Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
You dont chase fame. When you do something good, fame comes to you.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Always?
Every time?
And more importantly:
By what means fame comes to good people?
My other thoughts are seemingly random killings and some target killings of good people/religious people and interesting the blame also goes to unknown motorcycle riders. (Na Maloom Afraad).
One can search the lists of Ulemas and religious scholars killed in last few decades.
Conspiracytheory?.. Sure. 
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Yes, Taliban would provide sincere leadership. Btw, often religion is the problem. (West) Pakistan population has gone from 35 million in 1947 to nearly 200 million today. How about encouraging contraception and family planing? Would Mullahs allow that? Oh, wait they want child brides and use religion justify it.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Isn’t this off topic?
Anyhow it is a great topic to talk about in another thread.
Hint:
Religion is not the prime reason for population increase.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Bhai, the dad…despite being a brainiac…is still a flawed, imperfect human being. That said, dad is not going to demonstrate smarts in every single comment/action/decision no matter his high IQ. Questioning the intelligence of the son is like saying that he did not “inherit” the father’s smarts. It also implies that mere inheritance of the trait should make it effortless. The moral values in Islam are not inherited. We have to work upon our character and we were created imperfect by default.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
You think, they need more democracy and time to become sincere leaders?
Then your question should be “why muslims are not following Islam?”
if you say you meant same then do acknowledge that everyone here except you has misunderstood your questions.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
PPP and MQM are secular parties. Give them more time to rule the pakistan, that would help you.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
btw to be great muslim you have to practice Islam … isn’t it … and as far as I know we hardly have 0.001 % muslims who actually practice Islam … and no I am talking about Islam as a way of life , not just praying and saying inshaAllah mashaAllah in every sentence .
Plus I met a lot of Muslims but not a Momin … sad
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
There are very few things I can appreciate.
Still I see best 2 rulers of the world and of indain sub continent were muslim.
Umer(as) unique combination of strength, wisdom and compassion… un parallel statecraft skill.
sher sha suri… do i need to say more then his name ?
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Though this thread has almost gone dead, put the pain i could sense in TLK’s tone in this post touched me bad bad that made me sort of revive it again.
Shias also call Hazrat Aisha (r.a) and many companions of prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) bad names or see and portray them as very negative historical figures. Can we overlook hazrat Aisha’s significant role in passing down the knowledge of ahadees, from which even shias have benefited??? Despite benefiting from her contributions, they don’t have respect for her??
I don’t know how you can so blatantly say we love Hazrat umar and other caliphs and companions just because they were close friends of prophet and there is no great deed that they did. Have you even read the history books. Atleast, if not much go and read wikipedia page on Hazrat Umar. I just have this limited knowledge that I am sharing. Hazrat Umar, was the first person who introduced the state welfare system in the world, which was taken to Europe by Abbasids. Isn’t that a shame that they adopted what our muslim men had introduced, but we totally forgot. Today that system is hardly implemented by any muslim state. Still looking for impact on the world or you want approval from the west oh i am sorry the world outside of Pakistan not just west.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Khattab.html
not a biography book, but trust me this is just one small example of how well aware of our ‘past’ they are.
And talk about human rights, the history of jews , they have never ever on earth been tolerated and well treated by anyone as done by muslims, jews have a long history of persecution at hands of other religious groups, if they were ever given their full rights was only by muslims. When hazrat umar had conquered jerasulem, there was a ban on jews imposed by christians from entering bait al muqaddas, it was Hazrat umar who abolished the bans etc and allowed them to enter the place of worship. and still we are hated the most by jews, surprisingly. Would they still ever see those muslims as heros. but still it doesn’t sting as hard as it does when our own peo…
During the thread, once you say the entire muslim history, then you say last two centuries, then you say historiographers’ accounts of muslims, then you say historiographers outside of pakistan (well then that includes all the muslim countries), then you say the western world, here you write US universities, then you ask for the impact on world, I recall that smiley a guy used to use in bombshell babes threads, smiley shooting his own head, bsb effect much?
You don’t like aurangzeb, fine dont. What about Salahuddin ayyubi, sher shah suri.
Aurangzeb the villain in your eyes, but what his father left behind as taj mahal alone brings india a revenue of $288,000,000, took this figure from official site, yes it covers the maintenance costs too.
And if we have to go by foreign historians there was a book on crusade wars on salah ud din ayubi , written by a western author, if you want the name i will dig it out from somewhere, his book totally portrayed him as a negative character. But maybe this is what you would like to believe in more. iguess.
Fine if he was liar, what about idrisi and maqadisi, the first ones to compile the most accurate world atlases. They are some of the famous geographers in the books of history. We don’t even know their names, and those countries have monuments, their statues erected in their honor.
And yes they wouldn’t recognize many names in this list too because to them they are, decres, albatanis, alfarbieus, Avicenna , geber, alhazen etc etc . Have you actually ever approached them with a list? And if muslims today themselves don’t remember those names, should we expect ‘others’ to. But they still do because even in this day and age some of their work pieces are hailed as hallmark contributions in the respective fields.
You talk about the impact on the world. Foundations of so many knowledge domains and disciplines were laid down by these muslims. Having helped shape much of the modern day sciences is not an impact on the world than what?
Almost known by everyone, the words chemistry, algebra are derived from arabic. Can we overlook alhazen’s work, alone in the field of optics? There would be some ‘nikammay’ European historians out there who wouldn’t know these names.
If this story was fabricated, then so was Hazrat Awais qarni’s getting all his teeth extracted, but does that fake story make him any less of a pious figure. A fake story associated with Tariq bin Ziyad would mean that all the accounts of his accomplishments, which are more relevant to us, recorded in the history books are also fake.
The name Gibraltar comes from the word Jabal e Tariq, during the rule that mountain was given the name Jabal e Tariq, which through local accents became gibraltar. and obviously you know that, if you know about the fake story, you must be aware of this too. And yes many of European historians have extremely biased attitude towards muslims, especially the ones coming from golden era, you would hardly get to hear much positive stuff from them. Would their biased views will rewrite the entire history for us?
Don’t know what such evils Jinnah had done, or was he an undercover chor who stole your kohinoor, but what counts for me is the fruit of his hard struggle, maybe the story of his disease TB is also be fake near you, but for me, not, and honestly if I was jinnah and were alive today, I wouldnt have given a heck to working towards a separate nation while suffering from such disease all along, just so to be told at the end of the day, I was not what history had shown me to be. Like Pakistan goes all down the drain. What is left behind is Jinnah’s mud-spattered character, that is what matters the most.
I still recall being told these lines, by nehru’s sister, vijaya pundit, “if only we had one Jinnah in congress, and muslim league had 100 gandhis partition would have never taken place”. Ho sakta hai yeh bhi fake ho
And even mother Teresa had controversies linked with her, that she was actually working towards the spread of Christianity under the label of her cause.
There was a Hollywood film, called Gandhi, if you know about this film, it contained a very negative portrayal of Jinnah. Isn’t that how images are purposefully distorted.
Gandhi, nehru, mandela, mother teresa, this is your own list of aqeedat mandi.
patricia crone, George sarton, martin hinds(surname not sure) are some of the foreign writers who have written books on muslim scientists, rulers including umar r.a.(they are historical accounts compiled together not biographies) etc. One can even find ibn al haitham’s books on amazon.com.
And I remember when I was first reading up on these muslim scientists and other famous historical figures, the most astonishing thing that I found out was that not only had they excelled in these knowledge domains but were equally equipped with the knowledge of jurisprudence, religion and quran, and that too from a young age. Mohammad bin qasim was 17 when he conquered sindh, our 17 year old is a bacha.
How much of the Islam are we following now to ask such question? And if west has achieved so much success despite not following Islam, then have we ever thought the reason behind that. Besides sitting on our couches and hurling blames at others, have we made an effort to at least adopt some of those ‘nice’ traits that have brought them this far ahead. The basic lessons of truthfulness, integrity, honesty etc.
How will great muslims be produced now. West does appeal to us but it’s mainly their celebrities, tv shows, that we find more interesting. Our mils are busy finding ways how to torture dils, dils are busy setting noose around husbands, girls are busy obsessing over designer bunto outfits, and of men well the less said the better. A muslim president brutally butchers his people and equates it with the blood loss occuring during a surgical procedure. World’s second largest religious group(muslims) and we can’t pull Gazans out of the siege. Whilst we are shopping for our kids’ superman costume, far far somewhere a 2year old gazan doll’s bloody dead body is pulled out of rubble. And we are proud muslims.
In my opinion the best thing ever happened to this world is Tlk. and for that i don’t need any historian’s or western eastern nations’ approval or acknowledgment of any sort.
I am going for coffee, will you join me tlk.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Sri Ram and Sri Krishna?
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Muslims is the person who submit his will to God.
We know there were 124000 messenger came to this world.
We also know there is not been a single area/community where messenger were not sent.
I wont be surprised if ram or kirishna were one of them.
Also I mentioned sheer shah because we see his work in our every day life, we dont have to travel to some old time capital to see
his palace.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
And Mr. Monk wins this one going away.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
well he built GT raod and mail system.in 5 years.. you cant beat that!!
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
The people you mention were able to capture the attention of the world in a way very few Muslims have been able to do so. More importantly they did it in an era where Radio and then Television had become the number one source of news media for most people. So even if you were illiterate, you were still aware of these people.
Another factor is that most of these people didn’t push their religion to the forefront of their campaigns. Nelson Mandela fought to end apartheid, he wanted black and white to live equally, regardless of faith. Similarly, Martin Luther King, a Christian minister, pushed for equal rights for black people in America. He wasn’t fighting for equal rights for black CHRISTIAN people but black people regardless of faith. Mother Theresa, a Catholic missionary famous for her charity work. She worked to help the poorest people in society regardless of their faith.
Ghandi, a Hindu, was also involved with civil rights, this time in India. He pushed for greater rights in a British ruled India but through peaceful means. He practiced what he preached and chose to live a simple life. Outside of India he’s seen as being an inspirational Indian, rather than a Hindu.
Muhammed Ali is probably one of the few Muslims to achieve global appeal but is he famous because he’s a Muslim? He first achieved popularity BEFORE he was a Muslim. A gifted boxer, he became Heavyweight Champion of the World in 1964 before he reverted to Islam. This was in an age when not only was boxing one of the most dominant sports in the world but being heavyweight champion made you the most famous sports person in the world. However it can be argued that it was through Islam he became the inspirational character he is today.
With his skills and abilities he was already well known in the sporting world. When he joined Islam, his appeal extended to the Muslim world. Outside of boxing it was his refusal to be conscripted into the army and to go fight in Vietnam that cemented his place in history. Muslims continue to admire him but he isn’t held in high esteem by others for being a Muslim. Sporting fans love him for his boxing achievements and others admire him for sticking to his principles, for refusing to go to war. In a sense they see him advocating peace in the same way Ghandi, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela did.
There are many good Muslim role models out there but we live in an age where Muslims are portrayed negatively by the non-Muslim world, so it’s difficult to see how we can have inspirational Muslims who will join the group of people mentioned above. Add to that the way Muslims in the public eye conduct themselves, it makes it all the more difficult. When the majority of Muslim countries appear to be run by corrupt politicians or trigger happy dictators who advocate violence against their own people, then we’re not going to be seeing a Muslim who’s revered by the whole world anytime soon.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Truthador
Love your writing. What a pleasure to read it. Hope you will post more. And often.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Who? Sherr shah or the other person u named - Umar?
Mail system yaani letters?
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
southie which world do you live in?
sher shah suri, established mail system in subcontinent. Also he built GT road
Grand Trunk Road - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
What Umer did is stuff of legends.
His kingdom expanded over like 5-6 current day countries.
His attitude was “if a dog die thirsty on bank or river farrat, I would be questioned.”
He was dragged in court by a jew, he stood in-front of qaazi
People asked to explain how he got his dress made since he was so tall.
The welfare state concept we see in west today, it was initiated by him.
You need to do serious reading if you want to know him 
For now Umar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Funny post to say the least.
Thanks for the good laugh.
Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Thanks Mr. Monk. We had Sher Shah in history. But history was taught in dull manner. Remember dates. When king born die. So yes my history weak. Never heard of Umar - other than Umar Akmal and Umar gul.
Speaking of Gul I hear Mohammed Amir is a better bowler. And BCCI is campaigning to keep him out of world cup. Since at Perth apparently he is indestructible.
Any merit to the rumir?