^^JF-17 can also be used to bring down SU-30MKI :@:
The comparison of the JF-17 and SU-30MKI is simply silly. They are 2 very different classes of aircraft, and the countries involved will be using them for different purposes. The SU-30MKI is very likely the world's second best fighter plane behind the F-22, and any belief that the JF-17 will match up with SU-30MKI is delusional.
Lets make it realistic.
Very well, my friend! Your attempt to refute my point was good but you missed a point. You are proving the prowess of PAF by siting your governments site, an article from a forum named "Islamic Perspective" and video of a pilot on you tube whereas I quoted Pentagon and Topgun, I compared IAF with USAF and you came up with PAF vs Syrian Air Force, I just can't comprehend it. If you want to reach at some conclusion I suggest you, like me, start using some credible/neutral sources (atleast not Pakistani media/govt. and I won't refer to Indian media/govt. for the time being) on which we both can agree upon.
My question is still the same. SU-30MKI achieved a 9:1 kill ratio against F-16s and F-15s(F-15 is a much better plane compared to F-16) in COPE INDIA. The pilots flying those F-16s and F-15s were from USAF. How long Pak will able to thwart IAF's intention to have Air Superioirity over PAK Air Space given the fact that Pak has 32 F-16s while India has 4 squdrons (80 planes) of SU-30MKIs today. What outcome do you expect?
The comparison of the JF-17 and SU-30MKI is simply silly. They are 2 very different classes of aircraft, and the countries involved will be using them for different purposes. The SU-30MKI is very likely the world's second best fighter plane behind the F-22, and any belief that the JF-17 will match up with SU-30MKI is delusional.
Sometimes its good to have a laugh........i used this similey in my other post :@:.....ever wondered y????
What good are top-class fighter jets when Indian pilots crash trainers into the side of mounties. No doubt India has more weapons, Indian army is a drafted army pardomananitly based on a haritical Hindu caste-system, in other words it contains soldiers who don't even really want to be there, most Hindus are in the airforce and atillary while the Sikhs are thrown into the front lines. The sooner Sikh realize Pakistan is not thier enemy and many Punjabis infact have some kind of empathy for them, the better.
Very well, my friend! Your attempt to refute my point was good but you missed a point. You are proving the prowess of PAF by siting your governments site, an article from a forum named "Islamic Perspective" and video of a pilot on you tube whereas I quoted Pentagon and Topgun,
govt site: that i quoted for the reference of their training program and if it is a govt site it wont be showing other sovereign govts names without the fact.
[quote]
My question is still the same. SU-30MKI achieved a 9:1 kill ratio against F-16s and F-15s(F-15 is a much better plane compared to F-16) in COPE INDIA. The pilots flying those F-16s and F-15s were from USAF.
[/quote]
show me a credible evidence where it says that happened, whereas i shown you the actual briefing of the pilots participated and that wwas not just a talk as many real issues and understandable issues were raised there.
[quote]
How long Pak will able to thwart IAF's intention to have Air Superioirity over PAK Air Space given the fact that Pak has 32 F-16s while India has 4 squdrons (80 planes) of SU-30MKIs today. What outcome do you expect?
[/quote]
in no circumstances india would have complete air superiority over pak airspace, and most probably in first phases of war indian forward airbases would be targeted with Ballistic and cruise missiles and then indian may have to use airbases deep inside which would affect its strike capabilities.
and with airdefence system and BVR missiles on JF17s, Mirages and F16 it would have enough to counter beyond visual range combat and when in Dogfights , it would come down to hardware and much to the training as well,f16, mirages, f7s would be a credible force against IAFs mirage2000, migs and to some extent su30mk as its a huge airplanes.
i have seen videos of greek and turkish dogfights without missile firing and in many instances f16s conveniently locked on mirage2000s.
as for air to ground bombing role goes there is nothing to compared to su30MKI no doubt about it.
What good are top-class fighter jets when Indian pilots crash trainers into the side of mounties. No doubt India has more weapons, Indian army is a drafted army pardomananitly based on a haritical Hindu caste-system, in other words it contains soldiers who don't even really want to be there, most Hindus are in the airforce and atillary while the Sikhs are thrown into the front lines. The sooner Sikh realize Pakistan is not thier enemy and many Punjabis infact have some kind of empathy for them, the better.
You cross the line. We have people from every religion, caste and creed. Hindu hierarchy, where? We didn't only have innumerous Sikh pilots but even had great sikh Air Chief Marshals.
Air Chief Marshal
Dilbagh Singh **
**PVSM, AVSM, VM
CAS, 01 Sep 1981 - 03 Sep 1984
Marshal of the Air Force **
**Arjan Singh
PADMA VIBHUSHAN, DFC
CAS, 01 Aug 1964 - 15 July 1969
Today I understand why Bangladesh got created, because all you do is partiality and nepotism. Pakistan will break again because of its fanaticism. LOL Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, jews etc. of India will rejoice that day as they did in 71. Shame on your factious schemes. Shame on you!
NOTE: There was no attack on any religion in the post you replied to, so take control of yourself.
I am just quoting the excerpt which you have asked for but I recommend you read all of them and your belief about IAF pilots will be gone forever.
2. USAF: Indian Exercises Showed Need For F/A-22, Changes In Training
© Inside The Air Force
By Hampton Stephens
[June 4, 2004]
**Republican Duke Cunningham (R-CA) said in a Feb. 26 House Appropriations defense subcommittee hearing that U.S. F-15Cs were defeated more than 90 percent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF.
**
3. 3rd Wing Explains ‘Cope India’ Exercise
© Aviation Week & Space Technology; aviationnow.com
By David A. Fulghum, Elmendorf AFB
[April 10, 2004]
Why, because all pakis feel it? Man, I am giving straight proofs and you are still stubborn!
May be! I being a civilian can anticipate this, why won’t IAF acknowledge this and take appropriate measures!
You make me laugh! An obsolete aircraft F-7 against MIG-29, Mirage-2000, Jaguar, MIG-27,MiG-23! I am fed up with copy pasting, you just read the specifications for F-7 and any of these aircraft, you will be embarassed about what you have written!
SU-30MKI is the most maneuverable plane in the world after SU-37. I am embarassed about the fact that you compared F-7 with SU-30MKI.
Anyway, I am sure SU-30MKI will never encounter an F-16 because we have MIG-29s to carry out the assualt. 300 MIG-29s vs 32 F-16s. This is the link : -
Russian Aviation Page: Which is better: MiG-29 Fulcrum or F-16 Falcon?
You cross the line. We have people from every religion, caste and creed. Hindu hierarchy, where? We didn't only have innumerous Sikh pilots but even had great sikh Air Chief Marshals. Air Chief Marshal Dilbagh Singh ** **PVSM, AVSM, VM CAS, 01 Sep 1981 - 03 Sep 1984
Marshal of the Air Force ** **Arjan Singh PADMA VIBHUSHAN, DFC CAS, 01 Aug 1964 - 15 July 1969 Today I understand why Bangladesh got created, because all you do is partiality and nepotism. Pakistan will break again because of its fanaticism. LOL Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, jews etc. of India will rejoice that day as they did in 71. Shame on your factious schemes. Shame on you!
A few token Sikhs in the Indian army is no great achievement for Khalsa.
You reali have this habbit of not reading ppls post properly… Let me make it clear for u… Here you go, here is his post, i have highlited it for you… Read it again now plz…
**
**
F-16 A, F-6, Mirages (i might be wrong here, buti guess Surface to Air missile would also be used to bring down IAF jets whereever possible), These would be enough to bring down IAF jets (well most of them reali),
While JF-17, F-16b, along with missiles, would be used to strike in india…
Re: IAF Capabilities vs PAF Power
[QUOTE]
most probably in first phases of war indian forward airbases would be targeted with Ballistic and cruise missiles and then indian may have to use airbases deep inside which would affect its strike capabilities
[/QUOTE]
I agree with this..... Pakistan would proably target indian air bases with cruise & ballistic missiles....... That should give us some advantage.....
In any way....War will cost India more, than Pak.......
I give you all a must read article by Aviation Week and Space Technology, By David A. Fulghum and Douglas Barrie. If anyone among you all has already read it than please don't blast me:), I am pretty new to this business.
Su-30MK Beats F-15C 'Every Time'
How many times are you
This is a controlled excercise with many restrictions (i.e. use of specific radars/missiles by USAF, and not for IAF). For example, the USAF was not allowed to operate the AN/TPS-77, which alone can change the whole scenario. Also, the USAF deliberately "lost" this excercise so that they could get newer, better aircraft. Shortly after the excercise completed, the congress approved multi-billion dollar contracts to Raytheon, LHM/Boeing, BAE, Northrop Grumman, and many other firms, to produce 100's of JSF's and F-22's (cost of 1 F-22 is over $100 million), which would replace all of the F-15's and F-16's in the USAF. These are funds that the congress never would've approved otherwise.
NOTE: There is no reason to bring someone's religion in the discusion.
How many times are you
This is a controlled excercise with many restrictions (i.e. use of specific radars/missiles by USAF, and not for IAF). For example, the USAF was not allowed to operate the AN/TPS-77, which alone can change the whole scenario. Also, the USAF deliberately "lost" this excercise so that they could get newer, better aircraft. Shortly after the excercise completed, the congress approved multi-billion dollar contracts to Raytheon, LHM/Boeing, BAE, Northrop Grumman, and many other firms, to produce 100's of JSF's and F-22's (cost of 1 F-22 is over $100 million), which would replace all of the F-15's and F-16's in the USAF. These are funds that the congress never would've approved otherwise.
guys this is not about hindus sikh muslims . why make it nasty...
A few token Sikhs in the Indian army is no great achievement for Khalsa.
NOTE: No personal attacks!
People who know nothing than to abuse are most unwelcome to gratuitously reply to my posts! India is not at war with ** Pakistan***, so please stop it. From now on any I won't be replying to any offensive message!
*
Yes, you are wrong!
According to preliminary estimates, in long-range air combat, the Su-30MKI outperforms the F-16C Block 60, F-16C Block 50 and F-18E/F aircraft by 15, 20 and 12-15 percent, respectively, owing to its radar’s greater detection range, higher jamming immunity and multichannel capability, as well as better maneuverability (For details about SU-30MKIs radar just scroll down a few lines). The Su-30MKI’s **super maneuverability and better air-to-air missiles **give this aircraft superiority in close air combat in which it excels the F-16C Block 50 by 10-15 percent, F-16C Block 60 by 20-30 percent (as the high wing loading significantly limits its maneuverability in close-range combat), and F-18E/F by 15-20 percent. The Su-30MKI has no AoA limitations: it can fly at even 180 degree AoA and still recover.<<<unique. This high super-agility allows rapid deployment of weapons in any direction as desired by the crew. It deflects automatically and allows high angle-of- attack flights.
If ,by any chance (though I see no reason why Su-30MKI would miss F-16’s detection first owing to its better radar), F-16 fires upon first, with this kind of maneuverability Su-30MKIs can easily “jink” BVR missiles which are generally less maneuverable than the somewhat shorter range dog fight missiles, which have a higher boresight (note: - some even have no boresight limit). Its a known fact that BVR missiles are more susuptable to be “spoofed” than the shorter range/faster dogfight missiles.
The current radar in the SU30MKI actually has the capability to “lock on” to the aim120 amramm missiles and is able to shoot at the missile with the amrammaski missle (russian, some say a copy of the aim120. LOL but with far longer range and on par with the latest version of the 120 in performance). This is one of the few aircraft capable of shooting a missile with an air to air missile. The radar is very capable indeed.
RADAR (Su-30MKI)
The forward facing NIIP N011M Bars (Panther) is a powerful integrated passive electronically scanned array radar. The N011M is a digital multi-mode dual frequency band radar.[18]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi-30_MKI#cite_note-17) The N011M can function in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneously while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial or GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features. N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km. The radar can track 15 air targets and engage the 4 most dangerous simultaneously. These targets can even include cruise missiles and motionless helicopters. The Su-30MKI can function as a mini-AWACS as a director or command post for other aircraft. The target co-ordinates can be transferred automatically to at least 4 other aircraft. The radar can detect ground targets such as tanks at 40–50 km.
I have solved your prob of F-16s and now let me tell you about the feasibility of missiles attacking Inida!
India has an active Anti-ballistic missile development effort using indigenously developed and integrated radars and locally designed missiles.[16] In November 2006, India successfully conducted the PADE (Prithvi Air Defence Exercise) in which an ABM, called the Prithvi Air Defense (PAD) an Exoatmospheric (outside the atmosphere) interceptor system intercepted a Prithvi-II ballistic missile. The PAD missile has the secondary stage of the Prithvi missile and can reach altitude of 80 km. During the test the target missile was intercepted at an 50 km altitude.[17]** India became the fourth nation in the world to acquire such a capability and the third nation to develop it through indigenous effort**.[18] On 6th December 2007 the Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile system was tested successfully.[19] This missile is an Endo atmospheric interceptor with an altitude of 30 km.. Two new anti ballistic missiles that can intercept IRBM/ICBMs are being developed. These high speed missiles (AD-1 and AD-2) are being developed to intercept ballistic missiles with the range of 5000 km.[21] The test trials of these system is expected to take place in 2009/2010.[22]
For the time being, India has also bought S-300 from Russia. The S-300 is a series of Russian long range surface-to-air missile systems developed to defend against aircraft and cruise missiles and to intercept ballistic missiles.
Re: IAF Capabilities vs PAF Power
some thing tells me that Indians are wetting their beds just thinking of a war with so much 'options' and 'very few' reasons' to use them.
Pakiitan will ride this with flying colours inshallah beacuse;
We are Muslims
We believe in the true religion of ONE Allah unlike our counterpart summoning random bhagwaans to come to their aid.
Its like 'fast n reliable CABLE internet' against 'dialup stupid tooun tooun tone'
It is JUST NOT RIGHT or concievable to see IN ANY FORMAT TO SEE INDIANS taking advantage of the the technology they have BOUGHT from their Roosi masters.
Unless India uses the surprice element of 'SUNNY DEOL' in the theatre
some thing tells me that Indians are wetting their beds just thinking of a war with so much 'options' and 'very few' reasons' to use them.
LOL. I heard the contrary. I guess it was Pakistan asking its allies to diffuse tensions b/w India and Pak and again it was ISI that had alarmed the bells in Pak because it detected, out of no where, massive movements of Indian Armed Forces. Again, I suppose it was Pak to remove its troops from Afghan border and deploy near the Indian border and yet again Pak F-16s were flying sorties over your major cities without any provocation.
We are a peaceful nation and would never ever believe in war but what to do when a chagrined army is helping militancy covertly to avenge the loss of last 4 wars. We can't sit and let our people die!
Pakiitan will ride this with flying colours inshallah beacuse;
We are Muslims We believe in the true religion of ONE Allah unlike our counterpart summoning random bhagwaans to come to their aid.
Its like 'fast n reliable CABLE internet' against 'dialup stupid tooun tooun tone'
LOL,** Shaz you got company!:) LOL, Shaz you got company!:) LOL, Shaz you got company!:) LOL, Shaz you got company!**:)
It is JUST NOT RIGHT or concievable to see IN ANY FORMAT TO SEE INDIANS taking advantage of the the technology they have BOUGHT from their Roosi masters.
Ya, firstly SU-30MKI was developed jointly but now we manufacture them indigenously. You shourd read about India's ABM in my upper post. India became the fourth nation in the world to acquire such a capability and the third nation to develop it through indigenous effort.
By the way, look who is taunting about exporting weapons. A country which test fires a similar weapon the very next day we tested. What coincidence, right? I guess that one day is taken to paint those Chinese things!:)
Unless India uses the surprice element of 'SUNNY DEOL' in the theatre
I hope wars were that simple where a man could settle everything!
guys this is not about hindus sikh muslims . why make it nasty...
Atleast some of you do understand that India and Pakistan are not at war and god forbid, would never be at one! So, there is no point hurling insult. Anyway, the immediate but one post above this by me, a reply to shaz, was actually formulated for you! Please see to it! Inconvenience is regretted!
How many times are you
This is a controlled excercise with many restrictions (i.e. use of specific radars/missiles by USAF, and not for IAF). For example, the USAF was not allowed to operate the AN/TPS-77, which alone can change the whole scenario. Also, the USAF deliberately "lost" this excercise so that they could get newer, better aircraft. Shortly after the excercise completed, the congress approved multi-billion dollar contracts to Raytheon, LHM/Boeing, BAE, Northrop Grumman, and many other firms, to produce 100's of JSF's and F-22's (cost of 1 F-22 is over $100 million), which would replace all of the F-15's and F-16's in the USAF. These are funds that the congress never would've approved otherwise.
DUH, it seems you are closesly related to President Bush. You seem to know a lot of things which even high ranking American diplomats and senators don't know. Reading other forums and using the same excuses doesn't help the case in hand. Anyway, the immediate but two post above this by me, a reply to shaz, would tell you how good a SU-30MKI (4.5 generation) is than a F-16 (an obsolete 4th generation plane - soon going to be decommissioned from USAF)!
DUH, it seems you are closesly related to President Bush. You seem to know a lot of things which even high ranking American diplomats and senators don't know. Reading other forums and using the same excuses doesn't help the case in hand. Anyway, the immediate but two post above this by me, a reply to shaz, would tell you how good a SU-30MKI (4.5 generation) is than a F-16 (an obsolete 4th generation plane - soon going to be decommissioned from USAF)!
Buddy, all of this information is available on the net and in the papers. But its funny how you come to forums like these where most people barely know anything about defence, and potray the IAF (and it's inventory) as some mighty, invincible force. If you are going to use this excuse of 'Su-30mki defeating F-15C', atleast provide the variables/restrictions on which the excercise was done.
There is no point in debating whether one unit of plane is better than another, because in real warfare, aerial combat is not done on unit vs unit basis.
Also, I fail to understand why the F-16 is obsolete; please elaborate.
Are you sure that the Russian-American military aircraft generational ratio is 1:1?