Indian Muslims - An Oppressed Minority

** INDIAN MUSLIMS COUNCIL _ USA**

Indian Muslims - An Oppressed Minority
By Abdul Haq

India has a unique experience of Muslim minority. A dominant minority in the medieval period became a dominated minority, all of a sudden with the advent of British rule in India. This sudden change resulted into complex problems. Partition of sub-continent in Aug 47 converted the Muslim community of India into ‘Pakistani Muslims’ and ‘Indian Muslims’. This was a great shock as far as Indian Muslims are concerned. The rulers of Yesterday, now had to live under the ‘Hindu rule’. Fifty years having passed, the Muslims who opted to stay in India are still getting a raw deal in every sphere of life. They are still drowned in the scourge of poverty and backwardness. They continue fighting the ever-hunting spectra of communal riots and threats to their religious and cultural identity. The sense of insecurity experienced by the Indian Muslims in the post partition period has been compounded in recent years by the state repression and terrorism under the ‘draconian’, Terrorist and Disruptive Activities (Prevension) Act (TADA). Under this act 7,9332 people, mostly Muslims were detained and tortured during 1990-95 across the country. Though the Act has been repealed, yet about 5000 persons, mostly Muslims, are still in jails.

Hinduism and Islam
Dr Balraj Madhok, former Professor of history at Delhi University while explaining the term ‘Hindu’ said, “Everyone living in India is a Hindu. Hinduism is no religion, it is the name of a civilization (Tahzib), a way of life.” He further said that, “Whereas his (Madhok’s) nationality is Hindu, his (Madhok’s) religion is Vedic Dharmi”. While giving an interview to ‘New York Times’ correspondent at Delhi in 1966, he said, “In this country we have never insisted on religious confirmity and we are not going to start now. However, one thing we do insist on, is that Muslims become Indians. They can worship as they like, but they must adopt this country’s customs as their customs.” What all it means for Muslims is that Hinduism is not so much a religion as it is a way of life. It prescribes not only how a man must pray, but also how he must eat, dress, converse, work and die. On the other hand Islam is much more than this. While asking a Muslim to give up all but his mosque and adopt the Indian way of life, is virtually demanding that he should give up Islam and become Hindu. Nobody can dispute that the Muslims have individually and collectively the duty and responsibility to mould their personal and social lives in accordance with the dictates of Islam, which is a perfect way of life, better than any religion in the world.

Birth of Hindu Revivalism
The Hindu reformers of the 19th century were the pioneers of Hindu renaissance. foremost among them was Raja Rammohan Roy (1772-1833) the founder of Brahmo Samaj, which represented the first throb of modernism in Hinduism. A great admirer of Muslim thought, he had been deeply influenced by his study of Islamic works (including Quran) and by Sufism. Yet at heart he was a staunch Hindu. His deepest yearnings were to turn the Hindus back to the Vedas. He was thus one of the founders of modern Hindu nationalism. The message of Rammohan Roy was carried further by Dayananda-Saraswati, a Gujrati Brahman (1824-1883), who openly raised the slogan ‘India for the Hindus.’ According to him, Hinduism was to be the sole religion of the sub-continent, and the Hindus its sole masters. The Muslims were foreigners and must be pushed out. He devised a new weapon to fight the Muslims. It was the weapon of ‘Shuddhi’ or individual conversion of Muslims to Hindu faith. After the partition of India in Aug 47, thousands of Muslims were butchered cold blooded and forced to leave India. Since then, Hindu militant Bal Thackeray of Shiv Sena and other militant Hindu organiztions are of the opinion that Muslims have their own homeland in the shape of Pakistan (though they do not accept it from their hearts), therefore they have no right to live in India.

Alienation of Muslims
In terms of numbers, the Muslims are only next to the Hindus, totalling 95.2 million (1991 census) and constituting about 12 percent of the population, yet they are considered by the Hindus even less important than the Jains and Buddhists who are only 0.43 and 0.41 percent of the population respectively (1991 census). A prominant Hindu writer S. Harrison admits that the dominant note in the Hindu attitude towards Muslim today is that, “Hindus have a natural right to rule in modern India as a form of long overdue retribution for the sins of the Mughal overlords. It is not enough that unified state with a Hindu majority, clearly dominant over a Muslim minority now reduced to 12 percent, has been established at long last in the Indian sub-continent. The fulfilment of Indian nationalism requires an assertion of Hindu hegemony over the Muslims of the subcontinent in one form or the other.” The cumulative outcome of all this is that according to Jai Prakash Narayan, “The Muslim population has been so much cowed and demoralized that they are not acting according to their convictions. They are afraid that if they expressed their real feelings, their loyalty will be suspected.”

Interference in Muslim Religion
Apart from being made to suffer a host of disabilities, political, cultural and economic; the Indian Muslims have often been subjected to a campaign of interference with their religion as well. It usually takes the form of slanderous attacks on Islam made in school text books, or in the press, desecration of mosques and shrines, or deliberate incitement of feelings of religious hatered against the Muslims. In most of the Hindu dominated Indian states, Hindu religious beliefs, philosophy and methodology have been introduced into the text books in the name of Indian culture. This is to an extent that a glance through the officially prescribed school text books leaves an impression that those responsible for them regard India (a multi religious country) as the home of Brahmans and attach value only to their deities, temples, religious customs and practices.

Adverse propaganda against Islam
The books dealing with the heritage of India exclusively enumerate Hindu heritage and gloss over everything Muslim. The Muslim heroes in medieval Indian history have been treated as ‘aliens’ and ‘strangers’, the book ‘Hamara Purwaj’ prescribed for classes VI, VII and VIII in the state of Uttar Pradesh is an instance of such unfair treatment. A text book on history approved by Bihar State Government entitled ‘Gayania Uday Basic Itihas’ carries an alleged picture of the Holy Prophet under the caption ‘Eishwar Ke Peghamber-Hazrat Mohammad.’ The author makes the statement that the Quran was written by the Prophet himself. It is not only contrary to the Muslim belief but also an adverse propaganda against Islam. The book also makes indecent remarks about Hazrat Khadija, one of the Prophet’s wives. In Rajisthan as well, text book prescribed in Schools contain derogatory references against the Holy Prophet. The Director of education Rajisthan, issued instructions to authors to see, “That lessons in India and other subjects deal with the importance of cow at all stages in a suitable manner.” The content of prayers recited in state schools is also very objectionable, grossly violating the constitutional guarantee of religious freedom so far as Muslims are concerned.

Desecration of Mosques and Shrines
Countless incidents can be cited of the desecration of mosques by the Hindu communalists during the last few decades. In 1961, the Indian Rehabilitation Minister made the claim that all the mosques and graveyards had been resorted to the Muslims. Refuting this statement, Maulana Hifzur Rahman produced a long list of mosques and graveyards not restored to the Muslims but had been auctioned by the Rehabilitation department. Some of the names of mosques and shrines mentioned in the list are Masjid Qazi Serai (near Thana Mehrauli), Masjid Begampur Khurd (near Kalu Serai), Masjid Chuna Mandi, Masjid Mantola Pahrargang (Delhi), Masjid Qabrastan Golebazar, (Thana Reading road, Delhi), Masjid Thana Civil Lines Delhi.Qabrastan village Ladha Serai, Mehrauli, Qabrastan near Dargah Hazrat Khwaja Qutbuddin), Qabrastan behind Thana corporation office, (Mehrauli), Qabrastan East of Eidgah, (Mehrauli), Qabrastan Gurgaon road, Qabrastan Gole Market, Thana Reading Road, (Delhi), and Qabrastan Motia Khan, Pahargang (Delhi).

Tragedy of Babri Mosque
The 16th century historic Babri mosque was razed to ground by thousands of Hindu fanatics in Ayodhya, (UP) on 16th Dec 92. According to Indian media reports, the Hindu Zealosts and India’s one of the largest Hindu fundamentalist political party BJP are again threatening to build a grand temple on the rubble of this mosque. Hindu fundamentalists openly announce that they would, “Purify India of Muslim remnants.” It was during 1949 when Babri Masjid was first raided. A group of vandals entered the mosque and placed the idol of Ramlallah. The successive Indian governments patronized the Hindu fundamentalists under different garbs, which ultimately turned into an uncontrollable demon.

Responsibility of the tragedy
It is an established fact that the government of India did not take any action to disperse the mob despite the fact that it was aware of the heinous designs of the unholy gathering. Instead of saving the mosque from destruction a number of government officials were reported to have watched the scene gleefully, inciting the mob to deliver a final blow to bring down the structure. The reluctance of government to either call in the army or Central Reserve Police to protect the mosque, spoke of understanding between Shiv Sena and the Union government of the Congress. Reports indicated that the assault on the mosque was effectively abetted by the guards. An Indian journalist Yuvraj Mohite, while recording his statement in the court of Mumbai said, “Bal Thackeray, founder of Shiva Sena ordered the massacre in Dec 1992 after the demolition of Babri Mosque. The double-dealing Congress Ministry of the then Prime Minister Narasimha Rao at the centre did almost nothing to Prevent the distruction of 450 years old Babri Mosque by the BJP-VHP and other anti Muslim elements”. ‘The Statesman’ of new Delhi (2 Dec 92) reported, “The VHP and Bajrang dal cadres were taught demolition methods by a retired Brig of the Indian Army in a month long training camp in a Hindu village in Gujrat State and that the State government had full Knowledge of it”. Some Indian Newspapers reported that India’s intelligence agencies had informed Narasimha Rao government’s Home Ministry about the specially trained squads raised by the BJP and VHP cohorts to destroy the mosque but the then Home Minister, Chavan, showed utter indifference and hypocracy.

BJP vs Indian Muslims
The Upsurge of Hindu fundamentalism in the states under the BJP’s rule, Rajisthan, Haryana, East Punjab and Delhi has been a source of serious concern to the Muslim minority there. But the resurrection of the BJP’s rule over Utter Pradesh, India’s most populous state with a sizable Muslim community, since late Sep this year has sent a shiver of apprehensions among the Muslim minority. As the top ranking BJP leader and the man behind the tragedy of Babri Mosque, Kalyan Singh is now again in power in this state. The hard line Chief Minister of Maharashtra, Manohar Joshi, a member of the BJP’s ruling echelon, punished the state government secretary for cultural affairs, Govind Swaroop, a broadminded civil servant, for including Mr. Jinnah (Quaid-e-Azam) in a list of India’s freedom fighters for a TV documentary film and for ranking him with Mr.Gandhi and Nehru in the fight against the British. Shiv Sena, is a Nazi style communal outfit so intense in its hatred towards Muslims that its fascist guru, Bal Thackeray, forbade the Pakistani cricket team from playing in its power base city of Mumbai a few years ago. In order to promote the Hindutva brand of militant Hindu fundamentalism, the BJP led state government of Rajisthan organized a massive celebration on 18 Jun 97 of the 421st anniversary of the ‘Battle of Haldighat’ to honour Maharana pratab as a Hindu hero for his war against Akbar, the Mughal emperor. An Indian Hindu journalist, C.P Bhambhri, in New Delhi’s ‘Hindustan Times’ of 31 Jul 97 comments, “The BJP, RSS, VHP and other allied organisations, without any shadow of doubts are using the culture and history of India to Promote the concept of a Hindu nation which was a victim of Muslim rulers and their purpose is to consolidate Hinduism around a specific religious ethos selectively chosen by political leaders” .He further writes that “The BJP hate list of Muslims continues to unify the Hindus against their religious enemy as revealed by Indian history, the BJP will like to re-write the constitution for establishing a strong Hindu state”.

Replacement of Muslim names by Hindus’
The Maharashtra government’s hostility to Muslims under the BJP- Shiv Sena ministry has been so blatant in recent years that the old towns bearing Muslim names are being systematically given Hindu colour. The historic city of Aurangabad, once ruled by Muslims has been named as ‘Sambhajinagar’ to honour the family of the anti Mughal Shivaji. Similarly a very old city of Osmanabad is being given a Hindu name. Eliminating the Muslim names of many other towns is on the Shiv Sena’s agenda.

Anti-Muslim roits.
Anti-Muslim roits are a common feature in India. Some of the recent ones are as follows:-

In the state of Gjurat, which the BJP ruled till Sep 96, the Muslim minority has been incessantly terrorized and victimized. Mumbai’s ‘Economic and political weekly’ of 26 Jul 97, published horrifying accounts of the murder of many Muslims in the village of Kukas in Mahesana district last June. On 29 Jun, truckloads of armed Hindu ‘chaudharies’ attacked the Muslims in kukas, hurling filthy abuses on them, burnt their houses and hacked to death with knives many of them.
In many districts of Gujrat, there are pockets of 25 to 30 Muslim families who are subjected to periodic terrorization and arson. Teenage Muslim girls from poverty-stricken peasant families are either forcibly bought or kidnapped for prostitution in Bombay or Smuggled to oil rich gulf states for slavery.
Deploring the plight of Muslims in Gujrat, an Indian journalist Satyakam Joshi, wrote in Mumbai’s ‘Economic and political weekly’ (26 Jul 97), “The rise of the BJP and its front organizations in Gujrat after 1980 has come as a blow to Muslims who are being reduced relentlessly to a second class citizenship. Their legitimate demands are not on the state agenda. Their harassment by the Hindu fundamentalist forces, remains unmitigated. To considerable extent, the fundamentalist forces have been able to channelise the middle class Hindu psyche against them”.

In the anti-Muslim riots in Maharashtra, specially Mumbai, armed marauders of the ‘Army of Shiva’ had inflicted death and destruction on terror striken Muslims while the police was looking on indifferently or even conniving with the Hindu extremists in killing Muslims of Mumbai.
Discrimination against Muslim community in services: According to 1991 nationwide census., Muslims constitute 12.60 percent of the total Indian population. However, the representation of Muslims in the parliament, state legislatures, administrative services, armed forces, police and para military forces, educational institutions and the private and public sectors is far below their proportion. The percentage of the Muslims in the civil and foreign services is less than a quarter of their population. According to a white paper, prepared by All India Milli council (AIMC) and presented to Prime Minister Inder Kumar Gujral, on the performance of Indian Union during last 50 years, there were only 116 Muslims out of a total of 3883 administrative officers (2.98%), 45 out of 1433 police service officers (3.14%) and 57 out of 2159 foreign service officers (2.64%). In central government, Muslims constitute 1.6% of all class I officers, 3.9% of all class II officers and 4.4% of the technical supervisory staff. According to an official report prepared by Dr. Gopal Singh Committee, there is a marked disparity between Hindus and Muslims in economic, social and educational field. The committee’s report based on a sample survey of 80 districts across the country, found that there were only 92 Muslims out of 2698 students in Engineering colleges. The number of Muslim students in the MBBS course in 8 universities of eight states was only 98 out of 2895.

Conclusion
The Muslims of India are in a state of dilemma, whether to accept humality in the form of Indian nationalism (based on secular ideas) or to preserve their Muslim identity. They have to rationalise whether by accepting the secular nationalism they will be given equal status like Hindus or will they remain aliens as they are. The Hindu desire to absorb the Muslims into Hinduism through Indian nationalism still persists. They have already done this with Jainism and Budhism and they are working on other communities living in India as well.

http://www.imc-usa.org/cgi-bin/cfm/minorities.cfm

They maybe but they support India 100% in just about everything, especially in dealing with Pakistan.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TeenDabbyWala: *
They maybe but they support India 100% in just about everything, especially in dealing with Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]

Good for you!

I am an Indian Hindu and I will say this - I am proud of my Muslim countrymen. From my point of view - They are the best Muslims in the world today - most tolerant, moderate, progressive and secular among all Muslims in the world. More importantly they are INDIANS first, MUSLIMS second....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Some1: *
I am an Indian Hindu and I will say this - I am proud of my Muslim countrymen. From my point of view - They are the best Muslims in the world today - most tolerant, moderate, progressive and secular among all Muslims in the world. More importantly they are INDIANS first, MUSLIMS second....
[/QUOTE]

Some1 Bhai,

Thanks for the compliment, Yes I am Indian First, and then a Muslim, to me my Country is my Motherland, How can I ever betray my Mother.

Hijazi bhai,

The only question for you is can you please show me any Hindu, Christian, Sikh, Shia, Ahmadi, Bohri in a Important position.

Let alone that can you please even justify the killings of one sect of Muslims by another sect of Muslims, So if Muslims cannot be safe in a so called Muslim country, why does it surprise you when they are treated as a minority in a Non Muslim Country.

The mis conception that you have about Indian Muslims arises from Ignorance, if only you would look back at history you will find many prominent Muslims in positions of Power in India.

I am quoting here a list of prominent Muslims from another post of mine dated 07 May 2004.

Please read it and tell me if you still feel Indian Muslims are Second Class Citizens.

Do these Names make any sense to you?

Presidents of India.

1- Dr Zakir Hussain
2- Justice Hidayatullah
3- Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed
4- Dr A.P.J Abdul Kalam

Vice Presidents of India.

1- Dr Zakir Hussain
2- Justice Hidayatullah

Governers of Indian States

1- Jang Mir Osman Ali Khanm 1950 to 1956 Hyderabad
2- Sir Mohamed Salid Akbar Hydari 1947 to 1948 Assam
3- Sir Saiyad Fazal Ali 1956 to 1959 Assam
4- Zakir Hussain 1957 to 1962 Bihar
5- Akhlaqur Rehman Kidwai 1979 to 1985 Bihar
6- Mohammad Yunus Saleem 1990 to 1991 Bihar
7- Mohhamed Shafi Qureshi 1991 to 1993 Bihar
8- Akhlaqur Rehman Kidwai 1993 to 1998 Bihar
9- Idris Hasan Latif 1982 to 1983 Dadra and Nagar Haveli
10- Idris Hasan Latif July 1984 to Sep 1984 Dadra and Nagar Haveli
11- Khurshed Alam Khan 18 Jul 1989 - 25 Mar 1991 Goa
12- Mohammad Fazal 1999 to 2002 Goa
13- Mehdi Nawaz Jung 1960 to 1965 Gujarat
14- Saiyid Muzaffar Husain Burney 1984 to 1988 Haryana
15- Amin ad-Din Ahmad Khan 1977 to 1981 Himachal Pradesh
16- Gulsher Ahmed June 1993 to Nov 1993 Himachal Pradesh
17- Khurshed Alam Khan 1991 to 1995 Karnataka
18- Khurshed Alam Khan 1996 to 1997 Kerala
19- Sikander Bakht 2002 to Feb 2004 Kerala
20- W Shaiza 1973 to 1975 Lakshadweep
21- Wajahat Habibullah 1987 to 1990 Lakshadweep
22- Kunwar Mahmood Ali Khan 1990 to 1993 Madhya Pradesh
23- Mohammed Shafi Qureshi 1993 to 1998 Madhya Pradesh
24- Mohamedali Currim Chagla Oct 1956 to Dec 1956 Maharashtra
25- Ali Yavar Jung Bahadur 1970 to 1976 Maharashtra
26- R.M.Kantawala 1976 to 1977 Maharashtra
27- Dr Sadiq Ali 1977 to 1980 Maharashtra
28- Idris Hasan Latif 1982 to 1985 Maharashtra
29- Mohammed Fazal 2002 till date Maharashtra
30- Saiyid Muzaffar Husain Burney 1981 to 1984 Manipur
31- Abubakar Abdul Rahim 1989 to 1991 Meghalaya
32- Janab M. Asaf Ali 1948 to 1952 Orissa
33- Sir Saiyid Fazl Ali 1952 to 1954 Orissa
34- Shaukatullah Shah Ansari 1968 to 1971 Orissa
35- Akbar Ali Khan 1974 to 1976 Orissa
36- Nurul Hasan 1988 to 1990 Orissa
37- Nurul Hasan Feb 1993 to May 1993 Orissa
38- Hafiz Mohammed Ibrahim 1964 to 1965 Punjab
39- Amin ad-Din Ahmad Khan 1981 to 1982 Punjab
40- Dr Sadiq Ali 1980 to 1982 Tamil Nadu
41- Fathima Beevi 1997 t0 2001 Tamil Nadu
42- Akbar Ali Khan 1972 to 1974 Uttar Pradesh
43- Mohammed Usman Arif 1985 to 1990 Uttar Pradesh
44- Mohammed Shafi Qureshi May 1996 to Sep 1996 Uttar Pradesh
45- Mohammed Shafi Qureshi Mar 1998 to Apr 1998 Uttar Pradesh
46- Nurul Hasan 1986 to 1989 West Bengal
47- Nurul Hasan 1990 to 1993 West Bengal
48- Akhlaqur Rahman Kidwai 1988 to 1999 West Bengal

Chief Ministers of Indian States.

1- Anwara Taimur 1971 to 1981 Assam
2- Abdul Ghafoor 1973 to 1975 Bihar
3- Abdul Rahman 1980 to 1982 Maharashtra
4- Mohammed Alimuddin 1972 to 1973 Manipur
5- Mohammed Alimuddin Mar 1974 to Jul 1974 Manipur
6- M.O. Hasan Farook Maricar 1967 to 1968 Pondicherry
7- M.O. Hasan Farook Maricar 1969 to 1974 Pondicherry
8- M.O. Hasan Farook Maricar 1983 to 1989 Pondicherry
9- Barkatullah Khan 1971 to 1973 Rajasthan
10- Kazi Lhendup Dorji 1975 to 1979 Sikkim

This list only includes Political Personalities, I can provide you similar lists about Arts, Science, Economics, Sports, etc etc etc.

What Sir is your opinion now??????

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aejaz: *

Some1 Bhai,

Thanks for the compliment, Yes I am Indian First, and then a Muslim, to me my Country is my Motherland, How can I ever betray my Mother.
[/QUOTE]
how could u say this Ejaz bhai :D.cannot believe that u r indian first and then muslim.i've always heard that u r Muslim first and then after this what ever nationality u've :D

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by jatt_pathan: *
how could u say this Ejaz bhai :D.cannot believe that u r indian first and then muslim.i've always heard that u r **Muslim
* first and then after this what ever nationality u've :D
[/QUOTE]

Nahi Jatt_Pathan Bhai,

Honestly I rarely partake in this kind of discussions, lekin when people like Hijazi Bhai, come up with cut and post articles without looking down their own Ghireban, thats when I get pissed off.

No Individual, No Government, No Country in this world is perfect, and I accept the fact India is not a bed of roses, my only complain is if you can prove and say with conviction that Pakistan is Better than India, or for that matter any Country is better than India, then I will agree with you wholeheartedly.

But Hijazi Bhai is living in a glass house and trying to throw stones at the neighbours house, Which I honestly believe is not fair.

Aejaz

Yaar Aejaz bhai you can name anyone you want to name. The fact remains that when the gujrati roits happen the Indian government and the Gujrati government deliberately didnt do anything. The CM of Gujrat was more worried about the media showing too much truth and the Indian governement was more worried about escalating military against Pakistan, then to bring those soldiers in and protect their country men.
As far as religion and nationalism comes, religion always comes first. Or alteast that is what I think.
As far as Pakistan is concerned, we have very few non muslims. Most of the non muslims are in interior Sindh and other poor areas, where everyone is poor and not just the minorities.
In India the muslims are more than 15% of the population. You will see the least numbers of Muslims joining the Indian military and the the most uneducated people in India are Muslims. I am not blaming India for all this. Alot has to do with muslims as well. But the Gujrati riots were something that could have been prevented. In Pakistan even though we have Shia Sunni problems, but atleast the group behind the killings get punished or attempts are made to punish them. I wish Indian governament could do the same in Gujrat.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by proudpakistani: *
Yaar Aejaz bhai you can name anyone you want to name. The fact remains that when the gujrati roits happen the Indian government and the Gujrati government deliberately didnt do anything. The CM of Gujrat was more worried about the media showing too much truth and the Indian governement was more worried about escalating military against Pakistan, then to bring those soldiers in and protect their country men.
As far as religion and nationalism comes, religion always comes first. Or alteast that is what I think.
As far as Pakistan is concerned, we have very few non muslims. Most of the non muslims are in interior Sindh and other poor areas, where everyone is poor and not just the minorities.
In India the muslims are more than 15% of the population. You will see the least numbers of Muslims joining the Indian military and the the most uneducated people in India are Muslims. I am not blaming India for all this. Alot has to do with muslims as well. But the Gujrati riots were something that could have been prevented. In Pakistan even though we have Shia Sunni problems, but atleast the group behind the killings get punished or attempts are made to punish them. I wish Indian governament could do the same in Gujrat.
[/QUOTE]

ProudPakistani Bhai,

Iman se I agree 100% with everything you say, my only bone of contention against Hijazi Bhai is, show me another Individual, Village, Town, City, County, State, Country, or even a Continent where he can prove that its better than India.

Is it asking for too much???

Mere Khayal mein Hijazi Bhai is just trying to ride on a wave of hot air, I dont know if you have read my earlier posts, I have openly declared my Wife is of Pakistani Origin (SP) her Mamus and Nani have still got big Businesses in KHI, and I do Concede I have a Soft Corner for KHI.

BUT NOT AT THE COST OF MY COUNTRY, HELL NO WAY.

And thats the only point I am trying to make, now can you blame me for that???

Aejaz

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aejaz: *

Nahi Jatt_Pathan Bhai,

Honestly I rarely partake in this kind of discussions, lekin when people like Hijazi Bhai, come up with cut and post articles without looking down their own Ghireban, thats when I get pissed off.

No Individual, No Government, No Country in this world is perfect, and I accept the fact India is not a bed of roses, my only complain is if you can prove and say with conviction that Pakistan is Better than India, or for that matter any Country is better than India, then I will agree with you wholeheartedly.

But Hijazi Bhai is living in a glass house and trying to throw stones at the neighbours house, Which I honestly believe is not fair.

Aejaz
[/QUOTE]

But you can't prove that India is better than any other country in the world either. So the point is moot.

Or is that the point you are trying to make that such comparisons are pointless and depend on personal opinions and experiences?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TeenDabbyWala: *

But you can't prove that India is better than any other country in the world either. So the point is moot.

***TeennDabbyWala Bhai,

I am not here to prove any point, all I am trying to say is that there are good folks and there are bad folks, so why point a finger at someone else when you very well know you have the same faults?????***

Or is that the point you are trying to make that such comparisons are pointless and depend on personal opinions and experiences?

Exactly my point such comparisons definitely are pointless, if it was to the contrary dont you think that Hijazi Bhai would have jumped on me by now???

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TeenDabbyWala: *

But you can't prove that India is better than any other country in the world either. So the point is moot.

Or is that the point you are trying to make that such comparisons are pointless and depend on personal opinions and experiences?
[/QUOTE]

what is pakistan's official position? what they are goint to do for indian
muslims give them aslyam? do they have any immigration policy for opressed muslims all over the world? or just emtpy talk without assuming
responibilty for muslims all over the world.who will depend on you for protection?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aejaz: *
Hijazi bhai,

The only question for you is can you please show me any Hindu, Christian, Sikh, Shia, Ahmadi, Bohri in a Important position.

Let alone that can you please even justify the killings of one sect of Muslims by another sect of Muslims, So if Muslims cannot be safe in a so called Muslim country, why does it surprise you when they are treated as a minority in a Non Muslim Country.

The mis conception that you have about Indian Muslims arises from Ignorance, if only you would look back at history you will find many prominent Muslims in positions of Power in India.

I am quoting here a list of prominent Muslims from another post of mine dated 07 May 2004.

Please read it and tell me if you still feel Indian Muslims are Second Class Citizens.

Do these Names make any sense to you?

This list only includes Political Personalities, I can provide you similar lists about Arts, Science, Economics, Sports, etc etc etc.

What Sir is your opinion now??????
[/QUOTE]

Dear brother in Islam Aijaz,

I am not criticising anyone here nor am I sharing my opinion. This was article I found from the Muslim Indians in America, so I shared it. Why are you being so defensive and preseneting me with a list of all the cut and paste of Muslim Indian leaders?

All I know is that, I love Muslims wherever they are in the world. Muslims of India must love their country just as we love ours. This however does not mean that they should forget that they are Muslims first and that they have some rights. You may deny it a hundred times but the fact is that yes Muslims in India are not being given their rights. I am not comparing Pakistan with India here. There could be another thread for that. I am not telling you India is bad, and nor is this an India bashing thread. After all you do for your Hindu masters, they would still look at you with suspicion deep down in thier heart. After all, you Muslims of India were part of the whole process of the creation of Pakistan. The point is that Muslims must regain their lost glory in India. (I am not comparing it with Pakistan)

We are having a decent discussion about condition of Muslims in India, irrespective of Muslims anywhere. So please take it easy , and no need to get emotional.

Thanks

Hitaazi bhai, Muslims in India live in the same usual dilemma like they do anywhere in the world.

  1. Once a dominant society became dominated after under Hindus since 1947….

Only rich Muslims were dominant with the help of rich Hindus in medieval period. Do you believe that mostly people who accepted Islam out of fear, for allurements and the majority section which was from untouchables converted to Islam and they immediately became dominant in India?
Muslims have to get out of this hypothesis.

And I really laugh at Muslim’ objection to the celebration of heroism of Hindu personalities, like of Rana Pratap. He is a historical legendary hero remained live in the memory of Rajasthan people. These so called Muslim literates in America do not see that majority of Indian historians has given high regards to the emperor Akabar, a Muslim.

  1. Yours and Islamic fear of Bal Thhakre, RSS/ Shiv Sena…….The fact is that RSS oriented organizations are very similar to Islamic setup and only for that reason you are afraid of them. Study the functioning of RSS and compare it to the setup of Islam!

  2. Babri Mosque….India is the only country where majority section Hindus cannot build a temple of their choice. Where in the world you will find such a highfy democracy?

Have Muslims never destroyed Hindu cultural centers? Thousands of Islamic structures are there in India built after destroying Hindu temples.
You do not need any survey to prove something, just have a look at them and you find the reality.

  1. Gujrat,…. yes Hindu goons attacked Muslims. How many Hindus you find who justify it or look for some design?

  2. Muslim percentage in services….what do you mean? Pay a visit to the Friday sermon at any mosque in some Muslim populated area in UP.

Do these Muftis ask them to learn, study or they make dirty political speeches under the cover of religion.

For Indian constitution all are equal. And Muslims have reached the top posts in politics, armed services. in Courts etc.

Cricket,…Muslims have been captains of Indian teams. What about Pakistan? Your good society never let any minority section player to come up.

And in the end ask these American Muslim gentlemen writes of this article……..

Why Muslim population in India is increasing in comparison, if there is so much oppression, dilemma etc etc.
And if Muslim societies are so good……show me a single Muslim majority area anywhere in the world minorities can live a normal and safe life.

Our politicians are also very coward people, they run for vote bank, otherwise the condition of Indian Muslims should have been much better.

Who is the enemy of Indian Muslims? First of all, internal Muftis, Mullahs and then this type of outer world material including the authors of this article.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: *
Hitaazi bhai, Muslims in India live in the same usual dilemma like they do anywhere in the world.

[/QUOTE]

Before I answer any of your points, first learn to write my name properly. It is HIJAAZI, not what you wrote. You Indians might have these cheap ways, we don't. So first grow up and learn to atleast respect the other person's name.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hijaazi: *
Before I answer any of your points, first learn to write my name properly. It is HIJAAZI, not what you wrote. You Indians might have these cheap ways, we don't. So first grow up and learn to atleast respect the other person's name.
[/QUOTE]

hmm.....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aejaz: *

Aejaz
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hijaazi: *

Dear brother in Islam Aijaz
[/QUOTE]

Dear Hijaazi, incorrection was a mistake. Nothing intentionally.

Both india and pakstan have problems with minrities. The difference is in India its mostly state sponsered. In pakistan, apart from zia-ul-haqs goernment, there has been no state involvement to my knwoledge in the persecution of minotirties and apart from muslim sectarian violence, the record of other minorities like hindus and christians is much better than that of india.