Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

[samb]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

@Lusi

by the way he has been out of the country before this flood happened. I think it was in July when he had his 1st fundraiser in Seatle. He did not leave the country right after the flood on a so called official trip for iyashee.

so what?

and can you seriously tell me with a straight face that if Zardari was also out of the country PRIOR to the flood coming, he still wouldn't have been blasted like he has been? I'm not even going to defend it. him being out of the country is wrong... if not wrong, it is definitely insensitive.

but lets pretend that he was in the country all along. then he would have been criticized for not leaving the presidential palace. because it's not like he was going to be on front lines unloading relief goods to people. so that wouldn't have worked.

then lets pretend that even if he did go to the front line and helped the people with his own hands, then he would have been criticized for all the protocol and security he would have gotten. so that wouldn't have work either.

then lets pretend that he didn't go to the front line and just donated money/cash to the relief effort, then he would have been mocked for giving too little especially since ALL his wealth is ill-gotten as I'm sure all Pakistanis get copies of all his banking statements. oh wait... that actually happened. he donated 25 lacs and was still equated with the spawn of the devil for doing that.

so, lets get real. there is no way Zardari can win in this country. he is no angel but the amount of propaganda that he been done to cast him as the most evil man alive in Pakistan ensures that anything positive he does goes to waste anyway.

now, never mind that Imran was sunbathing in India when Benazir was assassinated. the whole country was on fire. national leaders were pleading for calm and peace. people were talking about the very integrity of the country being at stake. but Imran was enjoying himself in Mumbai. but you see Imran gets the benefit of the doubt. it's much more fun to write about Zardari doing stupid things and to show pictures of him doing insensitive things. don't want to treat Imran like that.

never mind that Imran during his much celebrated struggle for the judiciary stayed underground all the time in the first round until he was given up to the police by the "student" wing of his own ally - Jamat-e-Islami - after its thugs beat him up, humiliated him and locked him up in a hostel room.

never mind that in the second round of the fight for the judiciary (which he likes to crow about all the time as if he did it singlehandedly), Imran again went underground this time promising to emerge magically somewhere in Islamabad to lead us all to salvation like Jesus Christ. except... Imran never really emerged... until the fight was won.

it's just much more fun to humiliate Zardari than it is to point out any mistake of Imran's. just better optics. sells more papers. TV channels get more ad time channeling all the hatred for Zardari. so lets all keep up the great work.

[TLK]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

so what?

and can you seriously tell me with a straight face that if Zardari was also out of the country PRIOR to the flood coming, he still wouldn't have been blasted like he has been? .

dude, you seriously cannot compare the responsibilities of Imran and Zardari when it comes to taking care of disasters and being there for the people. Imran is chief of a very small party, Zardari is the president of Pakistan. Come on man, be fair.

[samb]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

@Muzna

seriously is that the best that you can do? throwing tit for tat comments? how petty. Imran is fundraising out of Pakistan right now. I met with him Sunday, yesterday and spoke with him before he boarded his flight to leave Toronto today. He thought of cancelling his trip but was advised that he could do more for the country by fundraising (both for the flood victims and the numerous medical facilities that he founded) abroad and

good for him. always admired him for all his charity work. how can you be a Pakistani and not love him for his philanthropy and all that he's done for the country.

[quote]
seeking membership for his party in order to bring about the greater good.
[/quote]

so, do you think this was the right time for him to be seeking new members for his party? isn't that the kind of thing that Zardari was being blasted for? making a trip for his own political gains?

was it the right time for him to be signing up new members or was it the right time for him to drop the political nonsense and just raise funds? I mean after all he is much better than Zardari as a person, is he not. so, he should be held to a higher standard, no?

[quote]
The comparison of his trip to that of Zardari's is laughable; particularly since Zardari holds office.
[/quote]

Zardari does hold office. but he is not the chief executive. he is the titular head.

anyway, Imran touts himself as a leader on the national level. all national leaders are required to play a role in a crisis like this. Nawaz Sharif was there, Shahbaz Sharif was there, ANP leadership was active, PPP leadership was there bar Zardari, heck even PML-F leaders were in there constituencies.

why wasn't Imran? he is a leader right? shouldn't he have been among his people? oh I see... he was raising funds for the victims.

but Zardari also claims that he was seeking funds from other states for the relief effort. so, not much of a difference between Zardari and Imran as far as I can see.

[quote]
Once you have jumped into the political ring it is impossible to do anything or go anywhere without being asked to provide your political opinion.
[/quote]

at times, people must rise about petty political gains and think on a higher plane. if Imran can't do that, then he has no business going around with the holier than thou attitude.

[quote]
During the fund-raising lunch yesterday he was repeatedly dragged into political discussions despite his efforts to remain focused on the hospital and its needs/benefits.
[/quote]

Imran has made a life out of not answering questions he does not want to answer. what compelled him to answer these politically loaded and leading questions this time that always lead to the same kind of answers?

and I thought Imran was the leader here? if someone is asking an inappropriate question given the time and the context of the situation we're in, common sense would demand that Imran excuse himself from making political statements and ask his followers to put the political agenda on the backburner for a while while we push together as a nation for the solution to this crisis.

[NaMaan]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

I don't really see a revolution coming anytime soon . The one I call hard revolution , which includes over throwing the existing government and having someone totally new to govern us . I don't see that one coming at all . The only organization capable of doing so was Pakistan Army , and its too much busy , and badnamed already . The soft revolution will take a long long long time . Nothing less than 30-40 years . The intellectual thought , and level of education needed for that is not present in the country at the moment . May be if we let the democracy prevail , then it might change into soft revolution , but in near future I don't really see a chance .

Imran khan is a honest man , but might not be a good politician . He can be a good leader though if given a chance . So either Imran , or someone else , this country requires that people should start voting for THE CHANGE . But again in recent local elections in Punjab , people elected PML(N) again . Democracy is all about learning from your mistakes , and unfortunately people of Pakistan are not doing so .

[samb]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

dude, you seriously cannot compare the responsibilities of Imran and Zardari when it comes to taking care of disasters and being there for the people. Imran is chief of a very small party, Zardari is the president of Pakistan. Come on man, be fair.

oh bhai, what responsibilities? the guy is not the chief executive is he? Gilani is.

did you expect Zardari to load up relief goods in his car and go from town to town helping the victims? he was going to either donate funds or raise funds. he has done the former and claims to have done the latter as well.

I mean I just don't get it. people hate the guy... believe he is the devil himself. then, they expect of him things that other much beloved leaders aren't even doing.

as far as Imran vs Zardari is concerned. Imran thinks of himself as a national leader at the same level as the heads of major parties like PPP and PML-N. he should be judged with the same scale.

[Reverse_Swing]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

Zardari should also visit flood affected areas and meet with affectees. That is his moral and constitutional responsibility as head of state. If he thinks otherwise then he is not fit to hold public office IMO. I have never seen him visiting FATA and meeting with injured civilians, soldiers and drone affectees or injured victims of terror attacks else-where in the country. Zardari just never leaves the presidency except when he is so itching to go on foreign trips! Imran has no obligation (other than moral) to visit these areas as he does not hold any public office at the moment. He is not even a member of parliament for gods sake. We should all be thankful for what he is doing, working so hard to raise money for his various social projects. The annual running cost of Shaukat Khanum alone is $20-25 million. I am sure he needs to raise something like $50 million annually for his various other social projects...Namal and Shaukat Khanum #2 to name a few. Where is he going to get all this money? Is he going to pump it from his rear end?

[Muzna]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

good for him. always admired him for all his charity work. how can you be a Pakistani and not love him for his philanthropy and all that he's done for the country.

No....not good for him.....good for us. He has done what we all should have banded together to do long ago......good for the nation......good for the needy......good for millions of people that would otherwise have received no treatment.

I'm sure that Imran will benefit from his own good deeds......but likely not until after the day of judgement.

so, do you think this was the right time for him to be seeking new members for his party? isn't that the kind of thing that Zardari was being blasted for? making a trip for his own political gains?

was it the right time for him to be signing up new members or was it the right time for him to drop the political nonsense and just raise funds? I mean after all he is much better than Zardari as a person, is he not. so, he should be held to a higher standard, no?

yes...I do believe that it was the right time for him to be seeking membership.....absolutely.......he was killing three birds with one stone......raising funds for flood victims, raising funds for SKMH and campaigning. I would have been disgusted if he spent money travelling the world ONLY to collect funds.

and exactly what political nonsense are you referring to? be specific......

I am not here discussing who is the better person rather I am questioning who is the better leader for the nation.

Zardari does hold office. but he is not the chief executive. he is the titular head.

typical.....when there is no reply then let's resort to splitting hairs shall we?
let's put aside the nomenclature and deal with what the world understands......for all intents and purposes Zardari is the head of state.

anyway, Imran touts himself as a leader on the national level. all national leaders are required to play a role in a crisis like this. Nawaz Sharif was there, Shahbaz Sharif was there, ANP leadership was active, PPP leadership was there bar Zardari, heck even PML-F leaders were in there constituencies.

why wasn't Imran? he is a leader right? shouldn't he have been among his people? oh I see... he was raising funds for the victims.

but Zardari also claims that he was seeking funds from other states for the relief effort. so, not much of a difference between Zardari and Imran as far as I can see.

Are you suggesting that Imran's party was unrepresented in relief efforts?
And others have answered you well with respect to who holds more responsibility in the org structure so I'm not going to repeat the same material.

at times, people must rise about petty political gains and think on a higher plane. if Imran can't do that, then he has no business going around with the holier than thou attitude.

Imran's social work has taken him to a level above and beyond those that Zardari or NS can ever hope to achieve so let's not even open the giant pandora's box of rising above.

As far as "petty political gains" is concerned, you may consider them to be petty but those that look for transparency, honesty and justice don't agree. And since we touched on "petty" what do you think of Zardari's move to change his son's last name to Bhutto? Perhaps that can be discussed in another thread.

Imran has made a life out of not answering questions he does not want to answer. what compelled him to answer these politically loaded and leading questions this time that always lead to the same kind of answers?

and I thought Imran was the leader here? if someone is asking an inappropriate question given the time and the context of the situation we're in, common sense would demand that Imran excuse himself from making political statements and ask his followers to put the political agenda on the backburner for a while while we push together as a nation for the solution to this crisis.

Please make up your mind.....either you like him to avoid questions or you don't. Per your own ideology you can't blast the man for doing one thing and then blast him again if he decides to do the other. This method doesn't make for a very credible impression.

I for one believe that a leader who will address the questions is to be trusted more than one that will shut down channels to protect his image.

Btw....you sure do use a lot of words to say the same stuff. There really is no need.

[Muzna]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

oh bhai, what responsibilities? the guy is not the chief executive is he? Gilani is.

did you expect Zardari to load up relief goods in his car and go from town to town helping the victims? he was going to either donate funds or raise funds. he has done the former and claims to have done the latter as well.

Have you heard of the captain going down with the ship?

I mean I just don't get it..people hate the guy... believe he is the devil himself.

That much is obvious. And have you heard the saying, "No smoke without fire"?

then, they expect of him things that other much beloved leaders aren't even doing.

Expectations are set through the title/rank that one holds. If a leader does whatever he needs to do (i.e. good and/or bad) to get to power then he must also carry the burden of expectation that comes with that role.

as far as Imran vs Zardari is concerned. Imran thinks of himself as a national leader at the same level as the heads of major parties like PPP and PML-N. he should be judged with the same scale.

None of this is about what Imran thinks of himself.
It is all about what we, the public, think about Imran, Zardari, Nawa Sharif etc, etc.

[Muzna]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

Imran khan is a honest man , but might not be a good politician .

I agree.

He can be a good leader though if given a chance . So either Imran , or someone else , this country requires that people should start voting for THE CHANGE .

But how are we going to give people the tools to ensure that their vote is honestly submitted and counted?

But again in recent local elections in Punjab , people elected PML(N) again .

How do you know that the people elected PML(N)? I don't have any faith in the electoral system as it stands today.

Democracy is all about learning from your mistakes , and unfortunately people of Pakistan are not doing so .

Perhaps true. But we have to consider how much of our population is actually educated and how many actually have control over their vote.

[samb]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

and exactly what political nonsense are you referring to? be specific......

for example, he said something about Zardari deserving the joota he got. now, it might be satisfying for all the people who hate Zardari. but if tomorrow an MQM supporter throws a joota at Imran, will he also accept that since the MQM supporter is only expressing how he feels about Imran?

either we can raise the level of political discourse or we can wallow in the gutter. and if we stay there Imran better not complain when he is on the receiving end.

[quote]
I am not here discussing who is the better person rather I am questioning who is the better leader for the nation.
[/quote]

the guy who can't even lead his own party is going to lead the nation?

this is a guy who can't even attract and keep any reasonable intellectual/political stalwart in his party. his leadership of his party is so shambolic that every decent person who joins his party leaves it eventually. I can think of two off the top of my head - Naseem Zehra (probably the finest journalist in Pak today) and Miraj M. Khan (one of the principled, finer politicians) both of who left PTI because of Imran. Miraj Khan's interview is on youtube. feel free to see what he has to say about Imran the leader.

[quote]
And since we touched on "petty" what do you think of Zardari's move to change his son's last name to Bhutto? Perhaps that can be discussed in another thread.
[/quote]

how is that related to this? if we're going to criticize people for this kind of stuff, there is plenty in Imran's past that is far worse than Zardari renaming his son.

[quote]
Please make up your mind.....either you like him to avoid questions or you don't. Per your own ideology you can't blast the man for doing one thing and then blast him again if he decides to do the other. This method doesn't make for a very credible impression.
[/quote]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. you said that Imran can't escape politics because people drag him into it.

my point is that 1) Imran when he decides he does not want to answer a question, he does NOT. that is his track record. so, why couldn't he avoid the political statements this time if the only reason why he made them because of the people present who forced him to? 2) Imran is supposed to be THE leader here, right? if people ask an inappropriate question or make a stupid comment in the context of today's situation, it is HIS job to put an end to it and diffuse the situation in a reasonable manner.

[quote]
Btw....you sure do use a lot of words to say the same stuff. There really is no need.
[/QUOTE]

fair enough. I just can't resist posting a response to things like Imran saying that all liberal Pakistanis want to bomb anyone who disagrees with them and that suicide bombers in Pakistan are taking rightful revenge, etc. that is a preposterous statement. similarly, I can't help but point out the hypocrisy of Imran conducting a political campaign while abroad at the time of the flood and criticizing Zardari for also being out of the country at the time of the flood.

while we're offering each other helpful and constructive suggestions, I must say that I find it pretty amusing that someone who by her admission doesn't have much knowledge of Pakistani politics is so sure that Imran is the best thing since sliced political bread and Zardari's the devil's spawn. shouldn't you be educating yourself before giving such definitive opinions that I should accept as the gospel? I get it you attended a fundraiser, talked to him, etc. I've attended protests organized by PTI.. a friend is the organizer of one PTI chapter. I considered officially joining it once upon a time until Imran's conspiracy theories and verbal diarrhea regarding the taliban ensured that I would never support him as a politician.

I suggest you read up on Imran's views on terrorism and taliban. and I'm not talking about his recent statements. go back a few years and read all of them. you might not like them all that much and you'll like Imran even less. and you might realize why Imran's party fares so poorly in the polls and why Imran is considered a rightwing nutjob, closet taliban supporter and ardent terrorist apologist.

[clad]

Re: Imran Khan sees people’s revolution looming

Samb Saieen !!!

[samb]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

That much is obvious. And have you heard the saying, "No smoke without fire"?

and have you heard of the pot calling the kettle black?

Imran is a politician. he does not get to criticize Zardari for being out of the country during the flood while he himself is also aboard conducting a political campaign, issuing political statements, signing up new members, etc.

especially when Imran is either conveniently out of the country or goes underground every time there is a crisis in the country. I'm not going to repost the details. please read my reply to Lusi to see what Imran's track record is like.

[Captain1]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

for example, he said something about Zardari deserving the joota he got. now, it might be satisfying for all the people who hate Zardari. but if tomorrow an MQM supporter throws a joota at Imran, will he also accept that since the MQM supporter is only expressing how he feels about Imran?

either we can raise the level of political discourse or we can wallow in the gutter. and if we stay there Imran better not complain when he is on the receiving end.

itni lambi siyaq-o-sabaq/kahani ki zaroorat nahi, the day Imran indulges in corruption like Zardari I will be a critic of him just like I am critic of Zardari. Don't compare apple with sh!t.

[Mc12IT]

Re: Imran Khan sees people’s revolution looming

Samb take a deep breath now and listen to this.

](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWlGXiSZhwM)

[sTaLkEr]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

I've never quite understood this claim of Imran not being a good politician.

So what really constitutes a good politician, and who is a good politician? Nawaz Sharif, Benazir, Zardari etc. -- were they really "good" politicians? They were or are (if alive) pathetic thieves, have looted the nation, yet our people amazingly consider these people and all the others in their coterie/"parties" to be "good" politicians?

I'm sorry, I'm totally lost on this one.

[clad]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

A strong political party , complete team of expert politicians,EXPERTS in negotiating with other parties

He comes on media and start bashing every other party hats off HE ALWAYS talk FACTS but he can never shake hands with any other party.

remember what zardari did with NAWAZ sharif in the beginning of his term , thats what politics is all about.

how many people we know in tahreek-e- Insaaf imran khan kay ilawa ????

As much as I like the Guy I feel its a waste of time talking about him because he can never be the president

[Captain1]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

I've never quite understood this claim of Imran not being a good politician.

So what really constitutes a good politician, and who is a good politician? Nawaz Sharif, Benazir, Zardari etc. -- were they really "good" politicians? They were or are (if alive) pathetic thieves, have looted the nation, yet our people amazingly consider these people and all the others in their coterie/"parties" to be "good" politicians?

I'm sorry, I'm totally lost on this one.

The one who can compromise on any of his view-points, give n take anything to get a ministry, cut deals with criminals/dacoos is a good politician.

[Spock]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

A strong political party , complete team of expert politicians,EXPERTS in negotiating with other parties

He comes on media and start bashing every other party hats off HE ALWAYS talk FACTS but he can never shake hands with any other party.

remember what zardari did with NAWAZ sharif in the beginning of his term , thats what politics is all about.

how many people we know in tahreek-e- Insaaf imran khan kay ilawa ????

As much as I like the Guy I feel its a waste of time talking about him because he can never be the president

Better this way, than to lose one's dignity and form alliances with thugs and criminals.

[Spock]

Re: Imran Khan sees people’s revolution looming

@Mc12IT

Samb take a deep breath now and listen to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWlGXiSZhwM
](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWlGXiSZhwM)

hahaha!! sahee jooota para zardari ko!

[PrinceMS]

Re: Imran Khan sees people's revolution looming

Samb do you live outside of Pakistan?