Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
Not a fan of musharaf but if he had considered himself firon or khudai fojdaar, only blasting his plane in air (with bombs in ‘amoon ki peti’) could get us rid of him–
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
As I said, he is using it as technical defense. perhaps, he didn't issue written orders.
So, he lied?
Why should one deny involvement with something one thinks was the right thing to do?
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
Those arrested in the aftermath of the Lal Masjid operation have since been released by the freaking judiciary on the basis of lacking evidence. They have since been involved in dacoity and other subversive activities. Judiciary doesnt just need reforms, it needs overhaul before the writ of the state can be reinforced thru judicial process.
I agree with you. Because of our judiciary the army has to undertake illegal acts which sometimes further aggravates the situation. The judiciary has unfortunately not sentenced even one criminal (Malik Ishaq and Sufi Muhammad are glaring examples). Reason being the witnesses and judges are scared, there should be witness and judge protection laws if the state really wants to punish those responsible for murdering Pakistanis.
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
so he was taking revenge of NS from everyone in Pakistan 
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
saath kuch aor bhi nikla tha:)
Mosuf sub se phelay America ke pakkay shidaee thay. magar public ko bewaqoof bananay ke liay “sub se pehlay Pakistan” likh dala.
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
Let me tell what they **actually **were:
1) Terrorists.
2) Inciting fassad in the name of Islam.
3) Gathered sophisticated weaponry not just for self-defense but to the extent as if they have a war at hand
4) Murderers. murdered civilians and member of forces including lt. col. haroon ul islam. pls note that lt. col was killed before SSG entered the mosque. He was overseeing blasting of peripheral walls
5) Asked to lay down their arms and surrender to authorities but they wanted to go scot-free. Negotiations conducted. but nothing worked out.
Also do you know, maulana aziz remained the official khatib of the masjid until he was removed in 2005 for issuing a controversial fatwa stating no Pakistani Army officer could be given an Islamic burial if died fighting the taliban. (wikipedia)
This is your position. Fine.
No proof that they were terrorists, murderers or rapists.
Care to tell who those men raped?
Seriously?
Please read below also.
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
There is a talk of Govt. writ.
What is it in the context of this sad event?
Bunch of people got themselves surrounded in a Masjid.
They protested against what they felt is wrong with Govt. not following the Islamic rules.
They were surrounded. Not by the police but the control was taken by the army.
They were accused of having relation with ‘bad’ guys outside. Not proven.
Negotiations were repeatedly rejected by the Presidential house.
An ultimatum was given out of nowhere and for no legitimate reason.
Action was taken unnecessarily and ended up destruction and death of people.
Please read the thread on Lal Masjid. Also listen to the last interview of A.R. Ghazi.
Lal Masjid Ghazi Abdur Rasheed Shaheed interview 9(Last Int) - YouTube
**He does not from even remote possibility sounds a murderer, rapist or terrorist.
No matter what anyone says or believe.
**
The guy just had no trust on the promises.
Maybe the negotiation team was incapable of giving full assurance to him.
But no one can take Musharraf off the hook for being stubborn and escalating the issue.
**There was no reason to give an ultimatum and raid the Masjid. Period.
it was not that by every day or hours, innocent people were dying from those people in charge inside the Masjid. No.
Plenty of time was still there for negotiation and resolving the issue peacefully.**
Musharraf is guilty for having to continue to use force which was not called for. Why even have Army involved to begin with???
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
I don't even think you have to be genius to figure out that it was one hellova poorly planned operation. Musharraf knew all along what was going on in laal masjid and if he was sincere he would've made genuine efforts to control extremism from spreading in the country, not just in laal masjid. The last minute pseudo commando show was put on to gain some brownie points to save his sinking ship. Otherwise laal masjid made ZERO, absolutely ZERO difference in controlling terrorism and extremism in the country. Laal masjid operation brought a whole new unprecedented wave of extremism and terrorism in the country and that's the bottom line.
If only that cartoon commando had planned the operation wisely and came up with effective strategies to deal with the expected aftermath to save more lives.
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
This is your position. Fine.
No proof that they were terrorists, murderers or rapists.
Care to tell who those men raped?
Seriously?
Please read below also.
pls read my post again. where did I call them rapists?
In a previous post, I wrote rapists in a general way not pointing towards lal-masjid folks. I thought it is pretty self-explanatory
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
So, he lied?
Why should one deny involvement with something one thinks was the right thing to do?
Yeah, why should one say that?! After all, we all know that there are his buddies sitting in judiciary, and government. Still he would deny it?!
You can't understand the reason why he would deny his involvement in front of his friends in judiciary, and I can't understand it either. So that makes two of us.
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
pls read my post again. where did I call them rapists? In a previous post, I wrote rapists in a general way not pointing towards lal-masjid folks. I thought it is pretty self-explanatory
You talked about murderers and rapists in this thread. Out of context is what I said.
Also sad thing is you said "open fire to own citizens". This should not be promoted or suggested. There are better ways to deal with people who are proven to be criminals.
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
^ isey kehtay hain baal ki khal utarna
Either you need to work on your comprehension skills or I need to work on my writing skills.
in response, I said
I repeated his words “open fire to own citizens” followed by a “hoonh” from my side. pls note “are also” used with “murderers, thugs, rapists”
you definitely need to work on your comprehension skills.
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
TLK said** own citizens**.
He did not bring any quality other than being citizens.
YOU and only YOU brought examples of murderers, thugs and rapists…out of context.
There was no need to add qualities and justify opening fire on citizens.
Your smilie of “hoonh” is vague and not giving a message of disapproval.
Now you get it?
Come on, why did I even have to explain it. 
Forget anything above FOR A MOMENT ONLY:
Say or type below:
" All accused murderers, thugs and rapists deserve punishment according to the acceptable law of the land ONLY IF PROVEN, and should not ever be fired or bombed upon and be killed without going through acceptable justice process. Any act of them being killed without due open and transparent legal process is wrong."
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
Is this the same “darta warta kisi say nahi hoon” fame guy? in uncle ko ab kia hogaya? 
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
I don't want to keeping explaining things that a ten year old can understand well. you are merely wasting your energies for no reason. What I said is pretty clear. Jis nay samjhna tha woh samjh gaya
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
diwana,
pls state your stance in clear words as what do you think of the guys in lal mosque.
You keep on saying that due process of law should have been exercised. Why then they not surrender themselves to the authorities so that their case could be heard by the judiciary.
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
[QUOTE]
" All accused murderers, thugs and rapists deserve punishment according to the acceptable law of the land ONLY IF PROVEN, and should not ever be fired or bombed upon and be killed without going through acceptable justice process. Any act of them being killed without due open and transparent legal process is wrong."
[/QUOTE]
until then the outlaws should be given a free hand as they can kill whoever they want to, abduct whoever they want to, and should not be touched but encouraged by saying to them that "unless you are proven guilty, you are innocent". What happens in any part of the civilized world when someone takes law in his hand and despite warnings don't surrender himself to the law enforcing agencies of the state.
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
The clear stance on the people cannot be deduced.
Except that they were asking for nothing against Islamic rule.
Anyone is free to prove here if they think they were against Islamic Rules. Be my guest.
Too bad they were not asking for Mirza Ghulam Ahmed be given the highest respect in the country and the world.
Otherwise Mr. Chughtiati woud be jumping up and down to support those “murderer, thugs ad so called rapists”. And They were not fighting for A-Salaam grave be turned in to the center of the earth. JK. 
**
Oh those damn Muslims!!! Deserve to die just like common murderers, thugs and rapists.** :
Had those people by any remote chance been Ahmadis, YOU Mr. K-Chughtai would not even been arguing on this matter.
Yes, with Ahmadi teaching you are not suppose to fight against wrong,… does not mean your hiding the real emotions and bending on knees and hands to let wrong take the advantage is good either.
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
kar Lao gal
Re: I did not order Lal masjid operation: Musharraf
I believe the lal masjid folks should have been punished through the judicial process for challenging the writ of the state. Sadly the country has a dysfunctional judicial system. Going around kidnapping and beating people, threatening government of suicide attacks, and capturing libraries are not peaceful means to implement shariah in the country.