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I didn't say anything about media. I merely raised a question that is deviant sexual behavior (homo- and bi-sexuality) curable or not? Can a homo-sexual person become a 'straight' person and live a normal family life? And if s/he can, then what is stopping them?
I believe homo-sexuality is nothing new, and has been a phenomenon since ancient times. Many earlier nations indulged in this activity. However it has never been condoned by any divine faith. Don't you think there are good reasons why that is so?
Why is there such a high number of people 'coming out of the closet' in recent times? Is it because, it is something different and many people want to be 'different'? Is it really because of complex psychological problems of childhood? Many scientists will disagree with you on this.
[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited October 23, 2001).]
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So, homo-sexuality is a mental state?
Let me give you two examples to clariy my thought-process.
Suppose I meet two people. One of them is mentally retarded since childhood. Cannot form a coherent sentence. Doctors are treating him, but no avail. What will I feel about him? Even though it is difficult to stay in his company, I will still feel compassion towards him and will help him as much as I can. I realize he has no control over his mental state.
The other person I meet is always in a state of anger. He yells at people all the time and is a cynic and bitter person. I feel anger can be controlled through anger-management and as such I feel this person should get treatment. He can become a normal person, but chooses not to. If that is the case, I may chose not to do anything with that person. I may not even respect him. Because giving respect to someone is entirely my choice.
Similarly, with homo-sexuals. If I feel that they can get rid of this behavior and these people want to stick to homo-sexuality, while I give them the right to do whatever they chose with their lives, I have the same right not to respect them or not to associate with them, if I choose.
You asked if a friend of mine tells me that s/he is homo-sexual, what will be my reaction. First of all, it has never happened. Second, I am a firm believer in "a man is known by the company he keeps", and as such, whoever I befriend should be the one with whom I share my values. And, therefore, I will reduce the friendship to acquintanceship. However, if someone in my office is homo-sexual, I don't have a choice, but to continue to deal with him. They will not be my friend, but they are my colleague, nevertheless. Same with neighbors and other associations which are more by fate then by choice.
However, if someone in my family and friends decide they are homo-sexuals, then because I care about them, I will try to convince them to get over it and be normal. If they persist in their "freedom of choice" then frankly speaking I will have nothing to do with them. If God's curse is on someone, then I can't be friends with them. Thats the way I look at it.
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Well, may be you didn't read carefully what I wrote.
Earlier you had said "we must treat them with the same respect (or something close to that nyway) that we would somebody else". And I had responded that it is not true. It is upto us to respect or not to respect someone. You or anyone can not force me to respect someone. Can you? And whether I respect homosexuals or not is my business. However, I do agree that homosexuals can do whatever they want with their lives.
You said "Tell me, Pristine, why you are so biased against homosexuals? What they do is in the privacy of their bedrooms. If you believe they are sinning, then they are the ones who are sinning and they will be quesioned for their acts. Why should you care so much?"
First, if someone doesn't tell me they are homosexuals, then I won't know, and so it doesn't concern me. If what they do in their bedroom is their concern, then they should leave it there. If they chose to announce it, then they should be prepared that folks will treat them based on their personal feelings about this issue. And yes, they are sinning. Not me.
And subsequently, you said "why should I care about them so much". I don't. I don't care about homosexuals and bisexuals of the world. Heck! I live 30 mins from gay and lesbian capital of the world (SF) and if I started worrying about all such people,I'd be living a miserable life. No, I don't try to correct all homosexuals I meet on the street. I had said that I will only try to help those who are my friends and family. No one else.
Sins have different levels. Staring at women and indulging in illicit sex are both sins, but of different magnitudes.
I have always had great difficulty trying to accurately express how I feel on the subject.
Pristine has done it very succinctly and I agree with his views.
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You are again jumping the gun. No where did I say “I hate them”. Hate is a very strong emotion, and I always use it with extreme caution.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Sex is good and natural and all that, but call me old-fashioned, I believe the beauty of sex is because it is something so personal, to be shared with your spouse. Not with the rest of the world.
As regards my feelings for homosexuals or bisexuals. I don’t respect them, but that shouldn’t bother them. Similarly I don’t respect those who lie repeatedly. I don’t see them hanging themselves, just because someone doesn’t respect them. We all make choices in our lives and we should learn to live with them.
With a homo- and bi-sexual, just like a compulsive liar, I believe they can get over this fixation, if they wish. If they chose not to, its their choice.
At the same time, I don’t hate them. Call it indifference. But I’d definitely not be a close friend with a homosexual.
Do you specialize in inventing wrong meanings or is it something natural?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
I didn’t say SF is a crime-ridden city. I had said it is the proclaimed capital of Gays and Lesbians, with 36% of all unmarried couples of same sex. Thats the highest proportion anywhere in the world. They also have the world-famous Annual Gays and Lesbians parade. Does it make it crime-ridden? No, unless the government outlaws same-sex relationship. And since it is not a crime in USA to have same sex relationships, so, I couldn’t care less.
Coming back to your first post, u said “Most of my friends are not straight and I’m a bi”. This just reinforces my point of view that a person should associate with those who share his/her values. My values are different than yours so my circle of friends is different and so is my criteria for respect.
You said Being bi or a homosexual shoudn’t send me to hell.
Frankly, its only Allah who decides who will go to heaven or hell. Me or you won’t decide it. However, Allah has given clear instructions on these issues. Some people just decide to ignore those and hope for mercy on the day of judgement. One day, each of us will know who chose unwisely.
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BTW, Pristine, you never said why you, uh, DISRESPECTED homosexuals so much. How about the rest of you guys?
Splendor is lost
[quote]
Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
**Hey ppl. I was going over old threads and I read the one on pk taz and homosexuality in Images. All of us fight out against racism or at least say its bad and stuff but we still can't sympathize with people who are different like us, i.e. homosexual or bisexual? Wierd. Most of my friends are not straight and I'm a bi, although a bit more on the heterosexual side, but I'm still a Muslim and believe in Islam with all my heart. Being bi or a homosexual shoudn't send me to hell.
**
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Yeaha, If hetrosexuality is not immoral(with committed person) than being homo is not immoral either. It is personal choice, I actually hate it but still I belive that people should have a right to do what they want as long as it does not offend other.
If Islam condemns homosexuality who are we to reform the Quran? prophets? no we must all bear our burdens and use Islam to ease our short passage through life.
We will all be judged soon. In my opinion further disscussion on this topic is fruitless, with the advent of shows like Oprah et al it's acceptable to disscus and air views on everything from the zit on your nads to the mole on your tits. Just stop it and get some humility!!!!
Be what you are....ask advice from religios teachers on this matter if it worries you so!!! I have homosexual freinds who are muslims that did this. Their lives are battles...there is no easy way to mix homosexualtiy with Islam. Many men marry knowing they dont find women attractive just out of duty.....is this right?
In this MTV, popcorn...credit card culture everyone eants instant satisfaction and total acceptance to anything they do...what next???
I have urges to murder...and it's all the rage....is it ok in Islam to do so? Sorry bit harsh homosexuality in my eyes is not a crime....but a burden.
My contribution: Islam has unambigiously prohibited homosexuality as a sinful and abominable act. So follow your religion instead of trying to justify homosexuality or indulging into useless discussions.
What Allah does with homosexuals in the herafter is His business and He knows that only. This shouldn't affect your opinion on the matter in this world, whatsoever, keeping in mind the story about the people of Loot mentioned in the Holy Quran.
sarah, there i no way i can respect homo or bi people....
and a very good reason for that is that the Quran has described it as a wrond doing....
and just like we cant respect other wrong-doers we cant respect them....
the act they do is not natural and not normal....
we can easily classify such people as abnormal....
and abnormal peolpe my dear, deserve pity and not respect....
the best we can do for them is try to get them out of it....
and if they think there is nothing wrong with what they do, then we know that it is better to keep away from such people....
i wud never even let a homo live in te area i live....
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"I don't see why sex should be so different from saying casually to someone, I need to piss.
Professing sexual"
Most of slick willy .like you ,try to draw people into simili ,which ppl. without agreeing buy into it
NOTHING IS SAME AS ANOTHER THING >
Sex is sex ,Piss is Piss
You can pee alone ,can you have real sex alone????????????????
No body hates you ,If ppl. hasted you or like you you would be extinct ,but im seeing you are winning MORE CONVERTS than any other religous group including Islam which is the Fastest growing religion number wise .
I do feel there is somthing in you which you cannot control.Sort of insanity defence of crime.But you know what not even 0.000001 % of insane ppl. are let go on that basis GO FIGURE !!
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