Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
true that Jolie, mayussi Kafur hai ... people are bashing Pakistan like no tomorrow!! ... im sorry guys ... but there are so many other countries who are in far worse shape, look at Bangladesh or other muslims countries!! poverty and corruption is at the highest!! ... point is dont lose hope in your own people, i see tremendous hope in the people!! ... these rulers wont save the country !! we will!!
... we have the potential ... and we will bounce back, just like we always do :)
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
did you read my complete reply .. ??
let us divide the reply in mini sections - so it will be easy for both of us to comprehend .. Pardon my ignorance but I am peela school chap - cant help it much :)
The guy who is not able to afford 8000 fee for 1 term can't afford to raise his kids in any other country buy pakistan .. ..
elaborate it for me ...
Are you saying , because he has no resources to move some where else and thus he is stuck in this country , so your man has no choice but to stay and raise his yokes in Pakistan ?
read this before you reply. This thread is being discussed for OVERSEAS pakistani's whose income is 100 times more than 6000 RS/PM and they pay all of the taxes. UET/PU and even LUMS/IBA is within their reach. When they say that pakistan doesn't have a class of education then it doesn't make sense.
for raising my kid - I need to be in that freaking place innit ?
so me moves back to Pakistan Oh damn me already here from a year or so ] - and couldnt find a decent way of living , lose my job - couldnt start a business nixer due to economic conditions - How am I going to even afford that 16 grand per Annum ?
So economic instability is one of the factors including many other already stated on this thread - which stops many of us even thinking to raise our kids in Pakistan :)
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
but job guarantee tu kaheen bhi nahi hoti, ... there are tons of guys here in quebec who hav done masters or bachelors in business/marketing or other fields, yet they are jobless and are switching their careers/studying futher in something else or either they are moving somewhere else!!
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
true that Jolie, mayussi Kafur hai ... people are bashing Pakistan like no tomorrow!! ... im sorry guys ... but there are so many other countries who are in far worse shape, look at Bangladesh or other muslims countries!! poverty and corruption is at the highest!! ... point is dont lose hope in your own people, i see tremendous hope in the people!! ... these rulers wont save the country !! we will!!
... we have the potential ... and we will bounce back, just like we always do :)
Bangladesh - You must be joking ... you know half of your Pakistani textile industry has moved to Bangladesh ... they even come here to recruit your graduates now ...
Their economy is not as bad as their cricket :D
And we will bounce back - O yea like we did in 1948 , when we lost kashmir , in 1971 when we lost east pakistan ....
Keep the potential aside -- All major parties of pakistan now think ' the creation of Pakistan ' as a mistake ...
ANP - read wali khan's book Facts are Facts - The untold story of Pakistan
for Altaf and MQM - The creation of pakistan has been the biggest blunder
PPP - you know them - what you want me to say
and now Muslim league - the party behind creation of pakistan - check nawaz's statment dated 13th August 2011... to him the border is just a freaking line - they love alooo Gosht , so do we ...
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
but job guarantee tu kaheen bhi nahi hoti, ... there are tons of guys here in quebec who hav done masters or bachelors in business/marketing or other fields, yet they are jobless and are switching their careers/studying futher in something else or either they are moving somewhere else!!
while living on dole or social security :) arent they ?
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
let us divide the reply in mini sections - so it will be easy for both of us to comprehend .. Pardon my ignorance but I am peela school chap - cant help it much :)
elaborate it for me ...
Are you saying , because he has no resources to move some where else and thus he is stuck in this country , so your man has no choice but to stay and raise his yokes in Pakistan ?
for raising my kid - I need to be in that freaking place innit ?
so me moves back to Pakistan Oh damn me already here from a year or so ] - and couldnt find a decent way of living , lose my job - couldnt start a business nixer due to economic conditions - How am I going to even afford that 16 grand per Annum ?
So economic instability is one of the factors including many other already stated on this thread - which stops many of us even thinking to raise our kids in Pakistan :)
That helped.
I am not sure if you are living USA or somehwere else but i am assuming that you are (hypothetically).
so since you were living in USA, you left USA when economic crisis came .. .. did you?
so you are planning to leave usa with recent crisis which is about to come .. will you?
I am not looking for a detail answer .. .. just yes/no ..
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
@Naabigh: we can go on and with this endless discussoin. The point which i was trying to make in my last post that Allah nay rizq muqarar kiya hai wo hum ko milna hi milna hai .. .. it doesn't matter if we are living in the most stable country of the world or living in zimbabwe .. ..
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
That helped.
I am not sure if you are living USA or somehwere else but i am assuming that you are (hypothetically).
so since you were living in USA, you left USA when economic crisis came .. .. did you?
so you are planning to leave usa with recent crisis which is about to come .. will you?
I am not looking for a detail answer .. .. just yes/no ..
Although I dont feel like discussing my self on a public forum - but let us do it for the sake of argument ...
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
Sure. Unlike you I'm not denying that all these problems don't exist in these countries and I find myself and other muslim parents handling it very well so yes it comes down to your parenting skills.
Someone who said about "hit and run" on road quoted his Pakistani cousin so not everyone in Pakisatn thinks like you especially when they don't have the options, unlike you.
If I ask from a lower class person he'd have a totally different picture so I'm gonna leave it to that.
Hareem01, where in my post was I found doubting anyones parenting skills? And what makes you think I'm in denial of the flaws in my country, where?
Quoting someone literally means the person found the news credible and reliable enough, perhaps why we find him/her using it as an example against Pakistan and on perhaps a Pakistani forum.
And lastly, when were classes ever mentioned anywhere? This topic was about raising kids, no?
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
true that Jolie, mayussi Kafur hai ... people are bashing Pakistan like no tomorrow!! ... im sorry guys ... but there are so many other countries who are in far worse shape, look at Bangladesh or other muslims countries!! poverty and corruption is at the highest!! ... point is dont lose hope in your own people, i see tremendous hope in the people!! ... these rulers wont save the country !! we will!!
... we have the potential ... and we will bounce back, just like we always do :)
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
Now coming on some statistics. The United States has the highest levels of lifetime illegal cocaine and marijuana use, the United States also has the highest rate of lifetime tobacco use but comes in third in alcohol use, behind the Ukraine and Germany. Going on this, why should I choose to raise my son there.
The United States has the world's highest rape rate of the countries that publish such statistics. It's 4 times higher than Germany, 13 times higher than England, and 20 times higher than Japan. Again, what makes anyone think raising a daughter there would be a good idea? There are so many other examples. Evidently, no country is perfect, it all comes down to what you choose for yourself and your children.
Stats are only effective if things get documented and recorded.
Pakistan has no such track record.
How many cases of drug use go un-reported?
How many cases of Gang rapes and rapes sanctioned by tribal elders goes un-reported?
I cannot live in a country where it is the country's laws to discriminate against women and anyone who chooses to get rid of those abhorrent laws gets assassinated and the assassin is cheered upon.
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
Just as people switch jobs, move to another city and so on, people move to other countries as well and there is nothing wrong with that. In developed countries usually there are more opportunities, better job prospects, higher living standards, greater diversity, and better security than in a developing country like Pakistan. For example, here in the states we believe in the American dream. It does not matter if you were born into a poor household, raised by a single mom, or belong to a minority group, you can achieve great things and become prosperous--even become the president of your country--if you work hard and persevere. Yes it will be hard but you can. And that is why I will raise my children in the US. Because I appreciate, among other things, that in my country status is usually achieved rather than ascribed at birth and that meritocracy is held in high esteem. The same, sadly, cannot be said about Pakistan. At least not yet.
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
Theek. The signature you have, I know its from animal farm, but on a serious note, would you consider it to be justified on the whole and in real life?
Whilst reading this thread after a GS break I saw this post ... now a slight off topic point but it is important that it gets answered ... This statement "all animals are equal but some are more equal than others" is a statement in irony ... It is supposed to be relating to what is observed NOT what is the ideal ... the ideal being equality ... but when society allows itself to freely or randomly arrive at equality it doesn't ... what happens is that it naturally creates order and rank ... more influential people become leaders and others followers ... some people seek out who to follow ... so it is true that this phenomenon exists which means the lesson herein is "don't try to force equality" it won't work. Or rather don't think that equality means making everyone the same ... leaders and followers are equal in rights, but are never equal in all aspects.
Coming back to the topic of the thread ... it is a related thing as to why people may not want to go to live in Pakistan ... First of all it is very hot there most of the year ... this argument is void for those who live in the UAE or other hot climates ... but generally speaking other than this it is a lifestyle that people who live in the West cannot adjust to easily ...
Other than these real reasons there is a significant "image" factor ... Pakistan is not considered a developed country even though it has nukes ... and the natural order of man is to desire the best and he looks up to the leaders ... the West being the weight behind international laws it is not surprising that people wish to remain here.
In general people who want to have servants, get AC driven cars and have lavish lifestyles tend to want to live in Pakistan as opposed to the UK for example, but this is because those people live a working class life in the West ... There are some people who live a middle class or upper working class life in the West and then the lifestyle difference begins to reduce. Apart from servants (which in the west are really only available to the upper middle class and high class), all and more facilities are available and furthermore enough is left behind to support the family as well. Given the weather it begins to make little sense to go to Pakistan as lifestyle in the West improves due to breaking class barriers.
Religion is not a valid point - it is often used as a reason but it is not ... religion can be sought effectively in every climate in every nation ... that is the beauty of living in the modern age. Communication has brought a death to distance. I think Sister Niksik has some very valid points ... it is considerably difficult to be diverse and have individual flare and seek uniqueness in personality in an environment which is herd like ... and as a result it is also difficult to seek out Islam where everyone is Muslim but have very different ideals and behaviours. There is no suitable contrast. It is not to say there are no good role models there ... they are however more hidden.
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
Isn't that true that girls who only like watching star plus and geo are bimbos?
Hareem Baji,
What guarantees that girls only watch this stuff here?
I am so tired of generalizations & stereotyping in this thread. People any where in the world may watch dirty shows, weird mentality stuff, porn, what ever ... that's their personal choice.
*The problem is Pakistanis themselves think that Pakistan is a crap place to live in and therefore will find every other XYZ reason linked or not linked to their justification to live some where else. If its ones personal choice, why is there so much bashing for the country you left for which ever reasons? *
There was this girl in this thread who after spending a decade abroad opted to come to Pakistan but did she bash those particular countries for their norms? culture? style? 'TV SHOWS'? They were just not in sync with hers. Peace.
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
Stats are only effective if things get documented and recorded.
Pakistan has no such track record.
How many cases of drug use go un-reported?
How many cases of Gang rapes and rapes sanctioned by tribal elders goes un-reported?
I cannot live in a country where it is the country's laws to discriminate against women and anyone who chooses to get rid of those abhorrent laws gets assassinated and the assassin is cheered upon.
This is not a country, its a Freak Show.
Stats are stats, no denying them in the end.
Pakistan has a track record, one would just need to look it up, like I did. Amnesty for one, has quiet a few face palm moments when it comes to Pakistan.
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
true that Jolie, mayussi Kafur hai ... people are bashing Pakistan like no tomorrow!! ... im sorry guys ... but there are so many other **countries who are in far worse shape, look at Bangladesh **or other muslims countries!!poverty and corruption is at the highest!! ... point is dont lose hope in your own people, i see tremendous hope in the people!! ... these rulers wont save the country !! we will!!
... we have the potential ... and we will bounce back, just like we always do :)
Lol, you've obviously never even been to Bangladesh if you think it's in far worse shape than Pakistan (it's actually funny I only ever hear Pakistanis from 'back home' who like to say this).. Anyone objective can see their economy is going forwards (obviously the textiles industry in particular), there are far fewer issues in terms of security (terrorism, bomb blasts etc are v.v.v.rare and dealt with properly eg in the case of the terrorist Bangla Bhai) and there are far fewer restictions for women in terms of them being able to go out shopping, going to the bazaar alone etc.. The general attitude towards Islam is far more relaxed (Bangladesh is nearly always described as a 'moderate' Muslim country) and religion is seen more as a personal issue.. I've heard other westerners say on the surface it seems more like a Hindu country than a Muslim one.. Hijab isn't common in most parts of the capital and I've literally not seen a single burqa in the week or two I visit the place tho of course in the villages it's a totally different matter.. Bangladesh does have serious problems in terms of corruption, distribution of wealth, load shedding and so on but to say it's in far worse shape than Pakistan is a lie..
**
Having family members in **both countries I honestly wouldn't want my kids to be brought up in either Pakistan or Bangladesh but if push came to shove and I had to I would prob choose Bangladesh simply because apart from the fact that terrorism, bomb blasts etc aren't really an issue the culture would be less restrictive if I had daughters.. The more moderate Islam they follow appeals to me more and the caste system is non-existent as are issues of only being allowed to marry within the family and so on (bar the Sylheti ppl who are generally much more conservative)..
(Btw for those posters who need a reality check and a measure of what life is really like living in Bangladesh a middle-class apartment in Dhanmondi, Dhaka would cost about the same as buying a comparable apartment in a middle-class part of Manchester or Liverpool in the UK. You wouldn't be able to buy a detached house in a middle-class part of Dhaka with the same money)
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
i wouldnt raise my kids in pakistani because 1- ITS SO UNSAFE! bomb-blasts, shootings, rapes, child molestation is just so common there! and you cant do anything about it
2- the environment so unhealthy, pollution, garmi, loadshedding
3- people are always under stress and depressions, be it in schools(always competeing to get a higher position then the other, or lack of jobs, or all the family fights and all, society pressure, government issues, religious pressure
4- people over there are hypocrites
5- people cannot develop a normal personality, somehow they are all alike ! i dont know how to explain this poiint but yea its irritating
**6- religion over there is mostly followed for just basics like reading namaz 5 times and pardah and all. i have not come across many people who follow religion for other in details such as hwo to respect a women and what not. not allbut most of them are not really spiritually religious.
7-lack of multiculturalism or respect for other cultures/religious. rarely have i come across a christian in pakistan who doesnt work as a janitor.
8- not much out there for kids to grow up without being depressed. not many educational things.
one main reason i definetely wouldnt my kids to grow up there because my daughters would never be independent and constantly be bothered and followed by chichoray boys on their way to school and stuff! and my son would probably come another loser men in pakistan who treats women like crap and does all the crazy stuff outside and when he comes home he wants his sisters n mom in pardah. ughhhh!**
Agree..
I can't really see the point of being religious on the outside but then prejudiced/intolerant against Blacks, Indians or whoever else or not being fair or compassionate in general.. That spiritual goodness doesn't seem to hold as much importance imo..
And what makes you think I’m not more concerned about the British media? And yes I live in Britain and I have a Pakistani passport and I was asked a question if I would return back to raise my kids here, it’s true that I can protect my kids from crappy tv hosts and shows but it doesn’t change the fact that Pakistani media has changed a lot and as a result people have changed a lot too. It’s just not the same it used to be 10 years ago. It hasn’t improved, in fact, it has gone crazy. And this is MY perception and I don’t think you or anyone else here can change that because you have no idea how I feel, okay. So yeah I will say whatever I like even if it sounds like bashing to some of you.
And I’m not the sort of person who obsesses over tv or film personalities …sahir and shaista were just an example otherwise Paki channels in UK are full of crap too.
…sahir and shaista were just an example otherwise Paki channels in UK are full of crap too.