If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

[bella88]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

@Truthador

The people you mention were able to capture the attention of the world in a way very few Muslims have been able to do so. More importantly they did it in an era where Radio and then Television had become the number one source of news media for most people. So even if you were illiterate, you were still aware of these people.

Another factor is that most of these people didn’t push their religion to the forefront of their campaigns. Nelson Mandela fought to end apartheid, he wanted black and white to live equally, regardless of faith. Similarly, Martin Luther King, a Christian minister, pushed for equal rights for black people in America. He wasn’t fighting for equal rights for black CHRISTIAN people but black people regardless of faith. Mother Theresa, a Catholic missionary famous for her charity work. She worked to help the poorest people in society regardless of their faith.

Ghandi, a Hindu, was also involved with civil rights, this time in India. He pushed for greater rights in a British ruled India but through peaceful means. He practiced what he preached and chose to live a simple life. Outside of India he’s seen as being an inspirational Indian, rather than a Hindu.

Muhammed Ali is probably one of the few Muslims to achieve global appeal but is he famous because he’s a Muslim? He first achieved popularity BEFORE he was a Muslim. A gifted boxer, he became Heavyweight Champion of the World in 1964 before he reverted to Islam. This was in an age when not only was boxing one of the most dominant sports in the world but being heavyweight champion made you the most famous sports person in the world. However it can be argued that it was through Islam he became the inspirational character he is today.

With his skills and abilities he was already well known in the sporting world. When he joined Islam, his appeal extended to the Muslim world. Outside of boxing it was his refusal to be conscripted into the army and to go fight in Vietnam that cemented his place in history. Muslims continue to admire him but he isn’t held in high esteem by others for being a Muslim. Sporting fans love him for his boxing achievements and others admire him for sticking to his principles, for refusing to go to war. In a sense they see him advocating peace in the same way Ghandi, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela did.

There are many good Muslim role models out there but we live in an age where Muslims are portrayed negatively by the non-Muslim world, so it’s difficult to see how we can have inspirational Muslims who will join the group of people mentioned above. Add to that the way Muslims in the public eye conduct themselves, it makes it all the more difficult. When the majority of Muslim countries appear to be run by corrupt politicians or trigger happy dictators who advocate violence against their own people, then we’re not going to be seeing a Muslim who’s revered by the whole world anytime soon.

the most sensible post so far on this thread. and the least biased one as well.

[redvelvet]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

Diwana, please memes mat use kia karo. Mat use karo. Mat karo. Mat karrrrro!!! Just stick to latifay or something. Bara-e-mehrbaani.

[diwana]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

@Southie

Thanks Mr. Monk. We had Sher Shah in history. But history was taught in dull manner. Remember dates. When king born die. So yes my history weak. Never heard of Umar - other than Umar Akmal and Umar gul.

Speaking of Gul I hear Mohammed Amir is a better bowler. And BCCI is campaigning to keep him out of world cup. Since at Perth apparently he is indestructible.

Any merit to the rumir?

Monk has been extremely nice to you.

He talked bout Hazrat Umer RA, and you deliberately started talking about a cricketer using the same name.

@redvelvet

Diwana, please memes mat use kia karo. Mat use karo. Mat karo. Mat karrrrro!!! Just stick to latifay or something. Bara-e-mehrbaani.

Accha baba- Sochengay Is per. Khush?

Meme Kitini Powerful hai Ab pata chala…

[redvelvet]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

Khush? Aur sirf “sochne” pe? You can do better than that.

Powerful hua karti thi until u killed it. Unleash your wrath on your opponents, but spare the memes.

[TLK]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

@Truthador

The people you mention were able to capture the attention of the world in a way very few Muslims have been able to do so. More importantly they did it in an era where Radio and then Television had become the number one source of news media for most people. So even if you were illiterate, you were still aware of these people.

Another factor is that most of these people didn’t push their religion to the forefront of their campaigns. Nelson Mandela fought to end apartheid, he wanted black and white to live equally, regardless of faith. Similarly, Martin Luther King, a Christian minister, pushed for equal rights for black people in America. He wasn’t fighting for equal rights for black CHRISTIAN people but black people regardless of faith. Mother Theresa, a Catholic missionary famous for her charity work. She worked to help the poorest people in society regardless of their faith.

Ghandi, a Hindu, was also involved with civil rights, this time in India. He pushed for greater rights in a British ruled India but through peaceful means. He practiced what he preached and chose to live a simple life. Outside of India he’s seen as being an inspirational Indian, rather than a Hindu.

Muhammed Ali is probably one of the few Muslims to achieve global appeal but is he famous because he’s a Muslim? He first achieved popularity BEFORE he was a Muslim. A gifted boxer, he became Heavyweight Champion of the World in 1964 before he reverted to Islam. This was in an age when not only was boxing one of the most dominant sports in the world but being heavyweight champion made you the most famous sports person in the world. However it can be argued that it was through Islam he became the inspirational character he is today.

With his skills and abilities he was already well known in the sporting world. When he joined Islam, his appeal extended to the Muslim world. Outside of boxing it was his refusal to be conscripted into the army and to go fight in Vietnam that cemented his place in history. Muslims continue to admire him but he isn’t held in high esteem by others for being a Muslim. Sporting fans love him for his boxing achievements and others admire him for sticking to his principles, for refusing to go to war. In a sense they see him advocating peace in the same way Ghandi, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela did.

There are many good Muslim role models out there but we live in an age where Muslims are portrayed negatively by the non-Muslim world, so it’s difficult to see how we can have inspirational Muslims who will join the group of people mentioned above. Add to that the way Muslims in the public eye conduct themselves, it makes it all the more difficult. When the majority of Muslim countries appear to be run by corrupt politicians or trigger happy dictators who advocate violence against their own people, then we’re not going to be seeing a Muslim who’s revered by the whole world anytime soon.

Good post buddy. Post more often

[diwana]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

Oho! meme zinda hai aur zinda rahegi..phikar na karo…

[bella88]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

i dont understand why posters cant seem to differentiate between rulers, and humanitarians?
the people OP mentioned were people that fought for civil rights, equality, and helped humanity.
how can we compare these people to muslim rulers? no doubt, those rulers and caliphs were good rulers but thats not a humanitarian. Rulers, people in power have a DUTY to help their people and build their cities,towns. Sher Shah Suri building GT road was not an act of selflessness, that was his job. you cannot compare that to martin luther fighting for equality for african americans.
if you start comparing good rulers, there have been some very excellent presidents in the US who have built many dams, roads, bridges and things. are they on the list of humanitarians? there have been countless good rulers in the entire world coming from every religion, faith, ethnicity from the very early times.
I am shocked someone even mentioned Taj Mahal here in this thread! do you know it was built by SLAVES ? how does building taj mahal compare to what Martin Luther King Jr did who fought for civil rights?

[redvelvet]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

^^^So, in order to be a humanitarian…one must not be a ruler? Is that a condition? I’d like to think anyone, regardless of profession, can be a humanitarian. It’s “farz” in many religions to help the needy…and a “farz” is like a job, a duty, an obligation. That said, why do we even use the word humanitarian? Why don’t we just say that Edhi is doing his job? Ironically…if we were to express our appreciation to people like Edhi and Mother Theresa for their “humanitarian” efforts…they are likely to respond with “It’s my job, my duty, etc.”

We make “humanitarian” seem like an optional thing or sentiment. When if you think about it, anything that deals with the word “human” exudes a vibe of necessity and urgency…not that of optional or voluntary.

We’re trying to search for former and current examples of Muslim figures to maybe make us feel more emotionally “secure” about our religion and identities. Those heroes will be asked about their deeds and we will be asked about what we did in this world. Instead of looking to them for emotional security, look to them to be inspired to do even a fraction of what they managed.

[diwana]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

Just by going with second part of title:

It asked of great Muslims.

Anyone can be great Muslim. Not just humanitarians. Great Muslims are not looking for public recognition as I mentioned earlier.

Don’t need to have ANY News media approving it…or average person knowing anything about that person.

What has come to the world:

A racist and pervert Gandhi is a great man.

[bella88]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

@redvelvet

^^^So, in order to be a humanitarian…one must not be a ruler? Is that a condition? I’d like to think anyone, regardless of profession, can be a humanitarian. It’s “farz” in many religions to help the needy…and a “farz” is like a job, a duty, an obligation. That said, why do we even use the word humanitarian? Why don’t we just say that Edhi is doing his job? Ironically…if we were to express our appreciation to people like Edhi and Mother Theresa for their “humanitarian” efforts…they are likely to respond with “It’s my job, my duty, etc.”

We make “humanitarian” seem like an optional thing or sentiment. When if you think about it, anything that deals with the word “human” exudes a vibe of necessity and urgency…not that of optional or voluntary.

We’re trying to search for former and current examples of Muslim figures to maybe make us feel more emotionally “secure” about our religion and identities. Those heroes will be asked about their deeds and we will be asked about what we did in this world. Instead of looking to them for emotional security, look to them to be inspired to do even a fraction of what they managed.

i don’t disagree with what you’re saying.
However, some people here are comparing the building of GT road and Taj Mahal. that way, the Egyptian Pharoahs were great for building the amazing pyramids. there have been great rulers in each country, each civilization throughout history, Muslims and nonMuslims.
some say Obama is a great president for providing affordable health care plans to cover millions of uninsured Americans. many American presidents have done many great things in US. will i compare them to what Mother Theresa or Abdul Sattar Edhi did?

[redvelvet]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

The pharaohs were “great” for constructing pyramids? Yes, the monuments are fascinating, but that back-breaking labor…provided it was done by humans and not jinns…only served the interests of those pompous rulers. A well constructed road that promotes safer and efficient travel is more humanitarian than the pyramids. The rulers and the plebians alike can travel upon it. The pyramids weren’t open to the lesser folks until the pharaohs…and some were despotic rulers…dropped dead, lol. Maybe the reason why non-rulers are seen as humanitarian is because we don’t view their acts as an obligation…whereas rulers do have an obligation for the well-being of the people of their nation. If they fail, it’s a much bigger deal. And what one ruler considers to be a humanitarian effort can be viewed by another ruler or even most of the world as tyranny. I never thought of this until now but making such a big deal of “humanitarian” contributions and allotting awards for it…sort…of makes them seem like optional/voluntary and extra efforts that the rest of the populace…barring the rulers…are exempt from. These phenomenal figures treat their efforts like obligations…and believe everyone should treat helping as an obligation…but we’ve only assigned that status to the rulers.

[HeadStrong]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

@diwana

Just by going with second part of title:

It asked of great Muslims.

Anyone can be great Muslim. Not just humanitarians. Great Muslims are not looking for public recognition as I mentioned earlier.

Don’t need to have ANY News media approving it…or average person knowing anything about that person.

What has come to the world:

** A racist and pervert Gandhi is a great man. **

While some leaders ate pork and drank alcohol, Gandhi served time in prison fighting for independence. He was instrumental in spreading the message of non-violence in a world torn apart by violence.
If it was not for Gandhi , maybe we could have been citizens of England. Colonial hangover still. But to call Gandhi a pervert exceeds all limits of decency and sense unfortunately.

[bella88]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

@redvelvet

The pharaohs were “great” for constructing pyramids? Yes, the monuments are fascinating, but that back-breaking labor…provided it was done by humans and not jinns…only served the interests of those pompous rulers. A well constructed road that promotes safer and efficient travel is more humanitarian than the pyramids. The rulers and the plebians alike can travel upon it. The pyramids weren’t open to the lesser folks until the pharaohs…and some were despotic rulers…dropped dead, lol.

did you not read the comparison with taj mahal and pyramids? someone had posted earlier in this thread that Taj Mahal as being one of the great things by muslims. so by that comparison, building of taj mahal and pyramids are on the same boat as both required forced labor and probably killed many workers while building it.
my point in comparing Pharoas as being great for pyramids is the same as for Shah Jahan building Taj Mahal. how was it a great thing to build Taj Mahal? certainly not for the forced slaves and laborers.
you didn’t read my post fully. i don’t think it was a great thing for Pharaohs to build pyramids, and definitely nothing humanitarian or ‘great’ for the common folks, just like Taj Mahal wasn’t a great thing for the common folks either. you seemed to have missed my point entirely. i was only pointing out what a poster had written previously about Taj Mahal as one of the ‘achievement’ for Muslims.

[muqawwee123]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

@bella88

i dont understand why posters cant seem to differentiate between rulers, and humanitarians?
the people OP mentioned were people that fought for civil rights, equality, and helped humanity.
how can we compare these people to muslim rulers? no doubt, those rulers and caliphs were good rulers but thats not a humanitarian. Rulers, people in power have a DUTY to help their people and build their cities,towns. Sher Shah Suri building GT road was not an act of selflessness, that was his job.** you cannot compare that to martin luther fighting for equality for african americans. **
if you start comparing good rulers, there have been some very excellent presidents in the US who have built many dams, roads, bridges and things. are they on the list of humanitarians? there have been countless good rulers in the entire world coming from every religion, faith, ethnicity from the very early times.
I am shocked someone even mentioned Taj Mahal here in this thread! do you know it was built by SLAVES ? how does building taj mahal compare to what Martin Luther King Jr did who fought for civil rights?

so who brought slaves like Hazrat Bilal Habshi (RA) in a position to inquire from a caliph about his spending? Haven’t our history books mentioned how slaves were treated by companions of the Prophet and who got how many slaves free?

For rulers like Omar (RA), isn’t it well know fact that his slave was riding the camel and caliph walking on foot, while they entered Palestine as a conqueror?

[redvelvet]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

^Bella, the first time I read your post, it seemed as though you thought the pyramids were great. However when I read your post again…and this was before your posted the above ^ response, I understood that you did not think the pyramids to be a humanitarian contribution, but I chose to leave my reflection on the pyramids as opposed to editing. I find the monuments fascinating but eerie and creepy at the same time. They, like the TM, are great in terms of contribution to architecture, but not in the humanitarian sense…and nor does architecture alone…especially that which does not really benefit the people…make a ruler “great.” So, I understand what you’re saying.

[Monk]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

when all rulers were building palaces for their queens, sher shah under took most humongous engineering project.(for common people)
Created mail system(for common people)

he did not want vote to get elected. he did not have to have TV campaigns.
He did not have to feed newspaper…

He could have just enjoy like mughels… but he did not!!!

Same way if you go *herappa *, every thing done there is for common people.(pre-muslim era using just for example)

Now lets come to obama, name one thing he or any amreekan president did, when no one was expecting them to do??
Shar shah suri equvelant , amreekan president would be, some one on one nice morning say, “no more gmo” “no more carbon emission” “all amrekeens get health for free”
And them make it happen in 5 years.

Also I mentioned "I can only appreciate very little " due to my humble knowledge.

[LucyMay]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

Can’t think of a historical figure, but a present day Muslim humanitarian is Salman Khan (no,no not the actor!) - founder of the Khan Academy. Although he is not world famous like Gandhi or Mandela, he is pretty well known in education/technology/scientific circles.

Salman Khan (educator) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Zapatista]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

TLK, just because they are not getting hyped up in your world, doesn’t mean they don’t exist…

As for the poeple the OP mentioned.

[Southie]

Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims

@Monk. The GT highway piece informative. Agree with your position that modern day leaders do things go win elections. It is the true progressives who set aside their own personal interests and fight for the little guy. In other words, they are the Modern day Sher Shahs. Fighting for things that benefits ALL.

In the US these progressives were called tree huggers in disdain by the Right for their green stance.
these progressives fought for civil rights. Opposed by the Right.

They fight for gay rights. Regardless of whether they are gay or not. Opposed by the Right.

What say you Mr. Monk

[S_and_S]

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