They sacrificed their homes, families and everything else they had for Pakistan in 1947. They will do the same if there is a war again.
By the way Madhanee since you will be on what ever side that sikhs will be then you might end up with a delemma. Do you know that the sikhs in Pakistan requested Musharraf that they wanted to join Pakistan army and sooner or later there will be a sikh regiment in Pakistan also. During the Kargil war there was a demonstration in Lahore and after that they decided that they want to join Pakistan military to defend their homeland against any invasion.
And sooner or later all the money that is being put in by sikhs that are settled in Canada and England might come in handy and they might even restart the war of independance. I know it seems too far fetched, but it happened before and it might happen again.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bitter: *
is 'Indian Muslims avoid Indian Army' your conclusion from the fact that the percentage is less? Then that basis is my dear utterly wrong...you might not find muslims in the Indian bureacracy commensurate to their percentage - so they do not want to join the government as well? less representation is nothing to do with Indian Muslims not wanting to join army..their might be many reasons - less education,family businesses etc etc - le
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I could not have said it better than you myself. That is what i want to say. Muslims are underrepresented in the government, bureacracy and the army. I can see only two reasons for it. Either muslims have no interest in that country or there is discrimination. But India is a secular country with awesome record of minorities. SO it cannot be discrimination. So i would say it is that muslims have no interest in that country. Now i know i am a little exagerrating it. I am in no way saying that Indian muslims love Pakistan.
Smell the Biryani MiaN… have you heard what Brother Altaf Hussain wants? There are as many Muslims in India as Pakistan, and Bengalis also wanted Pakistan but realized that it wasn’t for them. Sometimes it takes a little time for people to come to senses. All you jerks want is to talk about War. What about peace? Let India live in peace, concentrate on killing Shias, Christians and Ahmadis in Pakistan before dreaming of Kashmir… you want to make another Bangladesh of Pakistan?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
If those Indian Muslims are truly innocent, then as innocent victims of a jihad, inshallah they'll be martyrs and be rewarded greatly in the next life.
[/QUOTE]
hear hear!
here in lies the solution to the palestinian and kashmir issue. if innocents die, they will be rewarded greatly in the next life.
Specially after the Gujrat riots and destruction of Babri mosque, the muslims of India have realized their place. They are as patriotic as ever. As far as talking about war is concerned, I definitely want peace, but unfortunately its your peace loving military that always start building military on the border and derailing the peace process. And also it was not me who started the topic. I think it was some Indian with probably some insecurities.
And we have all seen the peace that India is living in. I know its always Pakistan that causes disturbance in india because India is the biggest democracy in the world and the true face of secularism.
Madhanee you never told me whether you would hold this flag for real that you always show up with if we have the first sikh regiment in Pakistan army.
On a side note i am just waiting for Aejaz bhai to come into this discussion. And Some1 can you please give us your predicted result of the Pakistan Australia test series. YOu are soo accurate sometimes that once i checked the time you posted your prediction to make sure that you didnt post it after the game was over.
Proudpakistani, tell me what is your problem? You are twisting from % ratio to discrimination to non patriotism of Indian Muslims.
Can you tell us what answer you want? I promise to copy and paste it to appease you.
It will be much sincere to discuss the problems of Indian Muslims. I think the first problem is that majority of Indian Muslims do not want to come out of dark ages like in any other Islamic or non-Islamic country, though they have learnt a lot from the secular tendencies of Hindus.
For example not a single Indian Muslim was found among Talibans. This is at a time when the Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid of Delhi was provoking Muslims to help Talibans.
forget the taliban, just look at kashmir. you dont find lucknowis and hyderabadis hurling grenades in srinagar. pp is just trying to fool himself.
Re: Re: If Pakistan and India went to war, would Pakistan avoid Indian Muslims?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by proudpakistani: *
I have known Indian muslims that supported Pakistan in wars. Actually if you look in Indian army there are hardly any muslims. In case of war civilians should be avoided in general. But i think that Pakistan would definitely avoid aread with most muslims.
[/QUOTE]
whats the source of this info.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by proudpakistani: *
**Some1 whenever any topic like that gets started you always come up with a few names of muslims to prove your point.* I am not talking about those few people. I am talking about the common people. In chicago i had many Indian muslim friends and i know that their parents did support Pakistan or atleast believed that Pakistan was right in 48 and 65 wars. I am not saying that they support Pakistan on every issue. But in case of a war alot of them will be taking side with Pakistan.
As far as about the Indian Army, can you tell me what percentage of it is Muslim?
I know that during the Kargil issue some government paid officials from Mosques did say that they will wage Jehad against Pakistan, but in general it was not accepted.
I think that most Indian muslims accept Pakistani stand on Kashmir as they do see soo many people(muslims) being killed by Indian army there.
[/QUOTE]
thats because he states the facts.
Please dont guess on the important issues like this, next time state some facts give references or shut up.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kaka_in_usa: *
thats because he states the facts.
Please dont guess on the important issues like this, next time state some facts give references or shut up.
[/QUOTE]
I have been wanting to shup up. The problem is that everyone denies what i say, but no one has been able to provide me how many muslims join the Indian army. I have been challenged, accused, called names, but not proven wrong. And you did nothing different.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: *
Proudpakistani, tell me what is your problem? You are twisting from % ratio to discrimination to non patriotism of Indian Muslims.
Can you tell us what answer you want? I promise to copy and paste it to appease you.
It will be much sincere to discuss the problems of Indian Muslims. I think the first problem is that majority of Indian Muslims do not want to come out of dark ages like in any other Islamic or non-Islamic country, though they have learnt a lot from the secular tendencies of Hindus.
For example not a single Indian Muslim was found among Talibans. This is at a time when the Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid of Delhi was provoking Muslims to help Talibans.
[/QUOTE]
My problem is that there cannot be a single productive discussion on ths forum about ANYTHING related to Pakistan because it always turns into a Pakistan bashing thread.
As far as the point about discrimination is concerned, i didnt bring it up. It was bitter who said it himself. All I am trying to do it make sense of what your statements mean. Most of the time its you guys that bring something up and then back off from it.
And what seculare tendancies of hindus are you talking about? That is the funniest thing i have ever heard.
If the Shahi Imam of Delhi was talking about supporting Taliban that means that there was support for Taliban, so by stating that you dont prove anything either.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
forget the taliban, just look at kashmir. you dont find lucknowis and hyderabadis hurling grenades in srinagar. pp is just trying to fool himself.
[/QUOTE]
May be I am fooling myself. The only thing i know is that for me every muslim is equal. We are all brothers whether be Indian or Pakistani or Arab. I feel that I have a more stronger connection with them than any other Indian can have. At a time when there was massacare of Muslims going on in Gujrat, I was as hurt as much as i am when see any muslim that gets killed in Pakistan or in any other country.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by proudpakistani: *
May be I am fooling myself. The only thing i know is that for me every muslim is equal. We are all brothers whether be Indian or Pakistani or Arab. I feel that I have a more stronger connection with them than any other Indian can have. At a time when there was massacare of Muslims going on in Gujrat, I was as hurt as much as i am when see any muslim that gets killed in Pakistan or in any other country.
[/QUOTE]
more fooling yourself, PP. if you feel such strong ties with suffering muslims worldwide, where is your response to Darfur? where is compensation for the hundred thousand bengali muslims your muslim army killed? who gives shyte about them? where is the connection that you feel? the only reason you poke your nose into indian muslims affairs is to provide yourself with proof that pakistan was a valid cause. and no, you cant dont have better connections with indian muslims than indian hindus who share their language and culture. just look at how pakistanis treat malabaris in the middle east. enough said.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
more fooling yourself, PP. if you feel such strong ties with suffering muslims worldwide, where is your response to Darfur? where is compensation for the hundred thousand bengali muslims your muslim army killed? who gives shyte about them? where is the connection that you feel? the only reason you poke your nose into indian muslims affairs is to provide yourself with proof that pakistan was a valid cause. and no, you cant dont have better connections with indian muslims than indian hindus who share their language and culture. just look at how pakistanis treat malabaris in the middle east. enough said.
[/QUOTE]
See that is exactly what I am talking about. Every single Indian on this forum has nothing else to talk about other than the rights of Bengalis. That happened more than 30 years ago. We accepted the responsibility. Are you saying that what happened that time justifies what you are doing in Kashmir or gujrat?
As far as language and culture is concerned, it is way down on the list compared to the importance of religion. Atleast that is how I am taught to look at it.
As far as the valid cause to creat Pakistan is concerned, I think there are a bunch of valid reasons. And over time they have been reinforced thanks to the secular indian government.
And i dont know how malabaris are treated in Middle east. All i know is that even Pakistanis are not treated that well.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by proudpakistani: *
See that is exactly what I am talking about. Every single Indian on this forum has nothing else to talk about other than the rights of Bengalis. That happened more than 30 years ago. We accepted the responsibility. Are you saying that what happened that time justifies what you are doing in Kashmir or gujrat?
[/quote]
no, all i am saying is it isnt like pakistanis are guardians of muslims of teh subcontinent. in fact, they have committed the biggest massacre ever to happen in its recent history. so please shut up with all this sympathy crap for kashmiri and gujarati muslim brothers. fools no one.
[quote]
As far as language and culture is concerned, it is way down on the list compared to the importance of religion. Atleast that is how I am taught to look at it.
As far as the valid cause to creat Pakistan is concerned, I think there are a bunch of valid reasons. And over time they have been reinforced thanks to the secular indian government.
[/quote]
of course, if we conveniently omit the muslim genocide in bengal. or the carpet bombing of NWFP by bhutto. or the systematic massacre of balochis. the price paid to keep a "nation" together.
[quote]
And i dont know how malabaris are treated in Middle east. All i know is that even Pakistanis are not treated that well.
[/QUOTE]
true they arent. and these pakistanis who are treated as 2nd class humans by their arab masters treat malabari muslims as 3rd class humans. you can ask mullah armughal about his love for malabaris, right after his lecture on muslim brotherhood.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
no, all i am saying is it isnt like pakistanis are guardians of muslims of teh subcontinent. in fact, they have committed the biggest massacre ever to happen in its recent history. so please shut up with all this sympathy crap for kashmiri and gujarati muslim brothers. fools no one.
[/quote]
Yes we are the chosen ones, to be the guardians of Muslims in the sub-continent! Only time will tell who prevails!
[quote]
of course, if we conveniently omit the muslim genocide in bengal. or the carpet bombing of NWFP by bhutto. or the systematic massacre of balochis. the price paid to keep a "nation" together.
[/quote]
Oh quit this crap will ya. The number of Muslims you massacred in Gujarat isn't even half of what happend in our own country. What has happened has happened. Even after our own mistakes we are still one and no Pakistani feels alienated from the concept of Pakistan. On other hand, you need to see whats goin on and save your India from breakup.
[quote]
true they arent. and these pakistanis who are treated as 2nd class humans by their arab masters treat malabari muslims as 3rd class humans. you can ask mullah armughal about his love for malabaris, right after his lecture on muslim brotherhood.
[/QUOTE]
Ignorance is everywhere, not only in India (where Muslims gtet treated 7th class citizens). Do not generalize a few incidents and make it a mirch masaly wali bollywood story.
Queer you have been on this forum for a while and i have had many discussions with you. I changed alot over this time. But you still carry the same mentality that you had in 1999. Pakistan is the worst place in world and everything bad in this world and in India is because of Pakistan. On the other hand India is heaven on earth and even if they kill thousands of people or do something wrong, it is still ok. Atleast i aggree that Pakistan is not perfect and we have made some mistakes in the past and that we hope that we dont make the same mistakes again. And you are no different from many other Indian on this forum. As far as you talking about sympathy for muslims, if we dont have sympathy for muslims, who else would we have sympathy for then. I guess you will never understand the idea of Ummah.
what carpet bombing in NWFP and what massacare of Baluchis are you talking about? And since when did you become so concerned about whats going on with us in our country. According to your philosophy, its none of your business.
Dear Proudpakistani, what is your problem? You are twisting so often. We do not have any Muslim regiment, like we have Sikh or Rajput regiments. We have state wise survey of armed forces and UP is leading. Make some efforts, instead of showing your rigidness, and you will find actual figures of Muslims in armed forces. I assure you that it is not 1 or 2%. Though you are right that % ratio of Muslims is decreasing in armed forces, (whereas % ratio of Muslims population wise is increasing.)
Gujarat, yes I cannot justify Gujarat, even if Muslims had burnt (or not burnt) train bogies at Godhra, Hindus had no right to attack Muslims.
Thousands of Hindus feel guilty for what some of Hindus did at Gujarat.
(Off the topic, can you show me a single Muslim who feels guilty for 9/11, or let us say for Noakhali killings, or for killing and torturing Hindus in Kashmir?)
So, I think Hindus are very secular. Is not it a secular life style that thousands of Islamic structures are standing at the debris of Hindu monuments and we have brought down only one?
Shahi Imam should have been behind bars for many of his anti national statements. But I think India is an ultra secular country that this chap is moving freely.
What do you mean that his statements in favor of Talibans prove that Indian Muslims favor Talibans? May be you are right.
Ok, but we Indians are happy that not a single Muslim joined Talibans. It seems that our Muslims are very matured than yours. May be it is not Hindu influence.
Are you really serious to talk about Kashmir, as your next twist? I can be a companion, if you make it clear why your freedom fighters attacked and tortured ethnic Hindu Kashmiris?
Are you sure that we are doing the same in Kashmir what you did in East Pakistan? It is a joke for me that sometime back in 90s the figure of killed in Kashmir as per your media was 70000 and today in Dec 2004 it is still 70000. Can you explain this mathematical confusion?
You see, I have made all efforts not divert this discussion to Pakistan, you are scared of!
And you say that i twist statements. You say something and then deny it at the same time. 
we do feel sorry and we will feel even more sorry if atleast you accept that your military has done wrong things in Kashmir.
i didnt want to talk about kashmir, but every single one of you keeps talking about Bengalis day and night. It seems like that is the only thing you know about Pakistan.
And why would I be scared to talk about Pakistan? You are soo good in assuming things. I love it.
Re: If Pakistan and India went to war, would Pakistan avoid Indian Muslims?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TeenDabbyWala: *
Just a theoretical question.
Let's say India and Pakistan went to a non nuclear war. ....
[/QUOTE]
This is highly irresponsible and childish question.
If you know anything about nukes, they do not have Muslim sensing equipment at the tip, nor they can detect a beardo.
Punjabis on both sides of the border need to take notice. Any war using dangerously inaccurate Pak-Bharati missiles will surely result in the annihilation of 120 million Punjabis. Everything from Baba Frid, to Guru Nanak, to Data Gunj Bakhsh will be lost for the next 2300 years (in other words permanently)
The breadbaskets of Bharat and Pakistan will only produce radioactive grass suitable for dung-eating fascists aka Mullahs and their RSS brothers.
Sindh will lose because the radioactive stuff carried downstream will supply glow-in-the-dark water to Sukhur and lower areas.
Anyone posting or selling nuke war ideas should be sent to the mental hospital that happens to be THE place for retarded Neanderthals.