[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**I find it very interesting that those who agree with these suicide bombings do not take up the action themselves. Otherwise they wouldn't be posting messages here but in Palestine fighting the Israeli army.
So, I guess they only have the courage to praise the act, not actually do it themselves. I wonder what it shows about their personality.
Is there someone who is willing to walk his talk?**
[/quote]
My Dear, I believe there are numerous MUSLIMS WHO WILL SACRIFICE THERE LIFE IF THEY COULD. WOULD YOU ARRANGE FOR US TO GET TO THE BATTLE GROUND?? Please don't insult my intelligence and URS too by saying we can just take the plane.
Ahmad, Since FARAZ MIR GOT NO BALLS TO ANSWER THIS, WOULD YOU PLEASE ANSWER AND I QUOTE
"Would U be kind enough to explain the difference between Backbitting and Slander Of character from Islamic point of view? What Our Prophet has to say about it?"
The person you had a crush on in your adolescense, and who appeared curt and dismissive towards you, was merely playing "HARD TO GET". This person continius to add to a drawer full of love letters written to you, but not yet sent.**
[This message has been edited by Quasimodo (edited April 09, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Indian_Muslim:
** These are all "Wahhabi" scholars (using your terminology) . How come you bash the Wahhabis at one place, and then quote them at another??
**
[/quote]
I am surprised FM, U HAVEN'T RESPONDED TO THIS ONE. NOT TO MENTION THE QUESTION I ASKED YOU. YOu Wanna be the DEFENDER OF WHOLE MUSLIM RACE AND YET REFUSE TO ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION REGARDING ISLAM. WHAT A PITTY.
The person you had a crush on in your adolescense, and who appeared curt and dismissive towards you, was merely playing "HARD TO GET". This person continius to add to a drawer full of love letters written to you, but not yet sent.**
I believe you really are too masoom to understand this. Just kiddin! Well you are right that its Allah Who is to judge all this but we are blessed with brains by Allah and moreover with the knowledge by Allah using which we can make ijtihad on such matters. I mean we can do that only if we are Mujtahid -which I am sure we are not. Therefore, we must consult a Mujtahid on this matter whether this is actually suicide which Islam has forbidden or whether this is Jihad which is a Fardh(obligation) on Ummah.
We must not adhere to mere guesses and our opinion in such matters.
For those who are saying that dont bring religion to this matter and think what should be the solution for this: Muslims are told to seek all solutions from Islam (more specifically the 4 sources namely Quran, Hadith, Ijma’ and Qiyas). So why should we think from our mind and bring a solution for this matter. We should consult the 4 sources to search for the solution.
And why are we discussing whether what Palestinians are doing is right or not. We better focus on what “we” should be doing to solve this problem. What should we do to solve this problem?
We must work for the establishment of Khilafah(true Islamic State) because there is no Khilafah presently in any piece of land. When a Khilafah is established, it will send armies to help all the oppressed Muslims in any corner of the world just as Khilafah has been doing before. You know the example of Muhammad Bin Qasim who was sent by a Khalifah to help the Muslims captured by Raja Dahir in Sindh. Therefore, Khilafah can solve all the problems of the Ummah as a whole(not only the Palestine problem). And moreover, Khilafah is also a Fardh on the Ummah as we are told that it is “Umm-ul-Faraidh” meaning the mother of all obligations. Khilafah is the mother of all obligations because when under a Khilafah, we can easily fulfil all the other obligations and doing good becomes easy and doing evil is very difficult.
**Conclusion:
Whether Palestinians are doing right or not?
Answer**: We must consult a Mujtahid(or the books of a Mujtahid such as Maulana Moudoodi, a genius of 20th century). We must not adhere to mere guesses and our opinion in such matters.
2. What sould we do in this situation?
Answer: “We” should work for Khilafah because it is the only solution to all problems we are facing presently. Leave what the Palestinians should do!
And Allah Knows Best!!
**Rooh kee gehraai say niklee howee baat
Rooh kee gehraai tak zaroor jaai gee!!
Even if someone agrees that Palestinians should do what they are, it does not justify that we should do the same. Are Palestinians right in doing this: that I will enquire from a Mujtahid. What we should do: well so many people have told you so many times!!!
BlueBell & Quasimodo:
Alhumdulillah, we Muslims still have the love of Jihad and death but I am absolutely sure that this is not what we should do!!
We should not be in search of tel. nos of “Hamas”. Rather we should…
ufff…How many times do I have to tell you???
**Rooh kee gehraai say niklee howee baat
Rooh kee gehraai tak zaroor jaai gee!!
Those who seem to think that they somehow cannot get to Palestine & so its ok to just cheer the poor souls over the internet are cowards! Just like those Mullahs who protested & woe to help the Talaban in the war but when it was time to walk their talk, they sent innocent youth to go fight while they sat in their air conditioned homes!
Do not wish a life for someone else if you cannot lead the way with your example. This is what is commonly known as hypocrisy.
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
***When there is a will, there is a way.*
Those who seem to think that they somehow cannot get to Palestine & so its ok to just cheer the poor souls over the internet are cowards! Just like those Mullahs who protested & woe to help the Talaban in the war but when it was time to walk their talk, they sent innocent youth to go fight while they sat in their air conditioned homes!
Do not wish a life for someone else if you cannot lead the way with your example. This is what is commonly known as hypocrisy.**
[/quote]
DEAR U ASSUME TOO MUCH LIKE FM. THERE R LOT OF OTHERS WAYS WE CAN HELP THEM AND I BELIEVE LOT OF OUR BROTHERS R DOING IT.
Do not wish a life for someone else if you cannot lead the way with your example.
Now Ahmed U R Getting TOO EXCITED. FROM WHERE U GOT THAT PREPOSTEROUS IDEA THAT WE MUSLIM WISH 4 THEM THIS KIND OF HORROR?
Those who seem to think that they somehow cannot get to Palestine..
Ahmed THAT'S WHY WE KINDLY ASKED UR SERVICES. NO NEED TO GET TOUCHY IF U CAN'T HELP, DEAR.
** so its ok to just cheer the poor souls**
ARE U FEELING OK AHMED?? I HOPE U HAVEN'T BEEN DRINKING, RIGHT???? WHO's cheering and why u think that??
Just like those Mullahs who protested & woe to help the Talaban in the war but when it was time to walk their talk, they sent innocent youth to go fight while they sat in their air conditioned homes!
NOW WE SEEM TO BE GETTING TOWARDS THE root OF ur ANGER!
This is what is commonly known as hypocrisy.
So WHEN SOMONE DOESN'T AGREE WITH UR OPINION HE IS A HYPOCRITE. I am AMAZED By UR Intelligence Level, BRAVO.
IN all this Excitement U FORGOT TO ANSWER MY QUESTION OR U SIMPLY GOING TO DISSAPOINT ME LIKE FM. To Refresh UR Memory, I am Quoting it again:
"Would U be kind enough to explain the difference between Backbitting and Slander Of character from Islamic point of view? What Our Prophet has to say about it?"
The person you had a crush on in your adolescense, and who appeared curt and dismissive towards you, was merely playing "HARD TO GET". This person continius to add to a drawer full of love letters written to you, but not yet sent.**
[This message has been edited by Quasimodo (edited April 10, 2002).]
The person you had a crush on in your adolescense, and who appeared curt and dismissive towards you, was merely playing "HARD TO GET". This person continius to add to a drawer full of love letters written to you, but not yet sent.**
[This message has been edited by Quasimodo (edited April 10, 2002).]
Well Quasimodo ........... lets see you dont appear to be a hypocrite ... then why dont you go and blow yourself up for their cause since you support it so diehard.
I think you dont value palestenian lives which is why you are so supportive of them blowing themselves up, seems your mentality is no more palestenians no more problem then rather be among those who should help them out, and stop them from being self destructive in a sensitive time like this. The hypocrisy is so trnasperent in your replies, theres no substance in your replies heavy enough to support their suicidal acts in supporting their cause.
[quote]
Originally posted by LooksCanKill:
**Well Quasimodo ........... lets see you dont appear to be a hypocrite ... then why dont you go and blow yourself up for their cause since you support it so diehard.
I think you dont value palestenian lives which is why you are so supportive of them blowing themselves up, seems your mentality is no more palestenians no more problem then rather be among those who should help them out, and stop them from being self destructive in a sensitive time like this. The hypocrisy is so trnasperent in your replies, theres no substance in your replies heavy enough to support their suicidal acts in supporting their cause.
**
[/quote]
I think you...
U WILL DO ALL US A GREAT FAVOR, IF U STOP THINKING!
ANGER SEEM TO BE PREVENTING UR BRAIN CELLS FROM WORKING. PLEASE TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND NOW BREATH OUT. FEELING BETTER SWEETIE????
Would U be kind enough to define "hypocrite" in UR OWN WORDS DEAR.
NOW ONCE U R COOL DOWN, WHAT SHOULD PHALISTINEANS DO ??? WHAT R THEIR CHOICES??PLEASE, THIS TIME THINK BEFORE U ANSWER.
The person you had a crush on in your adolescense, and who appeared curt and dismissive towards you, was merely playing "HARD TO GET". This person continius to add to a drawer full of love letters written to you, but not yet sent.**
Let me remind you of Sharon’s visit to the muslim holy place with more than one thousand arme troops to provoke the palestinians who threw stones at them because of still the bitter memory of massacres associated with this turdoudge.
Last year alone, 38 jewish settlements were made in Palestinian areas. Heck even the US strined its eye brows. It is Israel which doesnt wanna accept the saudi peace proposal…a definite viable end to the current strife.
But you bet, their (palestinian ) madness will produce results. Now, no matter what happens Israel cannot stop the independance of a palestinian state…there is too much commotion in the arab World. Heck, even in turkey and egypt, people are calling for the cutting of diplomatic relations. Europe os mobolized. And US is but a country which too has to watch its national interst afterall.
Why did the Palestinians reject the Camp David Peace Proposal?
For a true and lasting peace between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples, there must be two viable and independent states living as equal neighbors. Israel’s Camp David proposal, which was never set forth in writing, denied the Palestinian state viability and independence by dividing Palestinian territory into four separate cantons entirely surrounded, and therefore controlled, by Israel. The Camp David proposal also denied Palestinians control over their own borders, airspace and water resources while legitimizing and expanding illegal Israeli colonies in Palestinian territory. Israel’s Camp David proposal presented a ‘re-packaging’ of military occupation, not an end to military occupation.
Didn’t Israel’s proposal give the Palestinians almost all of the territories occupied by Israel in 1967?
No. Israel sought to annex almost 9% of the Occupied Palestinian Territories and in exchange offered only 1% of Israel’s own territory. In addition, Israel sought control over an additional 10% of the Occupied Palestinian Territories in the form of a “long-term lease”. However, the issue is not one of percentages - the issue is one of viability and independence. In a prison for example, 95% of the prison compound is ostensibly for the prisoners - cells, cafeterias, gym and medical facilities - but the remaining 5% is all that is needed for the prison guards to maintain control over the prisoner population.
Similarly, the Camp David proposal, while admittedly making Palestinian prison cells larger, failed to end Israeli control over the Palestinian population.
Did the Palestinians accept the idea of a land swap?
The Palestinians were (and are) prepared to consider any idea that is consistent with a fair peace based on international law and equality of the Israeli and Palestinian peoples. The Palestinians did consider the idea of a land swap but proposed that such land swap must be based on a one-to-one ratio, with land of equal value and in areas adjacent to the border with Palestine and in the same vicinity as the lands to be annexed by Israel. However, Israel’s Camp David proposal of a nine-to- one land swap (in Israel’s favor) was viewed as so unfair as to seriously undermine belief in Israel’s commitment to a fair territorial compromise.
How did Israel’s proposal envision the territory of a Palestinian state?
Israel’s proposal divided Palestine into four separate cantons surrounded by Israel: the Northern West Bank, the Central West Bank, the Southern West Bank and Gaza. Going from any one area to another would require crossing Israeli sovereign territory and consequently subject movement of Palestinians within their own country to Israeli control. Not only would such restrictions apply to the movement of people, but also to the movement of goods, in effect subjecting the Palestinian economy to Israeli control. Lastly, the Camp David proposal would have left Israel in control over all Palestinian borders thereby allowing Israel to control not only internal movement of people and goods but international movement as well. Such a Palestinian state would have had less sovereignty and viability than the Bantustans created by the South African apartheid government.
How did Israel’s proposal address Palestinian East Jerusalem?
The Camp David Proposal required Palestinians to give up any claim to the occupied portion of Jerusalem. The proposal would have forced recognition of Israel’s annexation of all of Arab East Jerusalem. Talks after Camp David suggested that Israel was prepared to allow Palestinians sovereignty over isolated Palestinian neighborhoods in the heart of East Jerusalem, however such neighborhoods would remain surrounded by illegal Israeli colonies and separated not only from each other but also from the rest of the Palestinian state. In effect, such a proposal would create Palestinian ghettos in the heart of Jerusalem. http://www.mediamonitors.net/pnt1.html
[quote]
Originally posted by Quasimodo:
** I think you...
U WILL DO ALL US A GREAT FAVOR, IF U STOP THINKING!
ANGER SEEM TO BE PREVENTING UR BRAIN CELLS FROM WORKING. PLEASE TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND NOW BREATH OUT. FEELING BETTER SWEETIE????
Would U be kind enough to define "hypocrite" in UR OWN WORDS DEAR.
NOW ONCE U R COOL DOWN, WHAT SHOULD PHALISTINEANS DO ??? WHAT R THEIR CHOICES??PLEASE, THIS TIME THINK BEFORE U ANSWER.
**
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Quasi .... Did your girlfriend or someone dump you lately. Is that why you keep calling everyone SWEETIE or DEAR. I first suggest you get your genders straight that might be harder than for any of us to think along your lines.
Well palestenians in truth havent implemented a ceasefire for longer than a period of 2 days I believe, our religion promotes peace not hatred which fuels their cause. Maybe thats why they aren't having any success.
Arafat was on the right path, years ago ... atleast he brought the issue to the international community, between super powers without breeding too much violence but ever since this jackass Hamas group started their activities everything in the palestenian cause started falling apart. As everyone can see what their activities have reduced Arafat to.
I majorly blame the palestenians plight on Hamas, which enunciated this form of fighting tactics ... and sure enough Hamas is lead by fanatic political mullahs.
Our religion is better than that, you know it I know it ... Like Faraz said, this is wrong religiously, morally and legally. And for those who compare the struggle with Kashmir, Kashmiri militants blow up military positions and personnel not civilian occupated lands or facilities.
THAT IS WHY U AND F.M Or shal I say M.F, Bashing on Muslims and so called Wahhabis. BRAVO!
SO MUCH ANGER and HATRED. SWEETIE, I told U to RELAX, UR GETTING TOO EXCITED AGAIN. IN ALL THIS COMOTION, U LOST TRACK OF THE POINT.
NOW TAKE A DEEP BREATH HOLD IT, NOW BREATH OUT. Now take a cold glass of water. I HOPE U R FEELING BETTER DEAR. Now let me repeat my question Again, What Palasteneans SHOULD DO NOW?? What are their OPTIONS??? WHAT DO U Suggest.
The person you had a crush on in your adolescense, and who appeared curt and dismissive towards you, was merely playing “HARD TO GET”. This person continius to add to a drawer full of love letters written to you, but not yet sent.**
Well My first suggestion is Palestenians should broker a ceasefire even though the Israeli’s are at fault. There’s no point in fighting when your heading for evident disaster. Palestenians need more time to strengthen themselves, and with this suicide bombing acts going on they are simply loosing every chance to do so, and the rope is getting tighter around them. The other solution is dependent on other Muslim nations, if they offer unconditional help and declare war if Israel doesnt pull out … that would shift many moods without a doubt. But here’s the downside, if we muslims (specially ones like you) had enough brains to understand this the palestenians fighting cause wouldnt be for a piece of land, and muslim nations wouldnt have differences.
U know I was thinking president Bush’s support for human cloning to cure brain diseases should benefit you a lot. Try looking into the matter … I am sure it will benefit you.
Typical brainwashed tactic of the fanatics. When confronted with logic and reason that suicide is haraam, attack the messenger instead of the message and try to appeal to the sympathy of Muslims by using emotion.
Well sorry their paco, but suicide is harram, whether one likes or not. But of course Palestinians are very passionate about their cause and their mullahs will declare anything as halal as long as it benefits their cause. And I don’t blame them for this r4eally, cause they are indeed in a desperate situation. But no matter what idiot mullahs should not exploit the people by giving them false interpretations of Islam. But Mullahs everywhere are like this, they use emotion, because that is the only thing they know. Most mullahs are backward and ignorant and do not Islam all that well, so they need to use emotion to keep their poor subjects in line.
Sadly, even the “educated” Muslim gets trapped up the emotional diatribe of Mullahs because most Muslims clearly feel sorry for the Palestinians. I do too, but I know that to be a Muslim I have to trust Allah and not my natural human instincts to support Palestinians unconditionally. There is a reason why Islam gives us moral and ethical guidelines to follow, it is so that we do suppress are own human instincts which sometimes can be dangerous.
So, it is my duty it educated the ignorant and the misled Muslim and take them to the right path, away from hatred and revenge. Revenge is not a Muslim trait and must be shunned. So, this is just not my opinion, but the question of misuse of Islam and it is my duty to undo those who are misusing Islam for their nationalist political purposes. I can’t just remain silent and let extremists hijack my religion.
If we even refuse to follow the very basic tenets of Islam, what right to we have to call ourselves Muslims and thus claim the upper moral hand? If tomorrow some ignorant Arab mullah says that all Muslim men must rape non-Muslim women to avenge humiliation of Muslims in Bosnia or wherever, will you throw away what Islam teaches and start raping kafir women? No, of course not. We have to use some logic and brain power of our own to interpret Islam and killing innocent civilians even in self-defense, or committing suicide even during Jihad is NOT ALLOWED. There are something’s that are ALWAYS FORBIDDEN, no matter what.
If we let go of these basic values that Islam teaches, then we are lost as human beings and Muslims only in name.
My first suggestion is Palestenians should broker a ceasefire even though the Israeli’s are at fault.
Would someone Please kindly TRANSLATE THE ABOVE SENTENCE in ENGLISH! what is and I quote “should broker a ceasefire..” Sweetie, I TOLD U TO THINK BEFORE WRITING BUT OOPS SORRY AGAIN, For thinking U NEED a very important something
The person you had a crush on in your adolescense, and who appeared curt and dismissive towards you, was merely playing “HARD TO GET”. This person continius to add to a drawer full of love letters written to you, but not yet sent.**
Does anyone here know anything about Istishaa, that is not suicide but to sacrfice ur self to kill an enemy of islam and killer of muslim.. Plz all of u who say that bombing enemy of islam and destroyer of muslim people is suicidal. tell me what istishaa is???
[quote]
Originally posted by Badboodaar Moza: Does anyone here know anything about Istishaa, that is not suicide but to sacrfice ur self to kill an enemy of islam and killer of muslim.. Plz all of u who say that bombing enemy of islam and destroyer of muslim people is suicidal. tell me what istishaa is???
[/quote]
Why don't you tell us?