Chill Out dude.
And learn to accept that people differ in their beleifs. It really makes me wonder how people become flamed at others who do not accept their "faith". Your beleif in Mahdi is "faith", there is no factual evidence that he exists. And faith cannot be shoved down people's throat.
Well, it depends what you mean by 'Factual evidence'. No body is trying to shove anything down somebody elses throat.
Peace Seyyed Naqvi
It seems you have misunderstood. There are two difference Abdullah's one of them is the father of Muhammad (the Mahdi) the other Abdullah is the son of the Mahdi.
So he will be Muhammad ibn Abdullah but his kunya will be Abu Abdullah.
That seems to make sense. But I was talking about his actual dad. Who will he be? How many generations down from 'The Imams' will he descend? Will his Lineage be 'PURE', so to speak. Will ALL of his predecesors be Imams, or just some of them?
How far up the line do we go, before we turn left, or right? Is mankind keeping track, or not?
Ultimately, if each family has a 'head', and Mohammed was the 'head' of his family, when he left this world, who took up his position as 'The Head of The Family', and if his family still exists, who is 'The Head' of it now?
Let's start with the first question. Who became the head of the last Prophet's family once he passed away?
Salaam Brother. Thanks for the link. Looks like interesting reading. I’m perplexed by the idea that the followers of Goharshahi believed him to be The Mahdi, and then he died so he went into occultation like The Twelfth Imam, leaving the world in a mess. Is this what the world had been waiting for over one thousand four hundred years AFTER the Shahadat of Imam Hussain? Is this the ultimate reward for the sacrifice of Imam Hussains family in Karbala? Where’s the justice? On You Tube he claims that Jesus spoke to him in Urdu, but he needed an English translator so he could tell the story on an American Radio station. How many more false Mahdis will ‘The Ummah’ come up with?
My point is that the importance of The Prophet Mohjammed’s family from whom The Mahdi descends had been overidden by the system of khilaafat for which Abu Bakr was the first in taking up it’s seat.
The Last battle orders of Mohammed, two days before he died, was to send the The Sahabah, inclusive of Abu Bakr and Umar, with the the Young Usama, to the edges of the empire to wage Jihad against the Romans.
That is where they should have been. But they waited until The Prophet died and went afterwards.
Why?
How many generations down from 'The Imams' will he descend? Will his Lineage be 'PURE', so to speak. Will ALL of his predecesors be Imams, or just some of them?
How far up the line do we go, before we turn left, or right? Is mankind keeping track, or not?
This is a very important point you raised for only those who "think". You are very right, there are a lots false claimant of linage of Prophet's family arround. If it is not known, who will have the authority to decide which one is correct. Alhumdullaah we know. but those people who dont know about the one who will come later on. whether he belong to the right linage or the wrong one. very easy to get astray. Really a good point you raised, i never thought about it. thx
Re: Imam Mehdi is here???
^I dunno why i keep getting drawn into such conjectural useless argument but , anyhow...
Was the best of humans Prophet Mohammad pbuh had a lineage of "infallibles", was he offspring of Imam, or his father was offspring of an Imam? So this "philosophy" of pure lineage that has desecnded upon you is really flawed, and by the way i don't think any Mahdi is coming.
From the Desk of the Representative of His Holiness Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi Mohammad Younus AlGohar
Food for Thought! For the despondent General Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan
Dear President General Pervez Musharraf,
I write to you again to save you from any calamity from the dark-horses of Pakistani Black sheep.
Ms Benezir Bhutto is a pragmatic, liberal and democratically literate person. She praised and favoured your stand on the Red Mosque ordeal also. You may trust her on many issues relating to terrorism, restoration of democracy and liberal image of Pakistan in the south east region.
Ms Benezir Bhutto could be a good candidate for restoration of democracy and power-sharing in Pakistan, but Nawaz Sharif is a traitor and an Al-Qaeda puppet.
Nawaz Sharif is a traitor Nawaz Sharif jeopardised Pakistan’s army Chief’s life when he wanted to land on Pakistani soil, but Nawaz Sharif denied the General to enter His Own country! Had the General Pervez Musharraf flown to another destination other than Pakistan, Pakistan would have been publicly disgraced in the International Community!
Nawaz Sharif is responsible for strengthening Al-Qaeda in Pakistan. He is a pro-Taliban Wahabi.
His Holiness Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi topples up Nawaz Sharif regime without much ado!
In the year 1999, His Divine Grace Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi warned him that His Holiness would exercise His Spiritual powers to topple up his regime without much ado if he didn’t stop persecution against His Holiness Ra Gohar Shahi. However, Nawaz Sharif continued to persecute His Holiness Ra Gohar Shahi, and he became party to Wahabi’s extremists in Pakistan who ran a fierce campaign of hatred and disinformation against His Holiness. The History reveals that His Holiness Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi exercised His Spiritual Powers, and General Pervez Musharraf became an instrumental to overthrow Nawaz Sharif regime in a bloodless military coup on 12 October 1999.
Dear president, His Holiness Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi postponed his movement against the Police establishment just to give you a sense of relief, and His Holiness favoured you.
I would like to inform you that some elements in Pakistan are against your regime and they want to remove you from power. They are not sincere with the country. Nawaz Sharif had nearly got you killed, only if God didn’t save you! Such a traitor and a merciless human being must not be allowed to reign over Pakistan. You however, share the power with Benezir Bhutto, she is a gentleperson. And her thoughts are very similar to your thoughts.
May I suggest that?
You must not quit the uniform, and You must not resign as an army chief You must not allow Nawaz Sharif to enter Pakistan You must not trust the Chief Justice of Pakistan, because he is working on the agenda of the Islamists in Pakistan.
Yours truly
His Holiness Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi’s Representative Mohammad Younus AlGohar London UK
Your politics don't mean Jack *. Goharshahi's dead and buried and you know it. Now you claim to be the reprasentative of The Hidden Imam. Tell me how to teach spirituality to Isreali ****s trying to steal Lebanese Land. What was Mr Shahi doing for the Palestinian cause, after having been born 1400 years after the death of Imam Hussain in Karbala, the great saviour of Humanity came and saw Jesus in a Hotel room, died in UK of Pneumonia, and now the world is infected with swine flu along with aids and every other kind of disease.
He's had his chance, he's come and gone, please don't expect the world to wait for that hopeless excuse of 'Saviour' to come back again.
Seems like the Muslim Ummah is still having to pay for the mistake of making Yazid their Caliph through people like you. The Hidden Representative of The Imam. Bravo.
^I dunno why i keep getting drawn into such conjectural useless argument but , anyhow... Was the best of humans Prophet Mohammad pbuh had a lineage of "infallibles", was he offspring of Imam, or his father was offspring of an Imam? So this "philosophy" of pure lineage that has desecnded upon you is really flawed, and by the way i don't think any Mahdi is coming.
He (The Last Prophet) was the offspring of an Imam, The Prophet Abraham to be precise whom The Qur'an testifies for. (Surely, We have made you an Imam of men). If you don't think the sacrifice of Imam Hussain was a pure sacrifice in the Quranic sense, then you can do away with the obvious parallel between 'the ransomed sacrifice' that the Quran talks about in regard To Ibrahim and Ismaeel.
Your whole hajj is based around the movements and events in the Life of Abraham, the Prophet of God, and The analogy to that in the Modern Prophetic sense is to Mohammed and his family, IF you care to take note of the 'Durood Shareef' within your own Salaat.
So, if you fail to ponder upon the obvious reality then your own concept of purity in the form of 'Islamic Personalities' are concerned is also 'flawed' and you have not fully grasped or put into perspective the time honoured teachings as per narrations from The Qur'an in relation to 'family' and 'prophet'.
All jewish people are children of Hazrat Yaqoob AS that is why they are called Bani Israel - Children of Israel & Israel was the title name given to Hazrat Yaqoob AS,
In the holy Quran the only person from amongst the Makkan that was condemned by his name was Abu-Lahab...., what was his relation to our holy prophet we all know.
I think we should realize the status of Sacred linage is one of the fundamental theological difference b/w the two major sects in Islam.., a difference that has existed for over 1300 years.., rather then debating or trying to proove which belief is more correct, we should accept the difference & try to find common ground on so many other shared aspects of our faith & beliefs
Re: Imam Mehdi is here???
On a completely separate note...
For all those who believe in the second coming of Jesus PBUH & Imam Mehdi (btw: i also hold this belief - but would not want to debate or try to prove it to anyone)
My question is when Jesus PBUH will return or when the Mehdi will emerge.., do you think majority of the Muslim Ummah accept their claim...
The jews had been waiting for their Massiah for centuries & when the actual Massiah came.., they as a nation rejected him & in their own delusion got him Murdered (as per our belief it was their illusion), the situation is still vacant & they are still awaiting their Massiah.
Similarly there are prophecies regarding our Holy Prophet PBUH in their holy books but when our holy Prophet PBUH came they did not accepted him...
He (The Last Prophet) was the offspring of an Imam, The Prophet Abraham to be precise whom The Qur'an testifies for. (Surely, We have made you an Imam of men). If you don't think the sacrifice of Imam Hussain was a pure sacrifice in the Quranic sense, then you can do away with the obvious parallel between 'the ransomed sacrifice' that the Quran talks about in regard To Ibrahim and Ismaeel.
Your whole hajj is based around the movements and events in the Life of Abraham, the Prophet of God, and The analogy to that in the Modern Prophetic sense is to Mohammed and his family, IF you care to take note of the 'Durood Shareef' within your own Salaat.
So, if you fail to ponder upon the obvious reality then your own concept of purity in the form of 'Islamic Personalities' are concerned is also 'flawed' and you have not fully grasped or put into perspective the time honoured teachings as per narrations from The Qur'an in relation to 'family' and 'prophet'.
There were lots and lots of generations between Prophet Ibrahim and Prophet pbuh, so by that standard then any Fatimi can have a claim of being Mahdi, doesn't have to be direct off spring of previous Imam.
There were lots and lots of generations between Prophet Ibrahim and Prophet pbuh, so by that standard then any Fatimi can have a claim of being Mahdi, doesn't have to be direct off spring of previous Imam.
Hoorah. You've used the word Fatimi. What WAS Abu Bakr's relationship to Fatema tu Zahra if nothing but a hinderance to the accession of her bloodline that would surmise as 'The Mahdi'?
There are many Seyyed's who can prove their direct lineage to a 'Fatimi Imam' as it were.
Are you saying that it is not necessary for them to be Syed, or what?
There needs to be some clarity here. Did Mohammed the last Prophet of God explicitly ask for Abu Bakr to stay at his deathbed and get ready to be voted in as Caliph by a handful of Arabs after his death so that he could become the 1st Caliph?
Alternatively, did he specifically state the he should leave Madina and wage Jihad under the commander general Osama? Furthermore, if Osama is leading Abu Bakr and Usman into battle then doesn't he have more right to lead The Muslim Ummah after Mohammed's death than Abu Bakr?
Furthermore if The Mahdi is to Lead the purified infallible Prophet Jesus in prayer on the day that he takes reign over the Human race as it were, then does it not stand to reason that his predecessors before him ie The Imams have the same God given right of leadership as he does?
Why didn't Fatema and Ali accept The Khilafat of Abu Bakr (for a period of a complete 6 months according to authentic Sunni Sources)?
Isn't it the fact, that in reality, the 1st 'Khalifa' is Imam Ali, the 2nd is Imam Hassan and the 3rd IS Imam Hussain, The 'ransomed' sacrifice of Ismaeel?
The Prophet Mohammed said that there will be 12 Caliphs after me to lead the human race, and all of them will be from Quraysh. I've given you the names of the 1st three. Who do you think the rest are?
I think we should realize the status of Sacred linage is one of the fundamental theological difference b/w the two major sects in Islam.., a difference that has existed for over 1300 years.., rather then debating or trying to proove which belief is more correct, we should accept the difference & try to find common ground on so many other shared aspects of our faith & beliefs
you are right:
we should
(1) accept the difference
(2) try to find the common grounds
and there is another thing we should not forget
(3) we should try to understand what the other sect is saying.
most of the people in other sect even dont understand what shias are saying.
they think that shia give importance to "the linage". actually its not.
Shias give importance to "Naas".
example: Shias accept him as an imam; not because of "he is son of". He is imam because there is a Naas for him. that is it.
On a completely separate note... For all those who believe in the second coming of Jesus PBUH & Imam Mehdi (btw: i also hold this belief - but would not want to debate or try to prove it to anyone) My question is when Jesus PBUH will return or when the Mehdi will emerge.., do you think majority of the Muslim Ummah accept their claim... The jews had been waiting for their Massiah for centuries & when the actual Massiah came.., they as a nation rejected him & in their own delusion got him Murdered (as per our belief it was their illusion), the situation is still vacant & they are still awaiting their Massiah. Similarly there are prophecies regarding our Holy Prophet PBUH in their holy books but when our holy Prophet PBUH came they did not accepted him...
In this situation; we have certain responsiblities, there are some prayer to offer: some of them are as follows:
There were lots and lots of generations between Prophet Ibrahim and Prophet pbuh, so by that standard then any Fatimi can have a claim of being Mahdi, doesn't have to be direct off spring of previous Imam.
[2:128] Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.
[2:129] Our Lord! and raise up in them a Messenger from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.
DD, we believe that there was continuity of 'guides' between Ismail (as) and our Prophet (as). Before our Prophet (saww), we find his his grandfather Abdul Muttalib (as) (leader of Quraysh at the time of event of 'Feel' mentioned in the Quran) and before Abdul Muttalib (as), there were others like Hashim, Abd Manaf etc. I suggest you read the history of the ancestors of our Prophet (saww) in the light of Sura Al Baqarah, particularly verses 120 or so onwards and ponder/research on the topic.
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The Prophet Mohammed said that there will be 12 Caliphs after me to lead the human race, and all of them will be from Quraysh. I've given you the names of the 1st three. Who do you think the rest are?
Just to add to Brother Naqvi and the sytem of the khilafat. The Quraishis plainly denied the Prophet’s nominating or willing any for his succession. The Prophet’s saying about the 'successors belonging to Quraysh' was used by Abu Bakr and Umar at the Saqifa to justify Quraysh's monopoly over the successorship of the Prophet (saww). By doing this, they sidelined the Ansar from Khilafat (who were by far more meritorious than the other clans in this affair). They promised Ansars viziership, which never really came. Banu Hashim were pushed to a corner for a reason that the Quraysh did not "like" the khilafat being in the same house as the Nabuwat!!
They promised Ansars viziership, which never really came.
did they really promised? i never noticed it. i will check.
Re: Imam Mehdi is here???
^Try the account given in the Tarikh Al Tabari. This is also mentioned in the following book:Restatement of History of Islam and Muslims by Seyyed Ali Asghar Rizvi.
Interestingly, Al-Albani who was a Wahabhi sheikh tries to prove a similar system of the Khilafat, where the masnad e khilafat should go to the Quraishis, judiciary should go to the Ansars, and solicitation should be to the Abyssinian (in his opinion this is what the Prophet SAWW had intended).
Hoorah. You've used the word Fatimi. What WAS Abu Bakr's relationship to Fatema tu Zahra if nothing but a hinderance to the accession of her bloodline that would surmise as 'The Mahdi'?
There are many Seyyed's who can prove their direct lineage to a 'Fatimi Imam' as it were.
Are you saying that it is not necessary for them to be Syed, or what?
There needs to be some clarity here. Did Mohammed the last Prophet of God explicitly ask for Abu Bakr to stay at his deathbed and get ready to be voted in as Caliph by a handful of Arabs after his death so that he could become the 1st Caliph?
Alternatively, did he specifically state the he should leave Madina and wage Jihad under the commander general Osama? Furthermore, if Osama is leading Abu Bakr and Usman into battle then doesn't he have more right to lead The Muslim Ummah after Mohammed's death than Abu Bakr?
Furthermore if The Mahdi is to Lead the purified infallible Prophet Jesus in prayer on the day that he takes reign over the Human race as it were, then does it not stand to reason that his predecessors before him ie The Imams have the same God given right of leadership as he does?
Why didn't Fatema and Ali accept The Khilafat of Abu Bakr (for a period of a complete 6 months according to authentic Sunni Sources)?
Isn't it the fact, that in reality, the 1st 'Khalifa' is Imam Ali, the 2nd is Imam Hassan and the 3rd IS Imam Hussain, The 'ransomed' sacrifice of Ismaeel?
The Prophet Mohammed said that there will be 12 Caliphs after me to lead the human race, and all of them will be from Quraysh. I've given you the names of the 1st three. Who do you think the rest are?
Dude, you seem to have a lot of time at your disposal with a limited vocabulary, with some words just keep jumping from up, down and bottom in your every post, like khilafat, yazid, muawiya, saqifa, ghadir etc without any relevance to the topic at hand.
Learn to be specific and to the point.
"Fatimi" is term used for sons of Ali and Fatima ra, "Alawi" for descendants of Ali ra from other wives.
I am sure taht you have never read the 12 Caliph narration yourself, it appears in Sunan Abi Dawood ( a very late book) and the first narrator did not even hear the word 'Qureishi' from Prophet pbuh, he says that then Prophet pbuh said something, that i did not hear, i asked by father and he said, all of them will belong to Qureish.
And the other bolt to your theory is that same narration says that they "the whole community will agree upon them", obviously the whole community does not agree in your list of 12, even the shia of Ali do not agree on 12, hence you people are called 12ers.
So plz stay on topic, and do some reading yourself, rather than relying on zakirs and Mullahs who take money to deliver you sermons. By the way here is the full Hadith
Narrated Jabir ibn Samurah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The religion will continue to be established till there are twelve caliphs over you, and the whole community will agree on each of them. I then heard from the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) some remarks which I could not understand. I asked my father: What is he saying: He said: all of them will belong to Quraysh.
By the way, i don't beleive any Mahdi is coming, me, you and countless generations will come and die and no Mahdi will come.
[2:128] Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. [2:129] Our Lord! and raise up in them a Messenger from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.
DD, we believe that there was continuity of 'guides' between Ismail (as) and our Prophet (as). Before our Prophet (saww), we find his his grandfather Abdul Muttalib (as) (leader of Quraysh at the time of event of 'Feel' mentioned in the Quran) and before Abdul Muttalib (as), there were others like Hashim, Abd Manaf etc. I suggest you read the history of the ancestors of our Prophet (saww) in the light of Sura Al Baqarah, particularly verses 120 or so onwards and ponder/research on the topic.
Now thats something new to me, are you saying that Abdul Muttalib and Abu Talib were Imams??????
As for the verse, the first says that promised messenger will be among offsprings of Ibrahim a.s while "among them" in second verse, i dunno what exactly are you implying from it.