Homosexuality

[quote]
Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
**

One of the reasons Allah said that we should marry the opposite sex is to produce children and increase the population of the world. Ok, but nowadays, there are a lot of people who are marrying but not having any kids.
**
[/quote]

NO I think you'll find muslims marry and have kids unless biologically impossible. Then they adopt....still not legal for homosexuals to adopt.

I have no sympathy for bisexual people this really is a fad and fancy ...snap out of it. Imagine if you were a gay muslim male!!!!!

Get a grip when speaking of your own sexual confusion, however concerns expressed about homosexual people are real....muslim scholars can give guidence.

hello all
Perosnally I think that I am a lesbian but i can not understand how two man can have sex with each other . As far as islam goes . clearly they have asked us to treat homos as mentally sick people and they should be looked after . It's stopped for obvious reasons of reproduction . Now that science can produce an offspring from the pair of the same sex but think about the victim here how would you feel if you are the one who has two mothers but no father or 2 father but no mother.
I think those who do n't understand this are naive.

sarah dear,
i dont plan to stop homosexuals and i dont care what others think of Allah's commands....
i told u that was the reason why I (meaning me armughal) think its wrong....

how i can stop such a person in my neighborhood - i dont live in usa i live in a muslims world where society still has a meaning....

and if u give any respect to Allah's commands u shud stop this....

i cant waste my time trying to stop some FOOLS from doing this....

and hey marriage is obselete maybe in ur part of the world....
Islam still doesnt allow it and as muslims I dont think we shud have any oter viewpoint other than Islam....

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sarah as long as you dont act on your fantacies, you r fine, you wont be sent to hell for that....so any time you get those feelings, just read an ayat from quran (if you want to stop those evil thoughts) and also, start fasting, inshallah allah SWT will cure your mind and heart. you might enjoy those feelings but if you want to follow teachings of islam, then atleast TRY to end ur feelings towards same sex. the rest is upto ALLAH SWT the most merciful. and protaliban, you know that what taliban would do to you if you were in afghansitan? and ur icon is of male but u claim to be lesbian, whats the deal???

Thanks, Thandy Mazak. Yeah, what is the deal with proTaliban?

[quote]
Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
**Protaliban, I had only a dad for some time before he remarried, I think two dads would be better than one any day.

As for marrying and always producing children, there are some couples who don't want to have any. Not all Muslim couples marry just to have kids, so heterosexual marriages are not necessary. With today's technology, you can still have homosexual marriages and have children too.

As for talking to Muslim scholars, the ones I know would just freak out and tell my parents and then my parents would slaughter me for Eid, even though I ain't precious. So that's impossible. As for stopping these kind of feelings, kinda hard. Just like you can't force yourself to start liking people of the same sex. homosexuals can't force themselves to lust after people of the opposite sex. homosexuality is a result of years of upbringing that are hard to undo.

**
[/quote]

I think children need balance in their upbringing, male and female nurturing qualities. This is the battle same sex couples will be fighting in courts of law. I re-iterate being biasexual is not the same as being heterosexual. As far as I can see, you personally do not have a problem...find a man you like and marry him simple!!.

I know Thap, i’ve got it made

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


Splendor is lost

Dear Sarah,
I think it's interesting how you profess your sexual orientation and your faith in Islam in the same sentence. True, only Allah knows whats in our hearts, and you may be on his good side. But one thing is certain in Islam, and that is that homosexuality in any extreme, is prohibited.
If you say that you are a Muslim, then Im hoping you also believe in the sayings of the Prophet (may peace be upon him) and the Holy Quran, which every Muslim believes to be Allah's words.
If you do believe in these things, then I don't understand how you can deny Allah's words when He refers to homosexuality as lewdness and wickedness. It's basically a sin to act upon it.
Now here me out if you wish, but I'm not in any way condoning people who abuse others. So attacking a gay person physcially or verbally I think is wrong. But to warn a gay person, specifically someone who says their Muslim is ok.
In my opinion, the human mind is capable of doing great things. We've all studied about the Id and Super Ego and all that psychology stuff. Our brains are capable of thinking anything. Whether we act on those thoughts is totally a different story.
Perhaps you are justifying homosexuality, because it satisfies your needs and desires. But a lot of things can satisfy our needs. But not all the time, are they the right things to act upon.
When we get angry at someone, real bad, we wanna hit em or hurt them in some way, but dont act on it, cause we know its wrong and uncivilized in Islam. When we're really hungry, we wanna just grab something off the store shelf and take it. But we don't do it cause we know its a sin to steal.
We all have needs and desires, and why not act on them? We're human and we need to satisfy them. However, if you believe in the concept of religion and then further into the teachings of Islam, then you have to put your trust in God's words and guidance and cooperate by His rules and guidelines.
Sometimes, we feel rules are restricting. But even a free society has rules. Rules are ok to follow, they guide us on the right track.
I think homosexuality is one of those things that God gave us a rule against. He knows its not good for us, spritually or physically, and so we have to put our trust in His words.
It's one of the hardest things to do, is to put all your trust in everything He's provided for us to know. But that's just the whole essence of faith.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from here, and I wish you well.

Lulu, although I don't agree with suddenly putting a stop to homosexuality because I don't think that is possible, thanks for that very inspirational, uh, post.


I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real
- NIN

when I said I am lesbian ,lol, I can n't help it .okay . That was meant to be a joke remember that saradar ji one .I have got a man's icon because I am one . I can n't belive you both dumb heads missed the point .
Plus no offense but you obviously seem to be having troubles with your mother sarah.That has got nothing to do with homosexuality.
Take care

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acha acha…well thats bad about internet…its hard to figure out what the tone is of the people when they joke around…and especiall in corner room..so i took u seriously…any way ,its nice to have a third taliban lover in this forum…was getting tired of taliban bashing here…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

I work (transcribe) for 5 pathologists here in the US and they all say the X Y chromosomes are the factors of being born a male or female. It’s true, that homosexuals are really born that way. They can’t help it. It’s no one’s fault. No one should hate them for being born that way. When my kids grow up, I would hope they wouldn’t turn out to be gay, but if they do, I wouldn’t love them any less, because I know it would be because they couldn’t help it; thats the way their were born. We all start off with X chromosome (XX which is female) and (XY which is male). The SRY gene plays the key step in switching that X to a Y. Some switch totally (men who or not gay) and some still carry the X trait (which might be bi-sexual) and works the same for homosexual woman as well. Besides the male/female traites, rare cases, about 1 in 2,000, are born with both male and female genitals. I’ve seen two babies this year born with both genitals and the Pathologist has to go and get samples to study if they have more female or male traits to determine for the surgeon as to which one to fix.

Their study below is what happens to the X and Y chromosomes during birth.

The complete set of chromosomes in the cells of an organism is its karyotype.

The karyotype of the human female contains 23 pairs of homologous chromosomes:

22 pairs of autosomes
-1 pair of X chromosomes

The karyotype of the human male contains:

the same 22 pairs of autosomes
-one X chromosome
-one Y chromosome

(A gene on the Y chromosome designated SRY is the master switch for making a male.)

What is the evidence?

On very rare occasions aneuploid humans are born with such karyotypes as XXY, XXXY, and even XXXXY. Despite their extra X chromosomes, all these cases are male.
(and thus, they should be female), however, they have a male phenotype. This is because they are transgenic for SRY. Fertilized XX eggs were injected with DNA carrying the SRY gene.

Another rarity: XX humans with testicular tissue because a translocation has placed the SRY gene on one of the X chromosomes
Still another rarity that demonstrates the case: women with an XY karyotype who, despite their Y chromosome, are female because of a destructive mutation in SRY.

The X chromosome carries hundreds of genes but few, if any, of these have anything to do directly with sex. However, the inheritance of these genes follows special rules. These arise because males have only a single X chromosome almost all the genes on the X have no counterpart on the Y; thus
any gene on the X, even if recessive in females, will be expressed in males.
Genes inherited in this fashion are described as sex-linked or, more precisely, X-linked.

X-Inactivation
Human females inherit two copies of every gene on the X chromosome, whereas males inherit only one (with 18 exceptions: the 9 pseudoautosomal genes and the 9 “housekeeping” genes found on the Y).

During interphase, chromosomes are too tenuous to be stained and seen by light microscopy. However, a dense, stainable structure, called a Barr body is seen in the interphase nuclei of female mammals. The Barr body is one of the X chromosomes. Its compact appearance reflects its inactivity. So, the cells of females have only one functioning copy of each X-linked gene - the same as males.

X-inactivation occurs early in embryonic development. In a given cell, which of a female’s X chromosomes becomes inactivated and converted into a Barr body is a matter of chance. After inactivation has occurred, all the descendants of that cell will have the same chromosome inactivated. The X-inactivation creates clones with differing effective gene content. An organism whose cells vary in effective gene content and hence in the expression of a trait, is called a genetic mosaic.

Mechanism of X-inactivation
Inactivation of an X chromosome requires a gene on that chromosome called XIST.

XIST encodes a large molecule of RNA. XIST RNA accumulates along the X chromosome containing the active XIST gene and proceeds to inactivate all, or almost all of the other hundreds of genes on that chromosome.
XIST RNA does not travel over to any other X chromosome in the nucleus.
Barr bodies are inactive X chromosomes “painted” with XIST RNA.
During the first steps of embryonic development of the female, the XIST locus on each of her two X chromosomes is expressed but the XIST RNA is quickly broken down. Then something happens to tip the balance in favor of one or the other of the X chromosomes. Transcription continues on one of the X chromosomes, leading to an accumulation of XIST RNA and converting that chromosome into an inactive Barr body.
Transcription of XIST ceases on the other X chromosome allowing all of its hundreds of other genes to be expressed. The shut-down of the XIST locus on the active X chromosome is done by methylating XIST regulatory sequences. DNA methylation usually results in gene repression so methylation permanently blocks XIST expression and permits the continued expression of all the other X-linked genes.
X-inactivation in the female embryo appears to be entirely random. There is no predicting whether it will be the maternal X or the paternal X that is inactivated in a given cell. But that is not the case for her extraembryonic membranes (that go on to form the amnion, placenta, and umbilical cord). In all the cells of the extraembryonic membranes, it is father’s X chromosome that is inactivated.

Some genes on the X chromosome escape inactivation.

X-Chromosome Abnormalities:
People are sometimes found with abnormal numbers of X chromosomes. Unlike most cases of aneuploidy, which are lethal, the phenotypic effects of aneuploidy of the X chromosome are usually not severe. Examples:
Turner’s syndrome: females with but a single X chromosome. The phenotypic effect is mild because their cells have a single functioning X chromosome like those of XX females. Number of Barr bodies = zero.
XXX, XXXX, XXXXX karyotypes: all females with mild phenotypic effects because in each cell all the extra X chromosomes are inactivated. Number of Barr bodies = number of X chromosomes minus one.

Klinefelter’s syndrome: people with XXY or XXXY karyotypes are males (because of their Y chromosome). But again, the phenotypic effects of the extra X chromosomes are mild because, just as in females, the extra Xs are inactivated and converted into Barr bodies.

I hope this helps you guys understand. I transcribe daily and it makes sense to me working in Pathology. Really, these people, I’m sure didn’t ask to be born that way, but by chance, their chromosome makeup didn’t switch over. It’s not their fault; nor anyone elses; it’s the way they were born.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

So what are we to believe?
Homosexuality is such a big sin in Islam, its hard to believe that God would intentionally make a few people gay, and then condemn them to hell because of their sexual orientation; which according to you was thrusted upon them.


-Building From Scratch-

Okay please end this topic about gay and lesbians ... its a SIN in Islam .. PERIOD Now if you want to write your own Quran, thats fine!

Aatif


"Real Programmers always confuse Christmas and Halloween because Oct31 == Dec25" -Andrew Rutherford

[quote]
Originally posted by Scratch:
**So what are we to believe?
Homosexuality is such a big sin in Islam, its hard to believe that God would intentionally make a few people gay, and then condemn them to hell because of their sexual orientation; which according to you was thrusted upon them.

**
[/quote]

I don't think when he created them,that he was making them gay. People are born with defects such as blind, deaf, siamese twins, dwarfs, I've seen babies here at the hospital born with heads bigger than their body. Others are born with hyaline membrane disease usually in twins such as myself where the lung tissue doesn't open up until the 9th month of pregnancy (which twins are born during the 8th month - 1 month early) therefore, they can't breath on their own. Its strange and no one knows how it happens, maybe their were born too early and the chromosomes didn't switch, maybe during the mothers pregnancy something triggered it, maybe the father during conception triggered it somehow. No one knows why it happens, why people aren't born normal and healthy but as you probably already know, many are born defected with a life threatening disease, twins connected at the head, heart, etc.; it happens. Maybe what God meant was like adultry, etc, we know not to do it and if we choose that path, then we are sinning. Maybe if we are not born homosexual and later you choose to be with someone of the same sex, just on your own like other sins such as lying and adultry, etc, then we would be sinning. I don't understand it either, if they are born that way, how can they be sinning?

So personally, knowing that they are born homosexual because of their chromosomes they are born with, I can't tell them whats right and whats wrong, but to let them choose whats best for their life and respect them, they are human just like the rest of us.

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I agree, you can’t switch like that. If your attracted to a certain kind of person where that be a certain race-nationality, or male or female, you just are. You have to do whats best for you and no one has any right condemning anyone afterall, that’s God’s final say, not ours. B-KooL!! and Take Care.

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Man this is the strangest arguement. Ok I'm gonna say that a good 1/5 of the population at my school is gay... so I've learned to deal with it. It all boils down to religion, as all things do. I'm not Islam and (I'm gonna get flamed for saying this) I can't believe in a God, any God, that can comdemn a person for something beyond their control. Poeple don't just choose to be gay, I'm sure some poeple would really not like to be, and it's no reason to hate them. It's like... I was born a girl, which I had no control over, but it makes me no less than a man. I guess all I'm trying to say is that there is enough hate floating around this world and we don't need anymore. Maybe it's a sin to be gay, but does Allah say anything about having to hate gays and lesbians because they are?