Indian Muslims - An Oppressed Minority

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
121

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by nikhil25: *

where did i say that? half of his argument was that "pakistan's violence was not state-sponsored". i was addressing that piece regardless of his thoughts on india. i followed that with a response to his reference to india, which was the last piece in my post.

apparently pak madrassahs are not the best place to learn how to read...
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apparently indian slums are not the best places to learn how to be civilized :)...or to write really. challo good try to explain why pakistan has no state sponsored violence against minorities vs. that of india.

koi baat naheen, gujrat was just a hallucination for the entire world then.

122

[QUOTE]
So you are saying that because you are Islamic by definition, you are free to crush other faiths and that should not count?

What a logic!

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U have HARDLY shown that minorities are crushed in pakistan. ALl u keep repeating is the blasphemy law. Quite an extension.

[QUOTE]
Oh well. Now because you guys have a lower literacy than India, let's extend your logic and see what that makes you
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Do extend the logic. I thought we were talking about wealth also. And in that regard per person gdp in Pakistan is much higher than in India.

123

Make that double embarassment for you.

Read this:

It’s a few hundred pages of independent study that lists example after example of a what every Pakistani kid is being taught today, regardless of religion.

Some examples:

There are many many more in that report which clearly says that the textbooks are common and compulsory for all Pakistani public schools irrespective of religion.

124

[QUOTE]
Some examples:

quote:

The religion of the Hindus did not teach them good things"; another teaches the child that the "Hindu has always been an enemy of Islam"; yet another says, "the Hindus lived in small and dark houses"; and, as a final example, consider the story used in an Urdu textbook that has a Hindu character explain that "Hindus please the goddess Kali by slaughtering people of other religions at her feet'.

There are many many more in that report which clearly says that the textbooks are common and compulsory for all Pakistani public schools irrespective of religion.
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Let me guess. Ur in a mental istitution and they have given u a pc for the day.
The report "claims" to say what is being taught in ISLAMIC STUDIES. But islamic studeies isnt compulsory for non-muslims. I have KNOWN KIDS TO NOT TAKE ISLAMIC STUDIES U MORON!

125

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by picard: *

Let me guess. Ur in a mental istitution and they have given u a pc for the day.
The report "claims" to say what is being taught in ISLAMIC STUDIES. But islamic studeies isnt compulsory for non-muslims. I have KNOWN KIDS TO NOT TAKE ISLAMIC STUDIES U MORON!
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The SDPI report, clearly says that Social Science textbooks in Pakistan have been systematically engineered to bring in Islamic Studies and promotion of Islam, jihad, shahadat, hatred of other religions etc., through the regular subjects like Social Studies, History and Geography.

Read it first before calling me names :)

126

[QUOTE]
The SDPI report, clearly says that Social Science textbooks in Pakistan have been systematically engineered to bring in Islamic Studies and promotion of Islam, jihad, shahadat, hatred of other religions etc., through the regular subjects like Social Studies, History and Geography.

Read it first before calling me names
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First u were saying islamic studies is compulsory for al kids. WHen told ur wrong u are responding by saying that other subjects have islamic subliminal messages?

127

Islamic studies are not a required part of curriculum for non muslims.

128

Picard,

AS to GDP,

India

GDP: purchasing power parity - $2.664 trillion (2002 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 4.3% (2002 est.)
GDP - per capita: purchasing power parity - $2,600 (2002 est.)

Pakistan

GDP: purchasing power parity - $295.3 billion (2002 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 4.4% (FY01/02 est.)
GDP - per capita: purchasing power parity - $2,000 (FY01/02 est.)

Now since 2002, Indian GDP growth has gone up big time. And on your side poverty has gone up, while GDP growth has also gone up, but not as much as India currently.

Source World Bank and CIA Factbook 2003.

129

As a group, however, the eight riot-prone cities represent a mere 18% of India’s urban population and only 5% of the country’s total population.
Such local patterns of violence suggest that despite the Hindu-nationalist claims about Muslim attacks on Indian culture in the past, only some Hindus, and only in some places, believe them. Most Hindus and Muslims manage to live quite peacefully with each other. Gujarat’s riots represent a sick imagination about the wrongs of history

130

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by picard: *

First u were saying islamic studies is compulsory for al kids. WHen told ur wrong u are responding by saying that other subjects have islamic subliminal messages?
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If you introduce subjects in textbooks which force all kids to learn that Hinduism, Christianity etc are bad religions while only Islam is glorious and do that while teaching History, Social Studies etc., what do you call that if not forcible teachings of Islamic studies?

These are not subliminal messages BTW, unless you are talking about people in a coma ;)

131

toh indian books kab say acchi ho gayeen.. lo parrho

Indian textbook draws flak for describing Pakistan as “den of terrorism”

AHMEDABAD, India (AFP) - Indian parents slammed a social science book being used in schools in the western state of Gujarat which describes Pakistan as a “den of terrorism.”

Agitated parents told a press conference in the state’s commercial capital Ahmedabad (news - web sites) that they did not want their children learning “distorted facts” from the book, ‘Social Sciences: Standard 8.’

“As a parent, I am very concerned that my child will grow up learning distorted facts. Even the language in the book is stilted,” said Kalpana Kamdar, who has demanded school authorities investigate the matter.

The new social science textbook with references to India’s neighbour Pakistan was introduced by Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi’s Hindu nationalist government at the start of the academic year in June. It is being taught to students aged around 13.

In a chapter titled ‘Remedies against terrorism,’ the book states: “Gujarat is a border state. Its land and sea boundaries touch the boundaries of Pakistan, which is like a den of terrorism.”

“Under such circumstances, it is absolutely necessary for us to understand the effects of terrorism… If citizens join the defense forces and receive training, it will be helpful in the fight against terrorism. The fight against terrorism is a holy war being fought in the interest of people,” it added.

Social activist Cederic Prakash, who has researched the textbook says it is replete with “factual errors.”

“Our research study shows that this new textbook is replete with factual inaccuracies, historical distortions, manipulative, unscientific and above all highly discriminatory statements,” said Prakash.

Some 2,000 people died in anti-Muslim riots in Gujarat that broke out in February 2002 when an allegedly Muslim mob torched a train carrying Hindu activists, killing 59 people.

Human rights groups say Gujarat’s Hindu nationalist government turned a blind eye and at times encouraged the bloodshed.

132

[QUOTE]
India

GDP: purchasing power parity - $2.664 trillion (2002 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 4.3% (2002 est.)
GDP - per capita: purchasing power parity - $2,600 (2002 est.)

Pakistan

GDP: purchasing power parity - $295.3 billion (2002 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 4.4% (FY01/02 est.)
GDP - per capita: purchasing power parity - $2,000 (FY01/02 est.)

Now since 2002, Indian GDP growth has gone up big time. And on your side poverty has gone up, while GDP growth has also gone up, but not as much as India currently.

Source World Bank and CIA Factbook 2003.
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SO u end with conjecture and personal estimates? what do u expect me to say? "doh! ok i'll take ur word for it" ?????

133

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Talwar: *
Now since 2002, Indian GDP growth has gone up big time. And on your side poverty has gone up, while GDP growth has also gone up, but not as much as India currently.

Source World Bank and CIA Factbook 2003.
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Hey talwar, do you the stats on AIDS also?

134

[QUOTE]
If you introduce subjects in textbooks which force all kids to learn that Hinduism, Christianity etc are bad religions while only Islam is glorious and do that while teaching History, Social Studies etc., what do you call that if not forcible teachings of Islamic studies?

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I am not arguing with u over that. Not at the moment atleast. I am pointing out to u and everyone else how quickly u change ur stance!!!! (refer to my earlier post on the nature of our neighbours:squirmy)

135

haha... so they turn a thread frm minorities to gdp to passages in optional courses (pakistan studies isnt compulsory either einstein... and i doubt they mention hindus in physics)

136

Note conjecture my friend.

See:

Pakistan

GDP: purchasing power parity - $318 billion (2003 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 5.5% (2003 est.)
GDP - per capita: purchasing power parity - $2,100 (2003 est.)
GDP - composition by sector: agriculture: 23.3%
industry: 23.5%
services: 53.2% (2003 est.)
Investment (gross fixed): 12.9% of GDP (2003)
Population below poverty line: 35% (2001 est.)

India

GDP: purchasing power parity - $3.033 trillion (2003 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 8.3% (2003 est.)
GDP - per capita: purchasing power parity - $2,900 (2003 est.)
GDP - composition by sector: agriculture: 23.6%
industry: 28.4%
services: 48% (2002 est.)
Investment (gross fixed): 23.1% of GDP (2003)
Population below poverty line: 25% (2002 est.)

India has higher per capita GDP as well as much lower poverty than Pakistan. we are not in the 1960s anymore, are we? :slight_smile:

137

Accha bhai, india accha hai from what you say, but the post did not start with the report from a pakistani source, but from a group of indians. jao convince them that all is good :)

138

Muslim kids forced to sing Vande Matram in is another example of Indian secularism and tolerance

139

bhaiyon this thread is going nowhere. we're now on poverty in the 60s and now. picard is right... squirm they will, indefinitely.

im out.

140

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Rebel X: *
Accha bhai, india accha hai from what you say, but the post did not start with the report from a pakistani source, but from a group of indians. jao convince them that all is good :)
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Sure, the IMC is a group that supported the Taliban. We have some bigots who are expecting Mughal rule in modern India. They can stuff it for all I care.

As to the genuine victims of Gujarat, they will not come close to being okay until the Modi clan is voted out and the rioters are executed or jailed.

All is not good in India for minorities. But you guys are taking Gujarat and saying that Indians go around butchering Muslim brethren on a regular basis.

That is what I was pointing out.