Let’s say India and Pakistan went to a non nuclear war. Doesn’t matter which side attacked first. War is raging and both sides have important installations and buildings of economic importance in major cities like Karachi, Delhi, Mumbai, Faisalabad, Taxila, etc.
In any war the goal is to cause as much damage to the infrastructure as possible, therefore big cities are always targeted. I know in Bombay there are certain neighbourhoods with huge Muslim populations. Same in Delhi.
Would Pakistan go out of it’s way to avoid Indian Muslim civilians and their neighbourhoods so that they don’t become “Collateral Damage”? In Pakistan, both previous wars are billed as a “Fight against Kuffar Aggressors”. Obviously, Indian Muslims aren’t kuffar.
Probably not, Indian Pakistan wars tend to be rather indiscriminant. Of all the people in the world, Desi' seem to have the most disregard for their own people. How many time have we heard about 20 people dead here or there and it hardly elicts a glance?!?
I doubt civilian casualties would concern anyone regardless of their being Muslim or Hindu.
Re: If Pakistan and India went to war, would Pakistan avoid Indian Muslims?
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*Originally posted by TeenDabbyWala: *
Would Pakistan go out of it's way to avoid Indian Muslim civilians and their neighbourhoods so that they don't become "Collateral Damage"? In Pakistan, both previous wars are billed as a "Fight against Kuffar Aggressors". Obviously, Indian Muslims aren't kuffar.
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I have known Indian muslims that supported Pakistan in wars. Actually if you look in Indian army there are hardly any muslims. In case of war civilians should be avoided in general. But i think that Pakistan would definitely avoid aread with most muslims.
Re: Re: If Pakistan and India went to war, would Pakistan avoid Indian Muslims?
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*Originally posted by proudpakistani: *
I have known Indian muslims that supported Pakistan in wars. Actually if you look in Indian army there are hardly any muslims.
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Are you for real ? Have you heard of the man who gave India the nukes and the ICBMs ? He is now our President by the way.
Also, you have zero clue about the Indian army.
Indian Hindus and Muslims may have their differences (thanks to militant Hindu outfits like Shiv Sena, RSS etc) but when it comes to fighting an external enemy...there is no question Indian Muslims are "Indian" first and "Muslims" second.
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*Originally posted by PaKpatriot1: *
Sometimes Indian Muslims are more anti Pk then Hindus!! go figure.
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True....however there is an unfortunate aspect to it and that is the burden of proof is always on the Indian Muslims about their patriotism...which of course I don't agree with.
This means that Indian Muslims have to be vociferous about their nationalism... sometimes.
Some1 whenever any topic like that gets started you always come up with a few names of muslims to prove your point. I am not talking about those few people. I am talking about the common people. In chicago i had many Indian muslim friends and i know that their parents did support Pakistan or atleast believed that Pakistan was right in 48 and 65 wars. I am not saying that they support Pakistan on every issue. But in case of a war alot of them will be taking side with Pakistan.
As far as about the Indian Army, can you tell me what percentage of it is Muslim?
I know that during the Kargil issue some government paid officials from Mosques did say that they will wage Jehad against Pakistan, but in general it was not accepted.
I think that most Indian muslims accept Pakistani stand on Kashmir as they do see soo many people(muslims) being killed by Indian army there.
Re: Re: Re: If Pakistan and India went to war, would Pakistan avoid Indian Muslims?
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*Originally posted by Some1: *
Indian Hindus and Muslims may have their differences (thanks to militant Hindu outfits like Shiv Sena, RSS etc) but when it comes to fighting an external enemy...there is no question Indian Muslims are "Indian" first and "Muslims" second.
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For Most muslims, Islam comes first and everything else comes later on. I believe that Indian muslims grow up learning the same thing.
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*Originally posted by proudpakistani: *
I think that most Indian muslims accept Pakistani stand on Kashmir as they do see soo many people(muslims) being killed by Indian army there.
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while i dont agree with most of what was said in your post, the above would be pushing even wishful thinking to the limit. do you really think indian muslims believe kashmiris should be pakistanis because they are muslims? where would that leave them?
also, if the number of muslims killed were to move muslim hearts, pakistanis would be bangladeshis now. indians, even in their "ruthless" rule in kashmir havent killed close to 10% of the muslims pakistanis killed in east bengal in a few months.
i spent a good part of my childhood in my mom's village - one of the few pockets of india which have a majority muslim concentration. around 70% of the village/district is muslim. never saw any support from even a single person for pakistan even for cricket matches.
Queer by saying they aggree to Pakistani stand i didnt mean that they want Kashmir to join Pakistan. All I meant was that just like we say that Indian army is responsible for killing many innocent humans, they aggree with it too. They also aggree when we say that it should be the people of Kashmir that should decide whether they want to join Pakistan, stay with India or want to be independant. And that is what Pakistani stand on kashmir has always been.
also, if the number of muslims killed were to move muslim hearts, pakistanis would be bangladeshis now. indians, even in their "ruthless" rule in kashmir havent killed close to 10% of the muslims pakistanis killed in east bengal in a few months.
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First of all what you said does not make sense. Why would Pakistanis be Bangladeshi? As far as the number of Bengalis killed by Pakistan issue is concerned, I have posted in many posts before that i dont aggree with the numbers given by Shaikh Mujeeb. And i have posted why i dont aggree with them. The number of muslims killed in Kashmir is much more than that, forget about comparing it to muslims killed in all of India.
And lastly just so that no one think it that way, we do not need anyones help to defend our country. India did need US during Kargil. With or without the support of Indian muslims we would be able to defend our country.
And just one question. Forget about Pakistan, India decides to side with Israel and attacks SaudI Arabia, what side would Indian Muslims be.
ok now its all denials and conspiracy theories. israel US kookiemonster blah blah.
fact remains - far more bengalis were killed than kashmiris, and that too in a very short span. pakistan has no moral high ground over india for being protectors of muslim lives. in fact, they have often used non punjabi muslim lives as cannon fodder for political gains all too often. expecting an indian muslim to side with pakistan in case of a war would be really stupid.
as for the saudi question, did pakistani muslims seem to mind when pakistan joined forces with the US in bombing the hell out of afghans? hell, even today the US forces have a safe airbase in Jacobabad.
Indian muslims equal (if not outnumber) Pakistani Muslims. Therefore they dont need to look to Pak for guidance or support. They are a huge body by themselves and can govern their own destiny. Indian Muslims are doing much better in the arts and sciences(and yes the Film Industry for that matter) than Muslims across the border who have little time from attending Madrasaas(sp?).
I digress but it might interest you to know my ProudPakistani friend...that it is the Kashmiri Muslims(yes 'Muslims') who have sufferred the maximum brunt (directly and indirectly) of the Pak-inspired insurgency in the valley. True... there has been some ethinic cleansing also(like Hindu Pandits have had to flee Kashmir)....but if I were a Kashmiri Muslim...I would be blaming Pakistan and not the Indian Army for playing havoc with my life. If you don't read Nawa-Waqt, you might actually understand what I mean.
The situation has some co-relation with Iraq...where more civilian Iraqi Muslims are being killed by their fellow Muslims(insurgents) than the allied forces.
btw, unlike elsehwere in the Muslim world...Indian Muslims are indeed "indians" first and "muslims" second ..just like Hindus/Sikhs/Jains/Christians/Buddhists et al....and in case you did not know...India is a Secular Republic.
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*Originally posted by proudpakistani: *
And just one question. Forget about Pakistan, India decides to side with Israel and attacks SaudI Arabia, what side would Indian Muslims be.
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They would be on the side of India..no matter what.
It is perhaps hard for you to comprehend but I will say this for the 3rd time in this thread...that Indian Muslims (barring a very small Mullah minority) are INDIANS first and MUSLIMS second.
if pakistan was a true islamic state indian muslims woud be legitimate targets because they live in india, a hindu majority state and did not migrate to pakistan.
but even now, with all problems with pakistan , if there is war with hindu nation, it is a jihad and indian muslims are legitimate targets.
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*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
if pakistan was a true islamic state indian muslims woud be legitimate targets because they live in india, a hindu majority state and did not migrate to pakistan.
but even now, with all problems with pakistan , if there is war with hindu nation, it is a jihad and indian muslims are legitimate targets.
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I see.... their crime, they did not migrate to Pakistan... Was that in Quran or Hadith? .... since you are using Islam and Jihad to justify this logic I would be intrested in your thought process on how you came to this conclusion. Is that based on how wars were fought in Prophet's time? or is there a fatwa/ijtihad on this?