In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

no actually it does not imply that. the only thing it implies is that science is open to new evidence, and will trash old beliefs if the new evidence turns out against it. that is how we reach truth. that is how we know where we have erred and make the correction. religion, on the other hand, stands still. it does not change, because it does not want to. it stunts your mind. i dont know whether you'd have been using the internet had religion been the driving force of this world. religion is stagnant to the extent where it starts smelling. many of the people are simply into it just because they are afraid to confess their disappointment with it.
belief in god is not innate either. had it been so all people would have believed in God; they dont. and even the ones that do believe in God have a different perception of him. even in the same religion people have different perceptions of God. so given that it seems that God is something that is made up in the mind of a human being and does not lie outside one's head.

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

oh, and this is for slaveofAllah.

most of the muslims believe that Hindu books are not divine. yet i was reading something that said something that is so true scientifically. it related to the dawn and dusk or something. i can not recall it but when i have the book with me tomorrow or the day after, then i will post it. however, my point is if some ancient book contains something that is scientifically proven today, then does that mean that the book is true and divine?

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

^ i dont think Muslims believe that everything in Hindu books is necessarily non-divine in origin. Hinduism might be a version of the many religions Allah sent down before Islam, since we know Allah sent prophets to every nation. certainly the monotheistic aspects of Hinduism dont conflict with Islam.

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

i dont there will be anything in 2507 let alone religion

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

Yes science is study of new evidence and old evidence. You are correct to say that as was I. What you fail to comprehend is that religion is no subsitute for science and vice versa. Religion (at least Islam) is about belief in God, morality and a framework of principles from which legal laws and human behavior can be derived and very few even verbatim.

Belief in God is innate and it exists in many forms. Irrespective of what superficial form people may have of God deep down it boils down to the same truth for the religious and scientists alike, someone created everything you see and set the laws that govern it naturally. Science is the study of how things works and once that is understood how we can manipulate it, put simply. Science becomes religion when it tries to understand who is God, how does he work and what we can do to manipulate God (earn his wrath or pleasure).

You are not clear on the difference between belief and rulings/laws of religion. The reason belief exists is because science is inadequate to prove it. As we progress technologically, we have seen things in Islam that the muslims 1400 years ago assimilated into their belief has been proven correct and some still remain to be proven. Issues such as polygamy, hudood, interest, blood-money, eye for an eye, etc are behavioral aspects and laws not beliefs. People often when arguing about Islamic belief bring all this into the discussion. The point is how truth has been discovered to reinforce your belief in God.

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

Good one...........Point Taken !!

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

MAY these will be rectified in the newer version of the Quran.....and yet again Quran will never contradict itself.

Countdown to Khumar's 45,000 post!
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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

i believe what you are trying to say here is that science and religion have separate territories..what is called non-overlapping magisterata. that is not true however. people often believe that religion concerns itself with morality, spirituality etc. yet when we think of it religion, and for that matter God, intrudes into a lot of scientific matters. for example,we know that we will burn our hand if we put it in fire. religion tells us that for some people it could go cold. science and common observation tells us that we will drown if there is enough water. yet religion tells us that there were people in the past who were able to walk on water. in short, every time a miracle is performed it gets into the realm of science and thus we can not say that religion and science belong in two separate territories.
so far as morality is concerned it has nothing to do with religion. you will see many people who are atheists who are morally upright, and many believers who aint so. morality has nothing to do with religion or god. it has to do with the person's grooming and innner self. in fact they both are independent of each other.

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Belief in God is innate and it exists in many forms. Irrespective of what superficial form people may have of God deep down it boils down to the same truth for the religious and scientists alike, someone created everything you see and set the laws that govern it naturally. Science is the study of how things works and once that is understood how we can manipulate it, put simply. Science becomes religion when it tries to understand who is God, how does he work and what we can do to manipulate God (earn his wrath or pleasure).
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i dont think scientists believe in that proposition that someone created this world. they believe that believers have taken this thing to be a default..that if we do not have the reason to why something would have happened, then it must have been done by God. there is a reason why people do that. people love short cuts. why bother looking for an answer when we can have a short cut answer i.e. God.

[quote]

You are not clear on the difference between belief and rulings/laws of religion. The reason belief exists is because science is inadequate to prove it. As we progress technologically, we have seen things in Islam that the muslims 1400 years ago assimilated into their belief has been proven correct and some still remain to be proven. Issues such as polygamy, hudood, interest, blood-money, eye for an eye, etc are behavioral aspects and laws not beliefs. People often when arguing about Islamic belief bring all this into the discussion. The point is how truth has been discovered to reinforce your belief in God.
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so what you are essentially saying is that once Science is able to prove those things that are not clear today, then beliefe will go away. the more science advances, the less space belief will have in this world.
i think it needs another thread but could you please give me what is the difference between the two( belief and behavioral aspects). there is a strange thing with believers though. when something gets proven by science( for example, the cleanliness aspect of islam) they present it as proof that their belief is right. when the reverse happens they try to separate belief from that. and that is what you have done here.

Men are hypocrites
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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

I respect those who do not beleive in the theory of evolution........and with those who belive in it but statistically speaking in the last fifty years the number of ppl who believe in the theory of evolution are growing exponetially. If you still don't you son surely will and so on.........so I guess in the next 500 years the religious guys will be the minority unless a new trendy religion evolves and attracts ppl to it.

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

Salam jaanan,

Are you ok for heavens sake why are you giving me unneccessarily gyan of something of which i havent mentioned. Jannan and other thing in that case Aristotle also proved so many things right but yo uhave to analyse and not pass comments blindly.

It might happen one or two things are divine but there might be others theyare contradicting, now how about that i dont wanna raise this topic of which religion is authentic or not, but i am surprise for your concerns towards me for something i havent even bothered to quote.

ONE LAST THING THOUGH I MIGHT NOT BELIEVE IN OTHER RELIGIONS BUT GET THIS IN YOUR HEAD I AM TOLERANT TOWARDS THEM I DONT GET INTO MUDSLINGING AND FORM PERSONAL OPINIONS

Today or Tomorrow?
Today or Tomorrow?
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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

Religion and science have different implications and intents. Sciences have nothing to do with a persons afterlife (that is if you are among those who believe in afterlife). The sphere of science is limited to the living and what affects them during the course of this life and the life of others (past, present and future). Yes, at some point an intersection happens and that has long been evidence that many religions were divinely revealed because knowledge at the times when these religions came to advent could not have highlighted such scientific phenomenon. This is no way means that religion and sciences are replacements of one another as many people think (this is my opinion and my understanding on my religion as well).

Miracles are things that defy normal scientific phenomenon. They are only miraculous because when they were performd there were no means to perform it. This is a testament that those individuals were aided by someone capable of bending scientific phenomenon and manipulate it. However there is a key difference though, you might contemplate that many of those miraculous things can be performed today but then anyone could do it today. It wouldn't be miraculous anymore. Your very statement that God intrudes into natural or scientific phenomenon inherently means that he has knowledge to manipulate the natural laws of the universe. He did it when we knew nothing about it and if he were to do it again it would still be at a level where we would know nothing about it.

I don't think I meant to say that morality is propritary to religion. It is not. Salvation is proprietary to religion though. The distinguishing factor between most religions is a certain belief which ensures salvation or a legitimate chance at it.

There are many scientists (famous or not) and many atheists who have concended their beliefs to honor the notion of God or a supreme creator. Then there are certainly those who do or are not willing to concede but such people have no answers to the questions of how things came about, they just stand tall on theories but no facts, just observations which lend some credence to their theories. And you wouldn't be wrong if you said believers in certain religions do the same, just that each group concludes something different.

No I am not saying that if science proves something that belief will go away. Infact it will be a testament to the veracity of a scripture. When our religious scriptures were revealed, for the ones believing in them it was a matter of belief to testify what was in them was true but they had the privilege and advantage of witnessing miracles and the presence of prophets among them. We do not have that privilege so we lean towards the miraculous nature of the scriptures we have and history, to be honest about it and somewhat instinct. So when science proves things correct in our scripture, it does not mean that belief is on its way out, what it means is that our belief in the veracity of the scripture and its message is reinforced. The fulcrum of our belief is different than that of the people 1400 years ago, there amazement was not necessarily about the scientific facts mentioned in the scripture because they did not have enough knowledge to understand it but rather about how they witnessed miracles and prophethood. We today are amazed at how such scientific facts could have been known to illerate people 1400 years ago when we are just starting to discover things around us. So we are still witnessing miracles but of a very different nature. Either way, us today or those people 1400 years ago, witness something that brings truth to our belief.

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

How do you get a newer Quran? I thought the Quran can never change? Isn't it the one and only Word of God, or is that the Bible? Or the Talmud? Or The Book of Mormon?

Looks like God has a few one and only words.

Perhaps it's not possible for the Quran to contradict itself, but it is possible for it to contradict science.

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

Correction. There were no visible means to perform it. We can't see the way magicians work, but they're not bending the laws of nature when they chop a woman in half and put her back together.

You say theory as if it's somehow wrong. Yet creation is just as much a theory as evolution. Neither can be proven. Creation is "proven" by different books claiming to be written by a god. Evolution can be "proven" by a science textbook. It's just different belief systems, both sides are "stand tall on theories but no facts".

What miracles are we witnessing?

You're saying it's a miracle that people 1400 years ago knew things we didn't and that means they were witnessing miracles. No it doesn't.

The Mayans made an extraordinarily complex and accurate calendar long before any Indo-European civilizations did, does that mean it's a miracle, and the Jaguar God or whatever they worshiped is the true God? I doubt it.

No one has been able to duplicate or explain the perfection of the Pyramids in Egypt. Does that mean Ra performed miracles of guidance for the Egyptians, and thus is the one true God?

No one knows how Stonehenge was built. Does that mean it was a miracle performed by the Druids' prophets, and thus their God is the one true God?

Because we can't explain something does not mean it's a divine miracle, and proves the existence of superhuman beings. It simply means we can't explain it.

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

Peace worshipyourself, i will be answering instead of brother USR though i know whats happening around in this thread let me go ahead with the rebuttal.

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Correction. There were no visible means to perform it. We can't see the way magicians work, but they're not bending the laws of nature when they chop a woman in half and put her back together.

[/quote]

There is a difference between a miracle and magic. If we argue on these two words we have to rather look into a dictionary. With respect to miracles and science its outright stupid to compare this two. Infact the splitting of a sea, miraculous nature of the Quran, the miracles of Jesus is something which science cannot prove (obviously the creation which its accepting now as there is some mighty creator to have created this universe will come to this topic later on)

I mean all these things come into the ambiguous part of any human being, as this cannot be comprehended but rather abstract.

Firstly we have to understand scientists are eliminating models of god and not God. (God in this case is a cosmic power, super power,creator)

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You say theory as if it's somehow wrong. Yet creation is just as much a theory as evolution. Neither can be proven. Creation is "proven" by different books claiming to be written by a god. Evolution can be "proven" by a science textbook. It's just different belief systems, both sides are "stand tall on theories but no facts".
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I dont agree with you,

The big bang theory is proven today to be a fact though some more studies are going on both the sides to prove it wrong.Infact i can atleast go ahead with the list to prove that CREATION theory (using the conflicting approach though can be proven its a fact) and Evolution theory (concordist apprach though its still a theory).

I had also asked earlier asked in this thread the creation of amino acids and subsequentyl proteins no one dare to answer that. This process of amino acids is enough to stand tall to debunk the evolution theory.

The creation of amino acids happened during the time of creation as this is the most important factor for any living being and creation of one cell of such amino acids takes thousands of years, subsequently 1 protein has to be created takes thousands of more years. Believe me the age of earth calculated by the scientists will fall short if we compare it with the creation of the protiens.

Though amino acids are created but still they have to be perfectly designed to fit the criteria of the cell i.e. they should be only left hand amino acids the probability is again higher this itself can debunk the evolution theory, because till date evolutionists just to prove themself tried to create amino acids but have failed the best e.g. of Taylor in 1959 though initially fooled the world.

I had to give a small description of this to provide with some information of the process of creation now this is a fact and not a theory. The evolutionists fail to answer the concept of digestive system in a human being(I hope you get my drift, well its a hunch)

The evolutionists biased paleontologists (though all are evolutionist but most have them have backed away) have been trying to prove hard the cause of Evolution but unfortunately they have not yet connected the dots, but its been debunked starting from 21st century.

Now basically here comes a barrier between CREATION AND EVOLUTION, most of teh scientists after studying universe have concluded that there is some superpower because of the facts mentioned above one of them is the creation of amino acids and proteins.

Well, i dont say these theories, fictional stuff but they are facts.

[quote]

What miracles are we witnessing?

You're saying it's a miracle that people 1400 years ago knew things we didn't and that means they were witnessing miracles. No it doesn't.

[/quote]

Worshipyourself, you have got USR wrong he is talking about the Quran if you say its not miraculous then i ask you to come up with the CHALLENGE if you can please accept it and prove it wrong.

Now he is quoting some verses in the Quran which are scientific in nature (for muslims it hardly bothers as we accept this is the word of GOD).

Those versus though talk about creation of embryo, universe, water cycle are miraculous and we are witnessing after 1,400 years.

Well, you can now talk about Aristotle and other great philosophers well if we only take scientific facts and not theories most of the theories have been proven false. But till date any scientific fact hasnt contradicted the Quran.

Though it hardly bothers a muslim, but this is where the miraculous nature of the Quran is i will quote you one e.g.

To prove the miracles of prophet moses/prophet jesus i have to get back hundreds of years but since this history is recorded in the Quran and Quran on so many accounts of scientific facts is proven right i call it eternal because i dont have to go back 1400 years to prove the Quran and prophet mohammed existed or not.

This itself is a witness now this is what USR mentioned.

[quote]
The Mayans made an extraordinarily complex and accurate calendar long before any Indo-European civilizations did, does that mean it's a miracle, and the Jaguar God or whatever they worshiped is the true God? I doubt it.
[/quote]

Now what is this got to with miracle i still feel you ahve lost the plot and not pondering what a miracle is. Those are not miracles but civilizations.

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No one has been able to duplicate or explain the perfection of the Pyramids in Egypt. Does that mean Ra performed miracles of guidance for the Egyptians, and thus is the one true God
[/quote]

Are you sure about this i have my friend in my own company who explains the the concept of pyramids. Your example is same as no one else is builth a taj mahal, great wall of china, eiffer tower.

Again you are missing on the plot of miracle its a supernatural act what you have said can be perceived by a human being but not a miracle.

It can be produced again, but can we produce another Quran i infact challenge you in english.

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No one knows how Stonehenge was built. Does that mean it was a miracle performed by the Druids' prophets, and thus their God is the one true God?
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Again how stone age was built are these miracles you are concked for sure if these are miracles then we can quote each and everything as miracle me standign up is a miracle, sitting down.

With your concept if i dont explain to you the making of Pyramids/Taj mahal than its a miracle great and its by one True God so you say they are false gods as well.

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Because we can't explain something does not mean it's a divine miracle, and proves the existence of superhuman beings. It simply means we can't explain it.
[/quote]

Now you have got this right here, you cant explain it forget explaining it let us perceive it first, well you forgot USR has mentioned our belief .

Now let me use the concordist approach you spoke about Stone Age, Pyramids and i agree with you regarding these things are unexplained but still you ahve to get thousands of years but with the Quran its right in front of you to ponder over.

041.053 *
**SHAKIR:* We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things?

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

On one hand you are using science to prove your point and on the other hand you are using phrases like "inner self". How would you define "inner self" through science? In a bigger perspective, what is the scientific justification of morality?

For me, morality has everything to do with religion. There is no scientific basis of morality.

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

That one's already proven to be a phony. We are way ahead of ourselves.

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

So true....

Salman! or could it be anyone
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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

:salam:

JAK SOV for filling in some blanks for me.

Miracles and magic or illusions are different things. Miracles not only defy supernatural phenomenon but require the instigation of a personality. The miracles performed by the prophets were not random occurences during time but were performed at will by them i.e. Moses PBUH parting the sea, Jesus PBUH waking the dead, healing lepers, restoring eyesight to the blind, Muhammad PBUH augmenting food and water, throwing a handful of dust into the eyes of an army of ten thousand, revealing to people what they had discussed in private etc. Ofcourse if some natural phenomenon was defied it would definitely have some form of process or natural explanation but the point is that they were no tricks or illusions they were things people actually physically felt happen and at will.

Creation is much more plausible than evolution. Evolution has fallen face flat on every test. From Amino acids, to intermediate fossils, to blood clotting, to etc etc. The premise of evolution is that there was no Godly intervention in initiating things whereas creation eventually means whatever it is that brought us about was initiated or created by God. Even if I were to for arguments sake say that we evolved from single cell organisms then someone obviously created the single cell organisms and the natural laws by which they would be able to compound themselves into complex organisms. So in the end no matter what scientific theory you enroute, it hits a dead end where you have answer other than some supreme power did something for this to get kicked off.

No that is not what I am saying, one of the miracles is that someone revealed these things 1400 years ago which we would discover to be true now. How could a person have been privy to such information given the state of knowledge then.

Having knowledge of something is not same as building something amazing. There is nothing miraculous in building the Pyramids, or great wall of China or the Stonehedge but it is truly astonishing that they labored to do all that. These monuments do not defy any natural phenomenon but are definitely carefully architected.

You first need to understand when we discuss miracle what it means in the context of a religion. Achievements are the same as miracles.

Somewhat true. So can you explain how the prophets were able to perform the miracles they did at will? Lets say for argument they had no divine help, so then how did they perform those feats given the time they were in?

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

malhot do not go so far be honest and let everyone know tht nasa and highly appreciated scintist already declared tht if the sun stop shining for just 2 or 3 minutes the whole galaxy will get destroyed in seconds so wht about progressice science in coming years, can the science and the scientist get survive the galaxy if the same thing happen there is no sun and there is no sunshine and galaxy remain on its place just post your answer after reading your answer i will post my reply and let everyone know wht is the truth tht was and is and will be .....

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Re: In the year 2507 - there will be no religions

I should rephrase it. it has to do a lot with how our bio-chemical system works. you can call that your inner self.
and why should i say that. because your biochemical processes determine the way you act. as a common example, if you are producing a lot of sex hormones you will be horny all the time. if you produce more than enough endorphins then you will feel pleasure from pain.
secondly genetics have to do a lot of things with our personality. scientific studies agree that almost 50% of our personality comes from genes. I am giving you that from a book called freakonomics. if you dont believe me then you can look at the book.
so that is inner self to me.