persian remained the official language of every Muslim state in India and the ambition to emulate Persian classics was nowhere given up, the influx of Persian poets being a compulsion for the study of Persian” (Indian Muslims, by M. Mujeeb). It was only later on, from the advent of the British that north Indian Muslims adopted Urdu and developed an attachment for it. “During the first centuries of its existence, Urdu literature was entirely poetical. Prose Urdu owes its origin to the English occupation of India and to the need of text books for the College of Fort William. The Hindi form of Hindustani was invented at the same time by the teachers at the College. It was intended for the use of Hindus and was derived from Urdu by ejecting all words of Arabic and Persian birth, and substituting in their place words borrowed or derived from the indigenous Sanskrit” (A Study of History, Vol. V, by AJ Toynbee). Also, the Perso-Arabic script of Urdu and Devangari script of Hindi are other significant differences between the two.

Despite these differences, Urdu and Hindi languages are extremely similar to each other, mostly composed of native north Indian linguistic elements. Having a common origin, both languages are intelligible to each other, and overwhelmingly share the same syntax, vowels, vocabulary, etc. It would be safe to say that both Hindi and Urdu are almost the same language, the minor differences being somewhat comparable to the Persianized Azeri language of Iran with the Russianized Azeri language of Azerbaijan. Leaving aside the undoubtedly close relationship between Hindi and Urdu, the fact remains that Urdu is only native to parts of north India, and is a foreign language in Pakistan.

Since north India (Delhi, UP, etc.) was the base of Muslim and British empires, the Urdu-speaking north Indian Muslims had an environmental advantage in better education, jobs, and businesses. The result being that the Urdu-speaking north Indian Muslims dominated in South Asia as the educated elitist Muslim class. Due to their domination, it led to Urduization of some other non-Urdu-speaking Muslims who sought better education and status. Also, to some extent, propaganda of Urdu as being the only true “Muslim” and “superior” language of South Asia was promoted. With the birth of Pakistan Movement, the bulk of it having a majority of Urdu-speaking north Indians, Urdu language was further promoted. Upon Pakistan’s creation, the peak of Urduization process became a reality with the imposition of Urdu on the non-Urdu speaking peoples of Pakistan, in the form of Urdu as the national language of Pakistan.

Except for the 7% of Pakistanis who are north Indian Muslim migrants or their descendents, also known as Muhajirs, whose mother-tongue is Urdu, none of the other Pakistanis have anything to do with Urdu. In fact, imposition of Urdu is resented among many peoples of Pakistan. The loss of East Pakistan was also mostly due to imposition of Urdu on Bengalees. There were language riots in Sindh during the 70s. And basically Urdu is resisted in much of the country. If many people have learnt Urdu, it is simply because they are forced to do so, for social and economic communicational necessities under the Urdu-dominated system of the country. Instead of Urdu, why was not Arabic or Persian made the national language of Pakistan? At least, Arabic is the language of Islam (of Quran), thus naturally it would had been more accepted among Pakistanis. Also, Persian was another logical option, because of its historical role of being the official language in the region (Muslim and other periods), and would have made us closer to the Muslim brothers on our western borders.

National language is suppose to unite a country, but in Pakistan, Urdu as the national language has caused division and resentment among most Pakistanis. But the worse part is that Urdu being a north Indian language and foreign to Pakistan is slowly destroying the local languages/cultures, and “Indianizing” the native Pakistanis. This is cultural and linguistic genocide of Pakistanis. It is Indian imperialism, wearing the mask of falsehoods about Urdu language. Many of the native languages of Pakistan are already in danger of being extinct, mostly due to Urdu imposition. And when a language dies, so does its people’s identity and heritage. Pakistan was created mostly based on our cultural distinctiveness; unfortunately, Urdu-imposition is only forcefully making us artificially closer to India. And with this linguistic imperialism, also comes other aspects of cultural invasion. For example, north Indian music/TV/film dominates in Pakistan, whereas native Pakistani music/film/TV is largely ignored by the Urdu dominated media.

We Pakistanis are grateful to Quaid-e-Azam for his efforts in the creation of Pakistan; however, as a human being he was not perfect. Jinnah’s choice of Urdu as the national language of Pakistan was his biggest mistake with long-term negative consequences. Criticizing Urdu as the national language of Pakistan might be very painful to many Pakistanis. But ignoring this issue with falsehoods and illusions will only worsen the problem. Let us be open-minded and cease Urdu as the national language of Pakistan...........

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

I never thought that Pakistani's are so concerned about Hindi. It reminds me of the fear of few south Indian states (esp. Tamil Nadu) about the language domination.

However, I think there is some point in what Pak guy tells. He has definitely given us, Indians, some idea of how to Invade and dominate Pak.

  1. All Indian television serials earning being broadcast in Pakistan should be given 100% tax exemption in India.

  2. All the Hindi movies should be promoted by India in Pakistan and Indian government should give a 100% discount on tax earnings.

  3. All the DVD's of Hindi movies exported to Pakistan should be highly subsidised.

  4. All the prices music cassettes of Hindi movies exported to pakistan should be slashed.

  5. Bring in special schemes and games to encourage pakistanis to watch Indian movies (lucky winner of a ticket will get all expenses paid return trip to Bollywood and chance to dine with their favourite star).

  6. Posters of bollywood stars should be given free of cost to pakistanis.

Any other thoughts guys (Rahul, singh, et al) on dominating the Pakistani cultural scenario.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Any time a Bharati beauty shakes her booty and says Pia ki aayee mujay yaad (I yearn for my Pakistani lover), another Pakistani lance splits apart the weak fabric of Bharati society. So don't worry about status of Urdu in Pakistan. We'll keep it as a language of shairo Shairee. While our real official language remains English. So Akoona Matata, and no need to worry.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

First thing first, like most of other threads, this thread has nothing to do with Indians doing anything, still the name of the thread is as Indians are doing it by purpose. Sirjee go ahead and turn your language to Latin, I don't think that matters, its your internal matter, Please don't drag us into it....
When somebody reacts on such strong senstivities and anti India feeling, Next person becomes obscene and abusive... this is how sensitive is educated class...

on the topic..
Integration of cultures is part of evolution, over the time internationalization will bring all of us together more and more, isolation won't work. So barriers of language and culture will go over time..
Dutch/ German all are trying to learn English. Its a matter of time where either you ship in or ship out.......

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

you guys are so messed up in the head, find a hidden agenda behind everything.

need ya'll be educated that india, pakistan were the same country some decades back, the language most widely understood was hindustani, roots are not easy to shake off, and no not many of your ancestors spoke farsi, much as you'd like to believe it. thankyou.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

I agree with the article in that Urdu and Hindi are the same language, minus some loan-vocabulary the structure of both languages is the same. The grammar, syntax and vowels etc. are the same in both languages because both are from Khari-Boli/Hindvi/Hindustani, which during Independence 1947 was over-PersoArabised on our side and over Sanskritised on their side.

To learn the other dialect all a Paki need do is watch Star Plus and he'll pick up Sanskrit vocabulory and instantly know their meaning because of the context in which they are being used, I was only taught Urdu but I find Hindi completely intelligible and have learnt many Hindi words this way: parivar=khandan, parampara=izzat, garv=naaz, pratna=dua, puja=ibadat, shanti=sukoon, aatma=rooh, aatma-hatiya=khud-kushi, pradhan-mantri=wazir-e-azam, dharam=mazhab, ishwar=parvardigar, chand=mahtab, suraj=aftab :P

But I don’t agree that a language can be Hindu or Muslim, languages don’t have religions and I don’t agree that most Pakistanis spoke Persian, maybe only the ruling elite did.

Today the ideal thing in Pakistan would be to retain English as the official language and language of inter-provincial communication, make Urdu a national language of a separate Urdu province (Karachi) and completely do away with it in other provinces and recognise Punjabi, Pashto, Sindhi and Balochi as sole national languages of their respective provinces.

Pakistan should recognise that it is a multi-ethnic/national/cultural state which only has religion in common.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Pakistan should recognise that it is a multi-ethnic/national/cultural state which only has religion in common.?????????????

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

^
Yes, what do my Pashtuns have in common with Punjabis or Sindhis or Urdus except religion?

I love learning about different languages and cultures so I'm well versed in Punjabi and Urdu culture but at the end of the day it's only something foreign I find interesting and choose to appreciate but Pashtuns like me are a minority, the majority of my people have no desire to learn about Urdu language or culture because it doesn't interest or benefit them, only the ones back home are forced to learn it. Balochis and even Sindhis (who can be classed as Desi) do not usually have an interest in Urdu, I've only ever seen Punjabis who are so ashamed of their roots and have such a inferiorirty complex that they take pride in speaking Urdu and teaching it to their kids and discard their mother tongue.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

urdu and hindi are similar but they’re not the same!

the difference could be noticed between starplus news and geo news or when shaukat aziz and manmohan singh speak!

yes, their films and tv have mostly urdu so it can be seen as a weapon!

y change urdu, because we understand hindi/its similar or because our history does not depict urdu??

i’m against changing urdu as our natinal language!
Quad e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Allama Iqbal and others who created Pakistan did not make a mistake!!

even if we were to change, urdu would not seize to exist, and people would still understand hindi! even if it were to extinguish, punjabis would still understand hindi anyway..the weapon would still be there..and how can one say sindh, baluchistan and nwfp would be put of indian entertainment?
urdu isnt the national language of Afghanistan, but bollywood has still got an audience there!!

although people proposing such a change are trying to achieve something i.e. stopping pakistan getting indianised but it might just go futile..

rather we need to educate our people.. we need to have a superior justice system..

we need to vote for Imran Khan, lol, really people!

even if were to change, i’d prefer Arabic over anyother! Its the lanuage of Quran ad our Prophet :saw: ! plus majority of pakistan reads arabic anyway!
rejecting it because our history ancestors dont match or our heritage is different is wrong!

as for not all pakistani’s being able to speak urdu or having an interest or no interest, you would have the same problem with the new language if its a problem!!

changing urdu because its similar to India’s language or its origin was india , wrong!

My first language isnt urdu, its punjabi, i got no issues with punjabi or sharam waram, afterall i have to die one day, i am what i am!!

Urdu is our National Language!! :salute:
Urdu is and Urdu remains!! :jhanda:

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Well I agree making Persian Pakistan’s national language is pointless and baseless but so is having Urdu as sole national language for the entire country, no doubt it’s a beautiful language but confine it to Urdu people from Karachi whose language it is, don’t impose it on the rest of us, Pakistan is multi-ethnic and to you being Pakistani should mean being a Muslim Punjabi and to me being Pakistani should mean a Muslim Pashtun.

Like I said before except for foreign loan-words Urdu is the same as Hindi, there is more to a language than just vocabulary, in fact it would make sense to have more Sanskrit words in Urdu because Sanskrit is from present day Pakistan and languages have no religion. I don’t know why Pakis feel they have to claim to be Arab or Persian to be considered Muslim, maybe that mentality comes from the Hindu days when religion and ethnicity/caste were intertwined but religion and ethnicity are separate and a Rajasthani can be a better Muslim than an Arab. As Muslims we're (or meant to be) a nation based on religion instead of ethnicity so any Muslim can lay claim to the collective heritage of the Ummah.

Feeling of superiority or inferiority based on color, ethnicity, tribe or tongue is wrong and a thing of the un-Muslimised jaahil nations.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Bull! Urdu a dialect of Persian and related to Dari? :cb:

If that’s the case I want one of you Urdu speakers to go to audio gallery and listen to two Dari songs (Molke Afghan and Nazi Jan) and translate them word per word into English and don’t try searching for the translations through google because I’ve seen them and they are incorrect in places.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

The different ethnic groups of Pakistan should be respected and given more autonomy. However, the different ethnic groups of Pakistan have much more in common with each other:

  1. Punjabis, Sindhis, Pashtuns, Kashmiris, Seraikis, Balochs, etc. are linguistically an Indo-Iranian people.

  2. Punjabis, Sindhis, Pashtuns, Kashmiris, Seraikis, Balochs, etc. share a common history/heritage such as Harappans, Aryans, Greeks, Persians, Scythians, Kushans, Hephthalites, Arabs, Turks, Mughals, etc.

  3. Punjabis, Sindhis, Pashtuns, Kashmiris, Seraikis, Balochs, etc. are mostly Caucasoid by race with several variations (mixed with other races).

  4. Punjabis, Sindhis, Pashtuns, Kashmiris, Seraikis, Balochs, etc. share a common geography and economy based around Indus river and its tributaries.

  5. Punjabis, Sindhis, Pashtuns, Kashmiris, Seraikis, Balochs, etc. share a culture (with variations) derived from a blend of Indo-Iranian and Islamic roots.

  6. Punjabis, Sindhis, Pashtuns, Kashmiris, Seraikis, Balochs, etc. share a common religion as Muslims.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

As far as Dari/Farsi is concerned it is the only logical choice as Pakistan's national language and I have given references in my previous posts. English cannot be Pakistan's national language as it is a totally foreign language and a bitter legacy of British colonialism. Some one also mentioned about preferring Arabic, here are some comparison between Arabic and Persian:

I prefer Arabic over Urdu as Pakistan's national language when choosing between the two. However, the third and better option is definitely Dari/Farsi. Let's analyze a bit:

Arabic

  1. Historically, Arabic was used as an official language in Pakistan region (excluding the north) only during the brief period of Arab rule (711-855/1010 AD). So, Arabic language has very little historical basis in Pakistan.

  2. Linguistically, Arabic is a Semitic language unrelated to the Indo-Iranian languages of Pakistan. Thus, Arabic language is an alien language to Pakistan's native languages (minus the loan-words and script).

  3. Geographically, the Arab world is detached from Pakistan, with no land linking them. Therefore, an Arabized Pakistan will be an isolated Arabic island in the middle of an Indo-Iranian regional bloc.

  4. Arab extremists and their hatemongering ideologies (Wahabism/etc.) have caused instability in Pakistan with sectarian violence. Arabic as Pakistan's national language will further welcome those destructive elements and make the country unstable.

  5. Arabic might be the language in which Quran was originally written, but the Quran is and can always be translated. Just because the Bible (New Gospel) might have been originally written in Aramaic language, it does not mean that all Christian countries should adopt Aramaic as their national language!

  6. Arabic language is only the mother-tongue of ethnic Arabs, and except for the Quranic usage/purposes it is not used/spoken by non-Arabs.

Dari/Farsi

  1. Historically, Dari/Farsi was used in Pakistan region through out most of its pre-British history. The Muslim rulers such as Ghaznavids, Ghorids, Slave dynasty, Khiljis, Tughlaqs, Syeds, Lodhis, Suris, Mughals, and Abdali exclusively used Farsi/Dari as its official language through out their empires/kingdoms. Even the local kingdoms such as those of Ranjit Singh, the Talpurs, Khanate of Kalat, etc. used Farsi/Dari as its official language. And before the advent of Islam, various Iranian languages (derived or related to Dari/Farsi) were used in Pakistan region such as Vedic, Old Persian, Pahlvi, Old Saka, Bactrian, and Tocharian during RigVedic Aryan, Achaemenian, Scythian, Parthian, Greco-Bactrian, Kushan, and Hephthalite periods. So, Dari/Farsi has a solid historical basis in the region of Pakistan.

  2. Linguistically, Dari/Farsi is an Indo-Iranian language related to the Indo-Iranian languages of Pakistan. Thus, Dari/Farsi language is not an alien language to Pakistan's native languages and belong to the same family of languages (plus the loan-words and script).

  3. Geographically, the Dari/Farsi-speaking world (Iran, Afghanistan, and parts of Central Asia) are Pakistan's western and northern neighbors. Therefore, a Dari/Farsi-speaking Pakistan will attach Pakistan to the Central Asian/Pax Iranica regional bloc.

  4. With Farsi/Dari as Pakistan's national language, it will counter religious extremism in the region since Sunni extremism from Pakistan would be checked by Shia Iran and Shia extremism from Iran would be checked by Sunni Pakistan.

  5. Dari/Farsi is a well developed and sophisticated language. It has been used through out its history for science, medicine, literature, administration, arts, etc. When Arabs invaded the great Persian empire they adopted much of its civilization and integrated it within Arab/Islamic culture. Dari/Farsi film industry is world renowned for its classical/artistic and decent/mature movies.

  6. Dari/Farsi language is not the mother-tongue of any single ethnic group. It is spoken by Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Azeris, Persians, Kurds, Baluchs, Pashtuns, Hazaras, etc. in Iran-Afghanistan-CAsia region.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

The status you wish to give to Persian should be given to Pashto, Punjabi, Sindhi and Balochi in their respective regions.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Pashto, Baluchi, Sindhi, Seraiki, and Punjabi should be declared as national languages and promoted at provincial levels. Dari/Farsi should be the national language for inter-provincial or inter-ethnic communications.

Re: Indian weapon against Pakistan: Urdu/Hindi

Interesting opinion:

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I think the future World would be increasingly organized along civilizational lines.

Due to a number of factors including the nature of modern state/society, political and state patronage, modern means of communication, modern institutions and education, internal colonialism, movement of populations across porous borders, and consumerism/commercialism, the civilizations that have historical antiquity and cultural depth would further expand their zones of influence. Dominent civilizations would bring increasing number of tribal and rural communities under their fold.

One example would suffice to elaborate this point. A Pashto T.V. Channel was launched a year ago. It started looking for advertisement but faced tremendous difficulties because companies considered Pashto a local language and Urdu understandable by Pashtuns. Obviously, if there is a lingua franca, why should companies spend on advertising in "local languages"!

Bollywood is producing films in Urindi ( Urdu-Hindi ) because the vast market from Khyber to Dhaka enhances the profit margin for their products significantly.

Multinationals and national companies also tend to prefer languages patronized by state and state elite to secure favor and to gain access to market and resources. Consequently, local artists get less for their creative effort.

Coming back to the point, Gangetic plain was the bastion of Hindustani civilization. And the territories to the north were either the invasion routes for Central Asian hordes or transit places where they camped. Gagetic plain was a sort of final home/destination for these hordes where they got passively assimilated, vanishing forever, in the wider Hindustani society, like an element submerges into a compound or a river drains into an ocean.

In my opinion Hindustani identity is more mythical than other northwestern identities because the core of this identity sprung from a more stable and broader ecological base (i.e. Gangetic plain) and comparatively in more ancient times. Owing to this stability, civilizational continuity in Gangetic plain remained intact like the flow of a perennial ocean/river whereas in the northwestern territories, it was disrupted again and again by the invaders (like a seasonal torrent which flows only for a while).

In the northern territories, on the other hand, the invaders actively participated in the formation of juvenile ethnicities e.g. Baluchi, Sindhi, Punjabi, and Pashtun etc. In terms of Chemistry, these ethnicities are like solutions/mixtures with distinct complexion but retaining the characteristics of their constituents. And due to geographical proximity with Gangetic plains on one side and Central Asia the other, they borrowed influences from both sides. They are truly swing communities that can go one way or the other depending on the priorities of the state of which they are a part as well as the thrust of their neighboring civilizations on them.

As for Gangetic plain is concerned, the influence of its civilization has increased on these northwestern communities during the last one-and-half century, thanks the colonialist policies of the British Raj and the ever-increasing modernization trend. The presence of Urdu-speakers in Karachi and their emphasis on Urdu as the language of communication has further accelerated the diffusion of Hindustani cultural influences into the northwest.

The successor states of the British Raj i.e. Pakistan and India have retained the same policy regarding language issue as British Raj, although each has put a varying degree of explicit or implicit emphasis on religion to "assert" its distinct identity, more so true of Pakistan. But it is a fact that the influence of Central Asia/Persia on these "swing" communities has largely vanished making them vulnerable to the gravitational pull of Hindustani civilization. Today, a member of these communities finds it more convenient to communicate with a Hindustani than with a "co-religioust” from the north or the west.

Overall Hindustani civilizational influence is on the rise, expanding northwest to integrate the Dards, Punjabis, Sindhis, Siraikis, Pashtuns, and Baluchis into its mold.

Would religion be able to repel this tide?

Religion has not been so far and it is least likely to be in future. It would be a mistake to think that religion would have any big role to play, except in the limited social-personal life, in the future global world, where individuals, with divergent views on broader matters of life, would have to increasingly interact.. Religious assertion has been a destabilizing factor historically and it is so more in the Central-South Asian context, threatening the very existence of the societies involved and doomening their future as normally functioning societal units.

A more rational paradigm would have to be sought with religion forming a part of the overall culture but not directing the political or social process to a dangerous degree. Probably, a civilizational approach centered on history, regional lingua-franca, ethnicity, geographical proximity, etc. would have to be adopted in order to have a sense of broader identity as well as retain distinct sub cultural individuality. Religious approach is anachronistic, impracticable, irrational, and destructive.

So what destiny lies ahead the "swing communities"?

Especially if the Hindustani Civilization is allowed to expand farther north, what would be the consequences? More interesting is the question what would be its farther limits in the northwest?

Well the limit could be Indus, Khyber, or less likely Hindukush but one thing is certain that it wouldn't spread beyond Indus or Khyber or Hinudkush because these points define the southeastern extremities of Persian-Turkian World.

The options for the "swing communities" are many! For example to east-south is the Hindustani Civilization, in the north-West is the Persian or Perso-Turkik Civilization; in the north-east is Sinic Civilization; and towards the south-west across Indus Ocean, is the Arab Civilization. No civilization is inherently good or bad but in the coming world, isolated societies based on ethnicity and local culture wouldn't be viable/feasible units for survival; probably, they would have to align themselves with one of the existing civilizations.

It is for Pakistani political and intellectual elite to decide which way to go but one thing is almost certain that systems and societies based on religious identities wouldn't be viable in the future world. Sinic Civilization could not be a choice neither Arab Civilization could be because of a number of factors. The choices could only be Perso-Turkik (A greater Central Asia) or Hindustani Civilizations (a greater South Asia).

Following approach could be adopted to align with the Central Asian World:

  1. For the short run, make Urdu, along with English, only a language of communication, not a national language.

  2. Put more and more emphasis on English in official work and education.

  3. At the same time, make it compulsory for a Pakistani to learn one native language other than mother his/her mother tongue tongue i.e. either Punjabi, or Pashto, or Sindhi, or Siraiki, or Baluchi.

  4. On media, give more and more coverage to native languages.

  5. At the same time introduce Dari on media and in education.

(Personally, I think transition to Dari or any other lingua-franca would be via English i.e. Urdu-to-English and then from English to Dari etc.)

Hopefully, the above measures would significantly erode the influence of Urdu-Hindi. Then apply direct measures i.e. introduce Dari at mass-scale. Alongside, take the following measures:

  1. Rewrite history books, emphasizing geographic, ethnic, and cultural ties, Gandhara and Indus civilizations, and Central-South Asian cultural heritage.

  2. Establish cultural, political, and economic ties with Central Asian and Middle-Eastern countries. The strongest link with Central Asia will be a common lingua franca, which would make communication among inhabitants of Pakistan and Central Asian people possible.

  3. And most importantly, make Pakistan a true federal country with secular orientations and with as much autonomy for the federating units as possible. No strategy for a distinct Pakistani identity will be succeed until this pre-requisite is met.

Adoptation of Urdu/Hindi was a shrewd move, by Colonialists, to tie diverse people together into a single polity. In particular, they wanted to detach the north-westerners from their Central-Middle Eastern heritage and integram them into the Indian amalgam.

Although, the motives mostly were political but the devices employed were cultural.

Can the migration of Urdu-speakers be likened to that of Arabs outside Arab Peninsula 1400 years back, which Arabized the present non-Peninsular Arab world? Or should we compare it to the gradual Chinization of Siberia due the increasing number of Chinese settlers?

I mean are there other such examples to give us a better insight into the issue?

The migration of Urdu speakers to Karachi shouldn't be considered a normal event. It would have historical impacts. It accelerated the process of Indianization of the native communities as begun by British.

And it would have future consequences.

Down the road, in a time-span of 15-20 years, when borders would become softer and the Urdu speakers in both the states would start interacting with each other increasingly and in increasing numbers, that would open another dimension of integration i.e. integration at demographic level.

I read somewhere that when Mongolia secured freedom back in 1920s, the father of Mongolian freedom struggle wrote a letter to Stalin or Lenin requesting Russia for close political, strategic, and cultural ties. This was to protect Mongolia against the Chinese cultural, political, and demographic threat. He had said, we would be swarmed by Chinese. *