Huge fight with husband

[Iconoclast]

Re: Huge fight with husband

I did not take a dig at your family...never mentioned the women in your household.

Please stop.

Islam is NOT Pakistani culture. The two are WORLDS apart. The responsibility towards one's parents does not originate in Pakistan, its in Islam. And I think you need to read my posts more carefully. I said giving your parents money through husband would be considered embarrassing for them. Its not about them being a girl's parents or guy's. Why would you even think of putting someone older than you in that kind of spot?

Parents do not 'take' from their kids. They GIVE everything to them while raising them. One day when they are old and gray, those kids can simply try and give a little back.

Aap Pakistani ho na? Pakistan mein baray aur chotay mein farq to sikhaya jata hoga? Izzat bhi sikhai gayi hogi. Maan baap ki farma bardari bhi sikhai gayi hogi. To vo sab kahan hai abhi? Pakistan mein chor aye kya?

Why am I going through the manual with you?

The basic issue here is that men think a woman's parents have no place in her life after marriage. No right to expect anything from their daughter.

And if that is Pakistani culture...then its a shame.

I can qoute the post where u did bit i will let it go.

Pakistan meiN hamaiN buzurgooN ji izzat aur farman bardari sikhai gaye thi aur ye bhi sikhaya gya tha ke, behen aur beti ko hamesha detey haiN, un se letey kuch nahiN.

If u had read my first couple of posts, i never said that its wrong for her to think of her parents nor i said that her husband was right to object to it. What i did say is that parents shudn't accept money from their married daughters. Never claimed that Islam says so, its a cultural thing. And in my opinion its a noble thing for a man not to take anything from her sisters and daughters. If some people are happy in doing so, its up to them, for me i will prefer to starve then to take money from my daughter.

[Reha]

Re: Huge fight with husband

I can qoute the post where u did bit i will let it go.

Pakistan meiN hamaiN buzurgooN ji izzat aur farman bardari sikhai gaye thi aur ye bhi sikhaya gya tha ke, behen aur beti ko hamesha detey haiN, un se letey kuch nahiN.

If u had read my first couple of posts, i never said that its wrong for her to think of her parents nor i said that her husband was right to object to it. What i did say is that parents shudn't accept money from their married daughters. Never claimed that Islam says so, its a cultural thing. And in my opinion its a noble thing for a man not to take anything from her sisters and daughters. If some people are happy in doing so, its up to them, for me i will prefer to starve then to take money from my daughter.

Its about perspective and baroN ki izzat which is lost these days.

Its noble for a man not to take money from his sisters and daughters. But its a very shameful thing if your parents or your wife's parents are in need and you feel it against your morals to help because they are "larki ke maa baap aur is vaja se vo larki se kuch le nahin saktay". That is wrong.

Larki unki aulaad hai aur khidmat unka bhi haqq hai...ya vo is haqq ko bhool jayein kyun ke unko Shanzai ke husband jaise damaad milay hein? Unke betay nahin hein?

You're forgetting a large population of people on this planet who do not have sons...only daughters and sometimes only one daughter. Some are not well off. Some are ill.

Who takes care of them? Nursing homes? Welfare?

I don't think so. If my (or anyone's) parents need something and I cannot be there for them in whatever way...its something to be ashamed of.

[WendyDarling]

Re: Huge fight with husband

It's not like her parents are taking her money. God!! SHE is giving it to them!!! That's the least she can do after all they have done for her.
This is one of many things that bothers me about Pakistani culture.
God forbid you ever need help financially, but if that day ever comes I doubt you'd "prefer to starve" rather than accepting help from your daughter.

[bebo]

Re: Huge fight with husband

Being the eldest daughter of parents who have no sons.....I'm truly saddened by many of the responses here. I'm blessed to have a husband who has absolutely no issues with me helping my parents out financially (hubby has absolutely no need for my money). I pray to God that my sisters also end up with men that hold similar views.

Would you be contributing the same if you had brothers who were taking care of your parents? If your parents really did not need your money?

[bebo]

Re: Huge fight with husband

^ Iconoclast- there is a contradiction. "Taking money from married daughter not honorable". "Parents expect their kids to take care of them".

IMO one side thinks parents taking money not honorable. the other side contends whatever the daughter makes is her own money. So she can do as she pleases. She does not have to share details with husband. Both sides use culture and what is permitted in religion to defend their position.

**What is missed is - husband and wife are a team. For middle class to have view such as husband should support family and wife can do as she pleases is not practical. And parents accepting money from daughter is not honorable is outdated.

The wife and husband - as equals- plan budget and discuss prourities for spending**. And at the top would be helping parents.

Its is so very simple yet somehow people are unable to comprehend.

[Reha]

Re: Huge fight with husband

Would you be contributing the same if you had brothers who were taking care of your parents? If your parents really did not need your money?

bebo, that is kind of the point here.

What you speak of is an ideal situation but is it realistic for everyone? Does everyone have a son? And even if they have a son...is that son responsible enough to balance his parents and his wife/kids? Is he even financially capable to taking care of everyone?

I will say though that if I had brothers...I'd still feel responsible for my parents. Having brothers does not mean you're no longer required to care for them in whatever way they needed.

[bebo]

Re: Huge fight with husband

^Fair enough!
I was just wondering if girls would feel the same financial responsibility if their parents are being taken care of.

[payal_sharma]

Re: Huge fight with husband

There is no contradiction, its expected of kids to take care of the parents, for boys to take care both financially and physically while for girls only physically. Its not considered appropriate for parentsto to accept married daughter's income . However, its true that a girls money is her money and she can spend it where ever she wants, but most parenst won't accpet financial help from their married daughters.

But WHY is it considered inappropriate ??? Ok for once lets blame the Hindus/ Indians here , isnt it hindu/ indian culture that "ekk baar ladki ki shaadi ho gayi toh uske ghar ka paani bhi nahi petain" ????

If we keep sticking to notions like theses, do u expect society to change for the betterment ever??

For eg : Girls have to give dowry coz its not appropriate if they go empty handed ?? Log kya kahenge ??
For eg : Girls should not study too much, coz it will be difficult getting a boy for her
For eg : Girl must be extremely fair and good looking, who wants a kaali-kaluti bahu
Fro eg : Beta nahi hai, sirf beti???? aapka kya hoga budhape mein !!!!

Your clubbing it in the group just by saying "oh its not considered appropriate haww hai, dekho kaise maap baap hai chee chee !!!!!" You are not giving a logical reason.

The OP is clearly saying, that she is saving for the tuition as he is not going to pay for her education, she only helps out her family sometimes.

I don't how we can advise people of donating certain percentage of their income to the poor and needy but if the same is directed to ones own parents because its not considered appropriate ??

Whether your parents need your help or not, giving money to them should not even be an issue. If our parents can go beyond giving us roti/kapda/makaan, then why can't we ?? Kids don't need ipads and iphones but parents give it to them, so cant kids do something for their parents when they are old even if there is no need for it?

[payal_sharma]

Re: Huge fight with husband

I can qoute the post where u did bit i will let it go.

Pakistan meiN hamaiN buzurgooN ji izzat aur farman bardari sikhai gaye thi aur ye bhi sikhaya gya tha ke, behen aur beti ko hamesha detey haiN, un se letey kuch nahiN.

If u had read my first couple of posts, i never said that its wrong for her to think of her parents nor i said that her husband was right to object to it. What i did say is that parents shudn't accept money from their married daughters. Never claimed that Islam says so, its a cultural thing. And in my opinion its a noble thing for a man not to take anything from her sisters and daughters. If some people are happy in doing so, its up to them, for me i will prefer to starve then to take money from my daughter.

This is why daughters are not welcome in our desi culture . Coz you will be a dead man in the future , god forbid should something happen to you in the future even your rich daughter will just have to see you starve to death.

Does it emasculate you ( or other men who think this way) in some way ?? I'm not targeting you personally here , its the thought I'm targeting as you are not alone in thinking this way.

So if were starving and say your daughter brought you some food ( bought from her money) and say a strange man who is a muslim ( a very good one, a loving father /husband/son/citizen) brought you some food, would you pick A) daughter and B) stranger.

Should you pick B what justification would you give your daughter ?

[Paheli00]

Re: Huge fight with husband

If your parents really did not need your money?

I'm not sure how this is in any way relevant to this thread. Do you know any man or woman who financially supports parents DESPITE the parents not actually needing it? Personally, I don't. If my parents didn't have a need for outside financial assistance, then why would I waste my time/energy worrying about it?

Would you be contributing the same if you had brothers who were taking care of your parents?

Having a brother doesn't somehow exempt me from making sure that my parents NEEDS are met. If I had a brother who insisted on taking 100% financial responsiblity for my parents and could do so while still taking care of his own family (ie. wife/kids), then by all means I'd let him. If he couldn't do it 100%, then I'd allow him to do whatever he felt he could do, and do the rest myself. Or if my brother was a jerk who just chose to not help, then I'd step in and do it.

But I wouldn't have an "expectation" that my brother bear 100% of the financial burden just b/c he's a man. Whether its a daughter or son, both share equal responsibility to take care of their parents.

^Fair enough! I was just wondering if girls would feel the same financial responsibility if their parents are being taken care of.

Again, this is no different than what a man would feel. My in-laws are wealthy and will never need any money from anyone. My husband and his brother do not support them in any way OR even worry about it....b/c they know for a fact that financially, their parents have more than enough. I don't know any man who feels any financial responsiblity towards his parents IF he knows for a fact that his parents do not need any financial assistance. This shouldn't be any different for women. This feeling of financial responsiblity comes from the knowledge that the parents actually need outside help to meet their needs.

[Paheli00]

Re: Huge fight with husband

What i did say is that parents shudn't accept money from their married daughters. And in my opinion its a noble thing for a man not to take anything from her sisters and daughters. If some people are happy in doing so, its up to them, for me** i will prefer to starve then to take money from my daughter**.

I'm curious how far you'd go to practice this belief:

Would you prevent your wife from accepting money from your married daughter even if there was a need for it?

If your wife needed a life saving surgery and you didn't have the money but your married daughter did, would you still refuse the money knowing your wife would die without it?

Let's say its a situation where God forbid you needed money for basic necessities like rent, electricity etc....would you rather your wife be homeless with you than to accept that help? OR would you move out of the house if your wife accepted the money to pay rent?

Since you'd CHOOSE death over accepting money from your daughter....in that decision, would you care at all about the pain/heartache your wife would feell? Heck would you care at all about the pain your daughter would feel at losing her father?

I'm sorry but this is such a selfish view. In this scenario, it seems like its all about you (ie. the "man"). The feelings and needs of the wife, or the daughter are completely ignored. Heck if you have sons who for whatever reason are not capable of helping you, then you're also ignoring their feelings/needs too.

My nana died when my mom was in 8th grade, and I know 'til this day (she's in her 60's), she misses him. Even as a married woman, having my father there for me to provide emotional support, encouragement means a lot to me. Someday when I have children, I can't wait for them to get to know my father. If he were to die for some reason, it would always leave a hole in my life. And YET....hearing you talk like that from a father's perspective....it really saddens me that a father can be so selfish and not give a sh*t about how his daughter would feel if he were to die. Its hearbreaking to see that for a man, following this so-called cultural belief is more important than the feelings/needs of the wife/children.

[Muzna]

Re: Huge fight with husband

Taking money from a married daughter is not considered honourable in Pakistani culture.

Why?
I think if you explore the reason behind this "cultural norm" you'll arrive at the answer to why this is so very wrong.
Problem is that most people do not question....they blindly follow.

I know that if needed my parents, both mother and father, would have taken food from their own mouths to feed me when I was hungry.........would I not want to slit my own throat if I had to watch them suffer while I live in comfort?

[chips6]

Re: Huge fight with husband

Behan aur beti ko hamesha detay hain..un se letay nahin....

Here is the cause of more than half of our social issues.

[bebo]

Re: Huge fight with husband

I'm not sure how this is in any way relevant to this thread. Do you know any man or woman who financially supports parents DESPITE the parents not actually needing it? Personally, I don't. If my parents didn't have a need for outside financial assistance, then why would I waste my time/energy worrying about it?

Having a brother doesn't somehow exempt me from making sure that my parents NEEDS are met. If I had a brother who insisted on taking 100% financial responsiblity for my parents and could do so while still taking care of his own family (ie. wife/kids), then by all means I'd let him. If he couldn't do it 100%, then I'd allow him to do whatever he felt he could do, and do the rest myself. Or if my brother was a jerk who just chose to not help, then I'd step in and do it.

But I wouldn't have an "expectation" that my brother bear 100% of the financial burden just b/c he's a man. Whether its a daughter or son, both share equal responsibility to take care of their parents.

Again, this is no different than what a man would feel. My in-laws are wealthy and will never need any money from anyone. My husband and his brother do not support them in any way OR even worry about it....b/c they know for a fact that financially, their parents have more than enough. I don't know any man who feels any financial responsiblity towards his parents IF he knows for a fact that his parents do not need any financial assistance. This shouldn't be any different for women. This feeling of financial responsiblity comes from the knowledge that the parents actually need outside help to meet their needs.

Yes I do know men who contribute to the household knowing that their parents really don’t need money. They feel that parents have this right over them just like their wives and kids have this right.
My question was very much related to the thread since big claims are being made and judgment passing around.

[bebo]

Re: Huge fight with husband

Why? I think if you explore the reason behind this "cultural norm" you'll arrive at the answer to why this is so very wrong. Problem is that most people do not question....they blindly follow.

I know that if needed my parents, both mother and father, would have taken food from their own mouths to feed me when I was hungry.........would I not want to slit my own throat if I had to watch them suffer while I live in comfort?

What is the reason Muzna?
What my understanding is that in our culture and for that matter many around the world, men are always considered the bread winner and head of household. Also women were not used to work outside their homes but only in dire need. So the norm dictates that since the daughter is being married off to a man who will take care of her and also his own parents and siblings, it is putting extra pressure on him if he has to give money to wife’s parents as well.

[Paheli00]

Re: Huge fight with husband

Yes I do know men who contribute to the household knowing that their parents really don’t need money. They feel that parents have this right over them just like their wives and kids have this right. My question was very much related to the thread since big claims are being made and judgment passing around.

I disagree on the relevant part but that's ok. Not a big deal. :)

If men are living with their parents (ie. joint family situation), and insists on contributing to the household expenses, then I don't see any issues for it.

But for the purposes of this thread, let's say that the man lives separately from the parents, and regularly sends money to his parents even though he knows for a fact that the parents have no need for it.

SO......

Judgments are being passed on parents who accept money from married daughters in their time of NEED.

What judgment do we pass on parents who accept money from their son even though they don't need it? Without any actual NEED, the parents choose to take money away from the man's wife/kids. After all, they could refuse and insist that their son keep the money, and give it when its needed.

[Decent_6Chora]

Re: Huge fight with husband

oops. I used my daughter’s last year’s Eidi in buying my tablet. Seems like I am not honorable

On Serious note:
I love my daughter so much that I wont stop her from earning sawab by helping me (after marriage) if God forbid I need help. Why should we restrain daughters from earning this sawab if there is a need? why should this sawab goes to sons only?

I am so proud of my mom who helped my nani for years because mamu was not well off. Of course my mom could not have done with without the help/backing of my father. My mom was a working women. She spent good part of her income on Nani (healthcare, food, clothing etc etc). In addition to that my father used to help Nani a lot too. I am so blessed for having such mom and dad.

[bebo]

Re: Huge fight with husband

@Paheli ... You failed to see the relevance and thats oky too.

On a second thought, I get that its not possible to properly comprehend a hypothetical question in such scenario. What one feel and do in real life is different than what one think he would do.

[Reha]

Re: Huge fight with husband

^ If my parents had a son and never needed my help...I'd still try to be there in anyway I could.

Financially is just one way.

I think these (not you bebo) are probably the same people who push and believe in other society evils like jahaiz and such.

Betiyon ko dete hein...unse lete nahin hein.

To jab shaadi hogi, beti ko bhar bhar ke dena takay susraal mein uski kuch izzat banay.

Kyun ke ye jo bartan aur air condeeeshnar hai na...in hi cheezon se aurat ki izzat banti hai. Vo khud akalay izzat ke qabil thori hai.

Anyway, I hope and pray that someday we are rid of this jihalat and can move past it.

[MM]

Re: Huge fight with husband

Reha!!! @ “air condeeeshnar”

Are you kidding me? LOL… This is still going on?
I understand everyone has their own morals and values, but how hard headed can you be?!?!

Unless you’re just being an annoying troll now, how can you be so proud of the fact that you’ve got the mentality that dads in the pinds and villages don’t have any more (for the most part).