Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
“fighting for little guy” very catchy phrase.
Truth is, in my life time, who ever I come across with and could have an impact on, I would be questioned about that from my creator. I will be asked if i did my job properly This was put in our small heads when we were hardy 12 years old.
Suppose I gain place in Govt, and responsibility of “little guys” is put on me.
I would go nuts with fear of not doing justice people who are made my responsibility.
Remember umar said “if a dog die thirsty on back of river faarat, I would be questioned”
I don’t know how to say that but i try… no I wont.
Other thing I always see decent/humanitarian secular dudes, thinking (extremely)conventional-rational-decency…
sounds kool.. But problem with this decency is, it help good people like your self break away from real decency.
It just provides for a new launching pad for a NEW moral low for society.
Now if you had visited the library I would not have to post so much to make a small point.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
The problem with this entire discussion is that you use religion as the basis for the definition. And yet you quote the one post that indicates religion is not a factor.
Gandhi was a hindu but he didn’t care about religion.
MLK was a christian but didn’t care about religion.
Mandela was a christian but didn’t care about religion.
So by your definition a Muslim would be a great person if he was Muslim but didn’t care about being Muslim.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
It’s not that they didn’t CARE about religion but they didn’t push their religion to the forefront of their agendas. If a man stands up and speaks to the whole world as a Christian, then mainly only Christians will listen to him. If he wants the whole world to listen to him, regardless of race or faith, then he has to speak to them not as a Christian, but as a man.
The question posed by the OP was why Muslims had failed to produce a single figure who is well respected or well renowned **ACROSS THE GLOBE. **There are many Muslims who are well respected by other Muslims but not necessarily by non-Muslims. The day when a Muslim is well respected and well renowned ACROSS THE GLOBE, it will be because of his actions, not because of his religion, even when it his religion that influences his actions.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
As for last sentence, kaali peeli taaney dewoo nakko re! Baskya!
What library Mr. Monk. I have studied Sher Shah in history probably a decade before you came into this world. Have read one book on Moghuls by a southie author. But cant know everything abt every historical figure. No shame in admitting that. We learn from each other here don’t we?
You also suggested the library wrt Quran in another thread. Without providing guidance on which specific section in which specific English edition I should focus on for the topic we were discussing! Come on Mr. Monk. At least provide minimal guidance. Mystery is good. But this much?
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
This is weird you are saying they have to be famous because of their actions not because of religion, then it totally kills the need to ask the question why if islam is a great religion… and don’t even need to use the word muslim for that globally known individual when mentioning his name(in a sense that he was a great muslim man, not that i am saying he is not a muslim anymore). Your reasoning is totally not in line with the orignaal kweshun.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Double standard much?
When it comes to anyone you do not like, you brought pork eating and alcohol.
I bet you wouldn’t care if any of non Muslim so called “great” people drank alcohol like fish and ate port like dogs.
But when it came to any one who you dislike, you brought their "personal choices in to equation.
This is wrong with so called freedom of choice people and live and let die champions these days.
Yes, Gandhi was a racist and a pervert. By any standard.
While alcohol drinking or pork eating maybe personal choices, …
being racist and exploiting young or naive females to either make them sleep naked with or taking advantage of their simple minds is disgusting and unacceptable by any standard of decency. The acts which no one should endorse.
If you have any question on this, then please start a thread on Gandhi so this thread will not lose its course.
As for so called non-violence:
A- It did not bring any or whatsoever peace to the region.
B- It was only directed to his masters and did not help people of the region at large.
C- It actually delayed the inevitable departure of outside rulers since it gave them false indication that somehow both Hindus and Muslims will fall into this idiotic and unrealistic trap and perhaps will stop opposing the oppressors.
D- Gandhi tried to kill everything which was started in 1857 as a joint movement of Hindus and Muslims. No one agreed to him despite his stupid walk with putting his hands on young girls shoulders all across the town.
E- Gandhi became friends to the rulers and the despicable triad of husband, wife and himself only brought shame to Hindus eventually.
F- The so called non-violence was not even followed by his own daughter let alone other leaders or general population. Hence he was killed by the member of his own community.
G- He was THE drama queen of the subcontinent. Read about him.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
This thread is getting increasingly embarrassing, not that it wasn’t already to being with. Some people really need to read proper History books before making any sluggish ignorant remarks.
Martin Luther King was a Pastor for goodness sake. How can you say Christianity had no influence on his agenda? There were many Civil Rights Groups and leaders fighting for equality long before King appeared on the scene, but what made King achieve the breakthrough was his ability to use Christianity to appeal to the white conscious. He was very effective in highlighting religion as a common ground between blacks and white and his whole idea of ‘forgiveness’ was deeply rooted in Christianity. There are plenty of Biblical references and illusions in his speeches, sermons and interviews. In fact look no further than his all time famous ‘I Have a Dream Speech’ to find your answer. Why do you think FBI and Hoover exclaimed ‘we got him’ when they taped all evidence regarding his numerous extra martial affairs - that was one ground breaking opportunity to not just discredit but to completely assassinate his image of all righteous Christian ‘preacher’.
In regards to Gandhi, I’m actually quite interested research the origins of his image as a pop culture political icon. As far as I’m concerned, Atlee’s government and all the officials in India hated him more than Jinnah! And no, it was not because of his policy of non-violence or demand for independence.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Then at me but what I was doing was summarizing the post by the Truthinator and the retarded notion that religion only matters when the other person does everything without mentioning their faith or it playing a factor.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
I know you have keen interest in ideas, and patience to read. Plus exposure to real world.
As a result you would be able to appreciate many things very quickly.
So just get a copy(from more famous translator) and pick topics and read.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
At no point did I say King didn’t care about his religion, he was a Christian minister, of course he cared about his religion! Show me where I’ve said that about King or any of the other people I mentioned. I also didn’t say they never mentioned their religion. What I said was they didn’t push it to the FOREFRONT of their agendas. Martin Luther King campaigned for black people in America, ALL black people not just Christian black people.
People seem to be fixated on the religion aspect of the original question and ignoring the global appeal aspect. The ACTIONS of these people has won the respect and admiration of people all over the world. People of other faiths don’t say what a great Christian Martin Luther King was, they say what a great man he was. His actions resonate not just with Christians but non-Christians too. The fact that he was a Christian has little, if any, bearing with non-Christians.
Do you think a white atheist living in America admires Muhammed Ali because he’s a Muslim? No of course not, he admires him because of what he achieved with his life.
Faith was important to King, Mandela, Ali and the others to varying degrees but what I’m trying to get across was the IMPACT their actions had on the world, why they are considered to be so inspirational, the reason they are admired by SO MANY PEOPLE AROUND THE GLOBE is not because they were a Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc but because of what they ACHIEVED.
Why this seems to be so difficult for certain individuals to grasp is beyond me. If they want to sit there twisting what other people say on here, if that’s what makes them happy, so be it.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Would you like to provide an example of what ‘pushing of religion as a forefront agenda’ looks like?
There are Historians who had said this about King, and you know what, this is not to discredit King but to merely highlight that he was extremely good at what he did and made an excellent use of his background, situation and resources he had. I’m sure King who was a proud Christian would appreciate such verdict. The names of people mentioned in the first post were also products of the world beginning to grow less and less religious.
We have young Malala as a new hero with global appeal and I don’t think she’s referred as ‘Muslim Hero’ in the English press. I don’t think it’s even usual to stamp one’s religion before his/her name, at least in the West. Likes of Ataturk, Jinnah etc are not referred as ‘Muslim nationalists’.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Most people are going by the title and if you choose to ignore this fact, for trying to be politically correct then it is you who are talking out of context.
In case you missed it, religion is placed on the question for the seemingly lack of “great Muslims”.
And that is the fundamental wrong with the question.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Impressive post, If your actions serve as an example to all humanity and maybe the whole humanity has benefitted from it than you are classified as a world class great person.
